P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[lancashire_cruisers]

21 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

A properly funded and staffed NHS would be a good starting point, and that’s been the problem since the virus hit - years of underfunding and understaffing, meaning that it could barely cope with a normal winter, let alone what we have now. The likelihood of a virus like this has been predicted for several years, but the warnings ignored.

 

The NHS is there to protect us. And properly funded/staffed it would be. It should not be necessary to ‘protect the NHS’.

 

The mantra that the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed by Covid is patent nonsense. It was, and it still is. Not through the fault of the extraordinarily dedicated and hardworking staff, but because it wasn’t given enough to enable it to survive. Nursing and doctor cuts were just plain ridiculous, and it’s too late now to reverse them, particularly as we’re no longer able to bring people in from Europe to fill all the gaps.

As a NHS worker I wish I could like this post more than once. Harry is absolutely correct as even in a normal winter A&E departments are frequently at 'black' which means that they have to close their doors and direct patients elsewhere and this is due to years of chronic underfunding and staffing shortages.

 

The NHS is trying to run services differently and there are some excellent examples of how we have responded during the pandemic to try and keep services running as best we can. For example, we run virtual clinics so that we can still monitor our patients without having to bring them to hospital and potentially expose them to the virus and patients have really valued this.

 

Unfortunately we can't do everything that we normally do plus cope with COVID and we were absolutely overwhelmed in the first wave and went from that to trying to restart services over the summer, to now trying to cope with the onslaught of a second wave. Staff are tired, stressed, angry, and in fear for their lives - we've already lost far too many colleagues to this dangerous virus and the thought of potentially losing more is such a bitter pill to swallow.

 

We know that the majority of the public value us and what we do but just wish that those who govern us felt the same.

[wowzz]

40 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

So what additional measures do we need to take to fully achieve this safeguarding whilst still allowing everyone else to freely mingle and develop some sort of herd immunity, which would inevitably mean the incidence of the disease would be far more widespread.

I think the problem is, as Harry has pointed out, in an ideal world you wouldn't start from where we are now!  Every winter, even in normal times, the NHS is stretched to breaking point, due to years of underfunding. 

As a start we should actively try and  re-recruit all those nursing and care home staff who have left the UK because of Brexit. In the short term private hospitals should be nationalised, and all GPs should be made to re-open their surgeries and recommence face to face consultations. A major advertising campaign should stress that if you are worried about your health, you should not be afraid to seek medical  advice ( easier said than done, I know)

The two metre  rule should be scrapped, with a recommendation that 1 metre is sufficient. Conversely,  I would more strictly enforce mask wearing in enclosed places.

But, really, I think for the next year or two we will just be treading water, hoping that the infamous vaccine rides to the rescue, before the economy completely implodes.

[tring]

2 hours ago, Vampiress88 said:

I read other day apparently this time last year there were 9000 people waiting for cancel treatment or operations etc And now we have 57000 people waiting. 
 

everyone is so worried about this virus that they have forgotten those with other illnesses and the nhs seems to become Covid or nothing. It’s sad when anyone has to leave this earth but I really feel for those that could have lived with treatment but are neglected because of this virus. 
 

 

 

I totally agree and also think we are becoming a two class society because of it.  We are in a vulnerable group and realise we just need to be very careful over the winter, whilst letting others get on with life and do not need to be told to do so now.  I had a referral about 3 weeks ago - not on a very urgent cancer list, but investigations are needed.  Under the NHS it did not seem likely I would even get a first apt for many months, yet it is early stage illness that could benefit more from treatment, if needed.  We have decided to spend our holiday money from this year, (and possibly more), on private health care for the matter.  Those of us who cruise a couple of times a year can likely afford cash for that, even if we are not what we think of as that well off - a very good spend of our savings in our view though.  Many could not consider it at all and there will be a lot of suffering/deaths because of it.

 

My husband had a retinal tear during the lockdown and had very prompt treatment, both from a local opticians and the local eye department, with a number of regular follow up checks.  So at least really urgent matters like that are being dealt with, but even things like delays of replacement joints are a big problem and will produce a lot of people who loose mobility longer term as they become less active so that other parts of the body cease up as well, along with mental health effects on many people of course.

[tring]

6 minutes ago, lancashire_cruisers said:

As a NHS worker I wish I could like this post more than once. Harry is absolutely correct as even in a normal winter A&E departments are frequently at 'black' which means that they have to close their doors and direct patients elsewhere and this is due to years of chronic underfunding and staffing shortages.

 

The NHS is trying to run services differently and there are some excellent examples of how we have responded during the pandemic to try and keep services running as best we can. For example, we run virtual clinics so that we can still monitor our patients without having to bring them to hospital and potentially expose them to the virus and patients have really valued this.

 

Unfortunately we can't do everything that we normally do plus cope with COVID and we were absolutely overwhelmed in the first wave and went from that to trying to restart services over the summer, to now trying to cope with the onslaught of a second wave. Staff are tired, stressed, angry, and in fear for their lives - we've already lost far too many colleagues to this dangerous virus and the thought of potentially losing more is such a bitter pill to swallow.

 

We know that the majority of the public value us and what we do but just wish that those who govern us felt the same.

 

I forgot to mention my thoughts about the NHS staff, who in the main are not well paid either, which is a great mistake IMO.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, tring said:

but even things like delays of replacement joints are a big problem and will produce a lot of people who loose mobility longer term as they become less active so that other parts of the body cease up as well, along with mental health effects on many people of course.

