Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[plimsoleline]

Celebrity have introduced a policy whereby those 70 and over have to have a signed letter from their doctor stating they are fit for cruising.In England it's is common to wait two weeks to see a doctor when you are ill.I don't think doctors or other patients will want fit people taking up valuable appointment times.How long will the 'fit note ' last?If it was obtained two weeks before the cruise,you may now have problem.If you left the appointment to the last few days and it was cancelled,what then.This would apply equally to any nationality on a fly cruise.Does this amount to a change of T&C by Celebrity and merit a refund?

[davekathy]

11 minutes ago, plimsoleline said:

Celebrity have introduced a policy whereby those 70 and over have to have a signed letter from their doctor stating they are fit for cruising.In England it's is common to wait two weeks to see a doctor when you are ill.I don't think doctors or other patients will want fit people taking up valuable appointment times.How long will the 'fit note ' last?If it was obtained two weeks before the cruise,you may now have problem.If you left the appointment to the last few days and it was cancelled,what then.This would apply equally to any nationality on a fly cruise.Does this amount to a change of T&C by Celebrity and merit a refund?

Welcome to CC. The signed doctors note for those 70+ is not just a Celebrity Cruise requirement. If you cruise on over to the other cruise line forums here on CC you will see a lot of different post discussing the doctors note. IMO, no there is no fraud being committed by the different cruise lines requiring a singed doctors note. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

13 minutes ago, plimsoleline said:

Celebrity have introduced a policy whereby those 70 and over have to have a signed letter from their doctor stating they are fit for cruising.In England it's is common to wait two weeks to see a doctor when you are ill.I don't think doctors or other patients will want fit people taking up valuable appointment times.How long will the 'fit note ' last?If it was obtained two weeks before the cruise,you may now have problem.If you left the appointment to the last few days and it was cancelled,what then.This would apply equally to any nationality on a fly cruise.Does this amount to a change of T&C by Celebrity and merit a refund?

What it amounts to is "age discrimination." 

FWIW, this age/health note requirement was recently introduced across several mass market lines in the US. At the same time, I am unaware of any premium/luxury line that has also added the same thing which, of course, would be industrial suicide given the passenger demographics.

As for your specific question, have you actually examined your ticket contract (the often expanded version of your T&Cs). It should say what happens if you are denied boarding. Also, if your T&Cs say the cruise line can change "whatever," you may find yourself in a legal whizzing match, that could require more of your time, energy and other resources than is the value of your cruise.

Hopefully, you can still get out of this contract now with minimum cost to you. If so, then you can send a message with your future bookings by avoiding any cruise line that tries thus bogus BS.

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 minutes ago, davekathy said:

Welcome to CC. The signed doctors note for those 70+ is not just a Celebrity Cruise requirement. If you cruise on over to the other cruise line forums here on CC you will see a lot of different post discussing the doctors note. IMO, no there is no fraud being committed by the different cruise lines requiring a singed doctors note. 

As aforementioned, this is a questionable PR stunt by mass market lines that, ultimately, will backfire.

The only "silver lining" for mass market lines keeping up this stupidity will be to bolster the senior citizen bookings by folks who "jump ship" from the mass market line (in a particular family of lines) to its more expensive premium/luxury brand (where there are no such age-based requirements.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

What it amounts to is "age discrimination." 

FWIW, this age/health note requirement was recently introduced across several mass market lines in the US. At the same time, I am unaware of any premium/luxury line that has also added the same thing which, of course, would be industrial suicide given the passenger demographics.

As for your specific question, have you actually examined your ticket contract (the often expanded version of your T&Cs). It should say what happens if you are denied boarding. Also, if your T&Cs say the cruise line can change "whatever," you may find yourself in a legal whizzing match, that could require more of your time, energy and other resources than is the value of your cruise.

Hopefully, you can still get out of this contract now with minimum cost to you. If so, then you can send a message with your future bookings by avoiding any cruise line that tries thus bogus BS.

It may be BS (I would say it's a knee jerk reaction) but it doesn't rise to the level of age discrimination. Age discrimination would be prohibiting all passengers of a certain age from sailing.

[Flatbush Flyer]

18 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

It may be BS (I would say it's a knee jerk reaction) but it doesn't rise to the level of age discrimination. Age discrimination would be prohibiting all passengers of a certain age from sailing.

I beg to differ. Age discrimination in this case is adding/keeping what is now known as an "unreasonable" requirement solely for an age group.

We have quickly learned that the Covid-19  "vulnerable" population Is NOT age specific. So, if the cruise industry continues with their "knee jerk" reaction (I agree), it needs to be a requirement for all ages - again, industrial suicide.

FWIW, look at the new US Covid-19 preparedness requirement for cruise ships  (posted elsewhere in these related Covid-19 threads). The demand is an industry plan for dealing with passengers once onboard and thereafter. Notice that there is zero mention of embarkation prohibition of classes of people (including any requirement for a useless and unreasonable doctor's note).

