Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[Nachosdelux]

This policy just encourages the senior crowd to long for 69 again, which is a young person's game.

[hcat]

29 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

My state (Washington) reported 421 deaths from Corona through April 7.  92% of the people who died were age 60 or older.  These figures present a stark reality -- a viral infection like COVID kills far more seniors than people in younger age brackets.

 

The seniors on this page who deny their at-risk status are whistling past the proverbial graveyard (no pun intended).

 

Some do  act like they are invincible but the data is there.

I def get it but they shoud  give Srs who cant get the med clearance , a refund in lieu of the FCC..

 

Our cruise fun is probably done,, ..even more so being not so thrilled with   Celeb recenty.  We are lucky to have enjoyed  many cruises in the more luxurious days!

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, alwaysonaship said:

A question, we are both over 70 and have normal health issues that are under good control. We do have some on the list. Before COVID-19 was an issue we booked New Zealand Jan 2021. Now I don’t think we would pass the test in terms of do we have any of those things. So do we cancel..certainly not going to make final payment..if they are cruising then anyway, but a future cc would have no value as what we have isn’t going to go away. 
 

Sorry to ramble.  

If your Dr checks you and fills out the form that you are in sufficient shape, than plan on cruising. No one on this thread should be giving you any medical advice on what level of your issue is. the list is very general and the Dr is the ‘decider’ from how i understand it. The cruise line isn’t going to ask if you have any of those issues and if you have any, stop you. They have the list as what the Dr is suppose to check. Make sense?

 

Den

[alwaysonaship]

Well I will agree the advise on this thread is poor, I am curious as we have a $900 refundable deposit which the 70 thing went into effect after we booked. So if they say we cannot go is our deposit refundable. I will say we are in better shape than most 40 year olds.. not fat, don’t smoke and we travel constantly..until lately. 

[mek]

1 hour ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

My state (Washington) reported 421 deaths from Corona through April 7.  92% of the people who died were age 60 or older.  These figures present a stark reality -- a viral infection like COVID kills far more seniors than people in younger age brackets.

 

The seniors on this page who deny their at-risk status are whistling past the proverbial graveyard (no pun intended).

 

Just to set the record straight - I'm not complaining about the the rule - I and many others are complaining that we currently can't get a refund for a cruise, ( in my case which  was booked last October for Nov 2020), where we are not going to be allowed to board.  And that is BS.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by mek

[Flatbush Flyer]

51 minutes ago, JonnyCT81 said:

This is not a Celebrity policy - this policy was enacted by CLIA. Other lines are following the same protocols as Celebrity.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/industry-proposes-people-over-70-171330071.html

This has been the case since early March, so it's nothing new. For those who are claiming "age discrimination" - discrimination has to have some malice intent behind it. If a ride at an amusement park says if you're under 13 you can't go on the the roller coaster, am I supposed to say to my niece that she is being discriminated against? They are doing it because based on all current knowledge THE OLDER YOU ARE, THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO DIE FROM THIS DISEASE. Until there is some sort of vaccine or cure, the cruise lines will not take responsibility for your safety against this illness.

These private companies are protecting themselves from litigation (as is their right as a private corporation).



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

To the best of my knowledge, few (if any) premium/luxury lines are requiring MD letters for folks over 70 y.o., which we all know would be industrial suicide. Even the CDC et al. Govt agencies have steered clear of any mandated embarkation restrictions based on age.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships_Extension_4-9-20-encrypted.pdf

 

 BTW: As for death rate statistics: While 70+% of Covid -19 related deaths in the US since February 2020 are attributed to the 65+ age group, that same frequency is currently found for pneumonia and influenza. 

 

And while I by no means want to diminish the severity of the damage that can be done by Covid-19 (now and in the future), let's try to maintain a sense of perspective. Are you aware that, for example, while California today has approx 20,000 confirmed Covid-19 diagnoses, that represents 0.04% of the 40 million citizens?

 

At the bottom line, I see little justification for an MD letter requirement only for senior citizens. 

 

 

 

[Denny01]

11 minutes ago, mek said:

Just to set the record straight - I'm not complaining about the the rule - I and many others are complaining that we currently can't get a refund for a cruise, ( in my case which  was booked last October for Nov 2020), where we are not going to be allowed to board.  And that is BS.

 

Again, you are saying you’d cruise (pandemic or not) if your Dr wouldn’t fill out the form thinking you are not well enough? Have you looked at the form?? If your Dr wouldn’t fill this out, your shouldn’t be cruising. If your Dr has told you they won’t sign it, then get their statement, send it to your TA and let them work it out with X. 

 

 

 

 

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

If your Dr wouldn’t fill this out, your shouldn’t be cruising. 

That may be so in some cases but by no means all. I've had a coronary bypass and several stents inserted several years, ironically before I reached age 70, but both my GP and cardiologist believe that I am perfectly fit to cruise. They would be more than happy to attest that I'm fit to cruise. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect either one to sign off on the form certifying that I don't suffer from a chronic disease, nor would I ask them to.

[alwaysonaship]

Well it is a total CYA IMHO

[Denny01]

15 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

That may be so in some cases but by no means all. I've had a coronary bypass and several stents inserted several years, ironically before I reached age 70, but both my GP and cardiologist believe that I am perfectly fit to cruise. They would be more than happy to attest that I'm fit to cruise. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect either one to sign off on the form certifying that I don't suffer from a chronic disease, nor would I ask them to.

I think the point of the form is the Dr attesting the person is fit to cruise. But obviously I’m not the person signing it. My wife had open heart surgery for a valve job. She’s in great shape and her Dr will sign it. 
 

all this is between a Dr and a cruiser. 
 

den 

[Flatbush Flyer]

29 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Again, you are saying you’d cruise (pandemic or not) if your Dr wouldn’t fill out the form thinking you are not well enough? Have you looked at the form?? If your Dr wouldn’t fill this out, your shouldn’t be cruising. If your Dr has told you they won’t sign it, then get their statement, send it to your TA and let them work it out with X. 

 

 

 

 

"Susceptible to complications?" No physician in their right mind would sign that statement for someone 70+ without far more examination, labs and related diagnostic testing than would be covered by an annual Medicare "wellness" exam.

The real lunacy comes to light when you think about how many folks under 70 don't regularly (if ever) see an MD and who may have numerous undiagnosed issues that would put them at the top of the list of "susceptible" individuals.

FWIW, I continue to believe that a major reason for the note requirement is the industry's attempt to make ends meet by forcing seniors to move their business from the low end lines to the upper end lines in their corporate "good/better/best" family (where no notes are required).

[Denny01]

Unfortunately for the opinion of driving Seniors to ‘upper end’ it’s supported by what’s going on for ‘upper end’ cruising. The Silverseas requires a similar form. 

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

I think the point of the form is the Dr attesting the person is fit to cruise. But obviously I’m not the person signing it. My wife had open heart surgery for a valve job. She’s in great shape and her Dr will sign it. 
 

all this is between a Dr and a cruiser. 
 

den 

I agree, they are looking for the doctor to say the person is fit to cruise. Unfortunately, the "I hereby certify..." paragraph adds an unnecessary level of complication. If her doctor will sign off knowing that she has had a valve job, good for you two, but I suspect that most doctors are risk averse and wouldn't sign. JMO.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Unfortunately for the opinion of driving Seniors to ‘upper end’ it’s supported by what’s going on for ‘upper end’ cruising. The Silverseas requires a similar form. 

No such requirement on Regent or Oceania and I'm betting it will stay that way, particularly with the swelling of the ranks of Celebrity seniors Who already have been making a move to premium lines over the past few years.

[madmacs]

My next cruise is due to be in October 2020, 3 days after my seventieth birthday. Current UK government advice is not to travel at all. We don't have to decide what to do until final payment is due in July and later still if Celebrity change their policy on cancellations 48 hours to include October cruises. If still in force the doctor's certificate is another check. I don't mind having a form as it is useful to know if my doctor thinks I am fit to travel. I guess travelling without his agreement might invalidate my travel insurance, if not for this cruise then in future as it is a certainty that insurance companies will tighten their policies. The whole business is very uncertain.