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships_Extension_4-9-20-encrypted.pdf

Edited April 10, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[davekathy]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

As aforementioned, this is a questionable PR stunt by mass market lines that, ultimately, will backfire.

The only "silver lining" for mass market lines keeping up this stupidity will be to bolster the senior citizen bookings by folks who "jump ship" from the mass market line (in a particular family of lines) to its more expensive premium/luxury brand (where there are no such age-based requirements.

Your opinion and I don't really care. My post was to point out to the OP that Celebrity isn't the only cruise line requiring the signed doctors note and to check out the other cruise lines forum. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by davekathy

[bob brown]

I was required to obtain such a health 'release' from my physician, before being allowed to join Hurtigruten's Antarctic expedition cruise.   I think that in at least that situation, it is a good policy, as you are sailing into a place where there is no hope of medical evacuation in event of an emergency, not to mention the need to be in reasonably fit shape to participate in 'RIB' landing's...

 

I might add, that I didn't have to take a new exam...the doctor provided it at the appropriate time based on my last periodic exam.

Edited April 10, 2020 by bob brown

[LHT28]

51 minutes ago, bob brown said:

I was required to obtain such a health 'release' from my physician, before being allowed to join Hurtigruten's Antarctic expedition cruise. 

 Did you need one for your recent  RTW cruise??

[81Zoomie]

56 minutes ago, bob brown said:

I was required to obtain such a health 'release' from my physician, before being allowed to join Hurtigruten's Antarctic expedition cruise.   I think that in at least that situation, it is a good policy, as you are sailing into a place where there is no hope of medical evacuation in event of an emergency, not to mention the need to be in reasonably fit shape to participate in 'RIB' landing's...

 

I might add, that I didn't have to take a new exam...the doctor provided it at the appropriate time based on my last periodic exam.

We had to provide a doctors statement and shot records on Ponant to Antarctica as well.  It is required for all passengers regardless of age.  As explained, to us  you are a 2 day sail in treacherous waters from the nearest hospital with no coast guard, or military, or anyone else to rush to your aid if needed,  This is a true safety mitigation.  It is very different from sailing a loop in the Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico.

[hcat]

There are already active threads covering this. Maybe someone can post the links..search feature?

A shame to start over each time   someone starts a new thread...

[hcat]

Here's one of them

 

 

[Fouremco]

12 minutes ago, 81Zoomie said:

We had to provide a doctors statement and shot records on Ponant to Antarctica as well.  It is required for all passengers regardless of age. 

As should be the case when dealing with COVID-19.

[mek]

1 hour ago, bob brown said:

I was required to obtain such a health 'release' from my physician, before being allowed to join Hurtigruten's Antarctic expedition cruise.   I think that in at least that situation, it is a good policy, as you are sailing into a place where there is no hope of medical evacuation in event of an emergency, not to mention the need to be in reasonably fit shape to participate in 'RIB' landing's...

 

I might add, that I didn't have to take a new exam...the doctor provided it at the appropriate time based on my last periodic exam.

But you knew going in that it was a requirement to be able to take the cruise. That is totally different. I have no problem with that, but for those of us who have a cruise already booked and in the case of Royal Caribbean, they are telling us that if we can;t get the signed letter then they will graciously allow us to transfer our booking to someone else - that is BS.  I have no intention of paying for a visit to the doctor and probably having to get a complete physical just so she can sign off on all of the areas in question.  My last check up was a year ago before I had a knee replaced and even at that time I didn't have any blood work done prior to admission.  I doubt if any of that will hold up for my next cruise that is planned for November.

If I'm not allowed to cruise, then I want my money back.

[bob brown]

43 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

 Did you need one for your recent  RTW cruise??

No, but as said, sailing to Antarctica, is a whole different matter.  

[upwarduk]

To the OP

Gov.UK guidelines advise against cruise ship travel if you are over 70.

[Jim_Iain]

Even though I happen to be in the OVER 70 group I definitely don't consider the requirement any more discriminatory than asking a pregnant passenger for a note from their doctor that they are safe to travel.   The requirement does not prohibit us from traveling but a note from the doctor that you do not have any of the high risk conditions that are noted by the CDC.

 

As many know we were in Florida on 3/14 when our cruise was cancelled.   I had sent a not to my doctor and requested he send a clearance.   Since I don't have any of the conditions he obliged but also sent me an additional e-mail pointing out the CDC's recommendations that those over 70 do not cruise.  

 

 

[Denny01]

So you would cruise if your Dr thought you shouldn’t and you couldn’t get them to fill out the form? Obviously the Lines are focusing on the higher risk group, which is ‘us’, and I already talked with my Dr and she said if I needed a form prior to my next Appt, she could fill one out based on my last checkup and I could send it in via email. My wife thought it was a great idea....until I reminded her she’d be 70 before our next cruise and she then didn’t think it was sooooo good. 

 

Personally, I agree with the ‘make all do it’ but at least the Lines are working those of us in the higher risk group. We’ve all seen more than a few who you’d question why they are cruising, especially the longer cruises and few of those are the younger crowd and almost always ‘us’. 

 

Barely related Story, but I’ve got to tell it:

On our TA a number of years ago, our table mate who was about 60 and his wife who was much older and in a wheelchair and obviously very ill. She made it through 3 nights before she was in the infirmary and died before we reached the Azores. My wife and another lady at our table were sure the husband took her on that cruise to knock her off! Really weird part of it: he was going to miss the Lobster dinner because he had to get off early, so he got it the night before docking.....and they served him TWO lobsters. I sat there watching and when he left, I announced: “He Ate his Dead Wife’s Lobster!!!” and I joined my wife’s and our table mate’s theory he killer her off!!

 

Enough. I know the apparent arbitrary rules set by age for this and such things as some tours are not ‘fair’ but mainly its because we as individuals wont use common sense on much of this.

 

Den

[TrulyBlonde]

1 hour ago, 81Zoomie said:

We had to provide a doctors statement and shot records on Ponant to Antarctica as well.  It is required for all passengers regardless of age.  As explained, to us  you are a 2 day sail in treacherous waters from the nearest hospital with no coast guard, or military, or anyone else to rush to your aid if needed,  This is a true safety mitigation.  It is very different from sailing a loop in the Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico.

Same. We also had a man from France die on 2nd night of cruise. Probably around 50 yrs of age. Looked healthy, but a heavy smoker. He had to travel with us for close to 2 weeks until we returned for disembarkation.

Edited April 10, 2020 by TrulyBlonde

[hcat]

So many have what the CDC lists.. and won't be able to get a note.

Includes diabetes, high blood pressure,  cardiac issues,  a whole long list..and not real clear between chronic and or severe.  What about C Pap users?  Do they still accept dialysis pts on ships?

 

I think its the cruise lines' right to decide who they will board  or sell to, and I would not cruise now..BUT f I am denied boarding in the future for lack of a note ,  I would like a refund of my FCC amount.   If at the time of issuance it was disclosed that it could be worthless,  I could have waited for X to cancel my cruise and gotten a 100 % refund. I heard that someone already got their fcc refunded after filing a  credit card dispute,....possible????

[alwaysonaship]

A question, we are both over 70 and have normal health issues that are under good control. We do have some on the list. Before COVID-19 was an issue we booked New Zealand Jan 2021. Now I don’t think we would pass the test in terms of do we have any of those things. So do we cancel..certainly not going to make final payment..if they are cruising then anyway, but a future cc would have no value as what we have isn’t going to go away. 
 

Sorry to ramble.  

[LHT28]

56 minutes ago, bob brown said:

No, but as said, sailing to Antarctica, is a whole different matter.  

True

 I was surprised  that RTW cruisers  would not need some sort of medical fitness letter

Considering your event ..good to see you are doing well

[Ronin23]

It is absolutely the right thing to ask over 70 year olds to have doctors clearance. That age group is the most at risk and it protects them as well as the cruise line so whinging about it and calling it age discrimination is ridiculous and myopic.

 

15 passengers died from the Ruby Princess and they were all over 70. 

[DaveSJ711]

18 minutes ago, Ronin23 said:

It is absolutely the right thing to ask over 70 year olds to have doctors clearance. That age group is the most at risk and it protects them as well as the cruise line so whinging about it and calling it age discrimination is ridiculous and myopic.

 

15 passengers died from the Ruby Princess and they were all over 70. 

 

My state (Washington) reported 421 deaths from Corona through April 7.  92% of the people who died were age 60 or older.  These figures present a stark reality -- a viral infection like COVID kills far more seniors than people in younger age brackets.

 

The seniors on this page who deny their at-risk status are whistling past the proverbial graveyard (no pun intended).

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[JonnyCT81]

This is not a Celebrity policy - this policy was enacted by CLIA. Other lines are following the same protocols as Celebrity.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/industry-proposes-people-over-70-171330071.html

This has been the case since early March, so it's nothing new. For those who are claiming "age discrimination" - discrimination has to have some malice intent behind it. If a ride at an amusement park says if you're under 13 you can't go on the the roller coaster, am I supposed to say to my niece that she is being discriminated against? They are doing it because based on all current knowledge THE OLDER YOU ARE, THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO DIE FROM THIS DISEASE. Until there is some sort of vaccine or cure, the cruise lines will not take responsibility for your safety against this illness.

These private companies are protecting themselves from litigation (as is their right as a private corporation).



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