 

[mek]

27 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

"Susceptible to complications?" No physician in their right mind would sign that statement for someone 70+ without far more examination, labs and related diagnostic testing than would be covered by an annual Medicare "wellness" exam.

The real lunacy comes to light when you think about how many folks under 70 don't regularly (if ever) see an MD and who may have numerous undiagnosed issues that would put them at the top of the list of "susceptible" individuals.

FWIW, I continue to believe that a major reason for the note requirement is the industry's attempt to make ends meet by forcing seniors to move their business from the low end lines to the upper end lines in their corporate "good/better/best" family (where no notes are required).

Well, exactly - suddenly I am required to have a doctor certify I can cruise because I am turning 70 in July, which means at the very least I have to pay for a visit to my doctor and at the worst a complete physical, including blood work?  No thank you - I'm simply not doing that. It wasn't a requirement when I booked the cruise, so for now, just give me a refund.

[DaveSJ711]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

And while I by no means want to diminish the severity of the damage that can be done by Covid-19 (now and in the future), let's try to maintain a sense of perspective. Are you aware that, for example, while California today has approx 20,000 confirmed Covid-19 diagnoses, that represents 0.04% of the 40 million citizens?

 

 

I watch Gov. Cuomo's daily news conferences regarding New York State's efforts to care for COVID patients.  This morning, he updated the state's reported cases and deaths.  He said, and I quote:  "And to put it into perspective, 2,753 people lost their lives on 9/11.  We're at 7,844.  So in terms of lives lost, that this situation should exceed 9/11 is still beyond my capacity to fully appreciate to tell you the truth."

 

Yes, perspective matters.

[tallfir]

I am only 66 and not currently required to get the doctor's note. However, I have dealt with minor respiratory health issues all my life. It is a simple decision for me. I will never take a cruise again unless an approved and successful vaccine is developed and I get the vaccine. That assumes that I will be alive when the vaccine becomes available.

[Jimbo59]

We have all seen individuals (middle age, under 70) on cruises who are morbidly obese. Should these people also be required to have a Doctor’s note to cruise?

[LorraineP]

3 hours ago, mek said:

Just to set the record straight - I'm not complaining about the the rule - I and many others are complaining that we currently can't get a refund for a cruise, ( in my case which  was booked last October for Nov 2020), where we are not going to be allowed to board.  And that is BS.

 

Exactly BS

[ldubs]

43 minutes ago, Jimbo59 said:

We have all seen individuals (middle age, under 70) on cruises who are morbidly obese. Should these people also be required to have a Doctor’s note to cruise?

 

Or, put another way, should a BMI of 30 or greater not be allowed to board.   

[LorraineP]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Or, put another way, should a BMI of 30 or greater not be allowed to board.   

Yes. That leaves a good percentage unable to board. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by LorraineP

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, LorraineP said:

Probably not. That leaves a good percentage unable to board. 

 

Possibly.  But you know if the real intent is to identify people at risk, then  . . .   

 

I think I tend to agree with some previous comments that this policy of doctor's notes for 70+ year olds was more of a window dressing to appease some authority.   I would be surprised if it doesn't disappear.  But then, it is just a wild guess on my part.  

[Ronin23]

Amazing to see how many people here that are over 70 and think it’s still ok to cruise because either they don’t think it will happen to them or think they are fit and well and will be ok.
 

Until there is a vaccine for this virus you are simply playing a form of Russian roulette by going on a cruise and there is a very good chance you will either get very sick or worse. 
 

Forget what was happening before the virus, that time is gone. Simple fact is that over 70 you are in the highest risk bracket and I can’t believe that sipping a cocktail or stuffing your face at the buffet is worse risking your life’s over. 

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, mek said:

Just to set the record straight - I'm not complaining about the the rule - I and many others are complaining that we currently can't get a refund for a cruise, ( in my case which  was booked last October for Nov 2020), where we are not going to be allowed to board.  And that is BS.

 

 

I tend to agree with you.  Because this became a requirement after you booked, a full refund should be available should you not be able to get the doc's note.   I don't know your specific circumstance but perhaps you can still cancel if you are before final pmt date.