Those sort of long term issues have rarely been discussed, and you have made a good point.  I know from my mother's case, how much of a difference it made to her when her knees were replaced (not both at once!). I can't imagine how she would have coped if the operation for her last replacement had been delayed by 6 months let alone 18 months.

 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, tring said:

 

I forgot to mention my thoughts about the NHS staff, who in the main are not well paid either, which is a great mistake IMO.

Totally agree with you about the pay of front line staff.  My thoughts about the remuneration packages given to some of the NHS Trust executives are, however, somewhat different!

[Vampiress88]

6 minutes ago, tring said:

 

I totally agree and also think we are becoming a two class society because of it.  We are in a vulnerable group and realise we just need to be very careful over the winter, whilst letting others get on with life and do not need to be told to do so now.  I had a referral about 3 weeks ago - not on a very urgent cancer list, but investigations are needed.  Under the NHS it did not seem likely I would even get a first apt for many months, yet it is early stage illness that could benefit more from treatment, if needed.  We have decided to spend our holiday money from this year, (and possibly more), on private health care for the matter.  Those of us who cruise a couple of times a year can likely afford cash for that, even if we are not what we think of as that well off - a very good spend of our savings in our view though.  Many could not consider it at all and there will be a lot of suffering/deaths because of it.

 

My husband had a retinal tear during the lockdown and had very prompt treatment, both from a local opticians and the local eye department, with a number of regular follow up checks.  So at least really urgent matters like that are being dealt with, but even things like delays of replacement joints are a big problem and will produce a lot of people who loose mobility longer term as they become less active so that other parts of the body cease up as well, along with mental health effects on many people of course.

its a shame though that you work your whole life and we all contribute to the nhs yet you have to pay for private care. I would have probably done the same tbh. 
 

my hospital appointment today I wouldn’t even class as urgent so I was very surprised that it came through so quick but that could have been as I was waiting for a few months and it got cancelled due to Covid but still I wouldn’t say mine is urgent and if it wasn’t such a specific department then I would have suggested they prioritise others. 
 

The nhs I think needs better support than it gets. 
 

anyway I probably should get off my rant box today. 
 

what’s for dinner people?  
im having turkey dinosaurs 

[tring]

31 minutes ago, wowzz said:

all GPs should be made to re-open their surgeries and recommence face to face consultations.

 

This is something I do not recognise.  I have attended my GP surgery twice in the last 3 weeks for slightly different purposes.  Yes I had to fill in an on line form (which is not best designed admittedly), then a telephone apt was made which was fine and also meant a lot of the stuff that could be sorted over the phone was done.  Each time though an examination was needed and I was given a time by the GP at that stage for an appointment when I could be seen.  In each case the time span was not IMO any longer than I would normally have needed to wait for a surgery appointment and when, because of time restraint, the condition may not have got full attention that was needed.  The initial telephone apt seems a very good system as far as I can see. 

 

Others may have had a different experience, so would be happy to be corrected if that is not happening elsewhere.

Edited October 8, 2020 by tring

[lancashire_cruisers]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

This is something I do not recognise.  I have attended my GP surgery twice in the last 3 weeks for slightly different purposes.  Yes I had to fill in an on line form (which is not best designed admittedly), then a telephone apt was made which was fine and also meant a lot of the stuff that could be sorted over the phone was done.  Each time though an examination was needed and I was given a time byt the gP at that stage for an appointment when I could be seen.  In each case the time span was not IMO any longer than I would normally have needed to wait for a surgery appointment and when, because of time restraint, the condition may not have got full attention as was needed.  The initial telephone apt seems a very good system as far as I can. 

 

Others may have had a different experience, so would be happy to be corrected if that is not happening elsewhere.

My GP is doing the same. An initial telephone consult and then a face to face appointment if required.

[terrierjohn]

54 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

A properly funded and staffed NHS would be a good starting point, and that’s been the problem since the virus hit - years of underfunding and understaffing, meaning that it could barely cope with a normal winter, let alone what we have now. The likelihood of a virus like this has been predicted for several years, but the warnings ignored.

 

The NHS is there to protect us. And properly funded/staffed it would be. It should not be necessary to ‘protect the NHS’.

 

The mantra that the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed by Covid is patent nonsense. It was, and it still is. Not through the fault of the extraordinarily dedicated and hardworking staff, but because it wasn’t given enough to enable it to survive. Nursing and doctor cuts were just plain ridiculous, and it’s too late now to reverse them, particularly as we’re no longer able to bring people in from Europe to fill all the gaps.

Harry, you have restored my faith in human nature, this is definitely something I can disagree with you about. The lack of funding is a well trodden labour party doctrine, but anyone who visits a hospital clinic must see the plethora of bodies wandering around with folders under their arm, then several minutes later retracing their steps, and if you are unlucky enough to have a long wait you will see the same people do several encores.

Now these may not be front line staff, but they do get paid by the the NHS. If the NHS  was managed properly and administration was overhauled and run efficiently, it would be able to employ far more front line staff.

It may be sacrilege but I reckon if Jeff Bezos ran the NHS admin, then it might well be a world class organisation.

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, tring said:

 

This is something I do not recognise.  I have attended my GP surgery twice in the last 3 weeks for slightly different purposes.  Yes I had to fill in an on line form (which is not best designed admittedly), then a telephone apt was made which was fine and also meant a lot of the stuff that could be sorted over the phone was done.  Each time though an examination was needed and I was given a time byt the gP at that stage for an appointment when I could be seen.  In each case the time span was not IMO any longer than I would normally have needed to wait for a surgery appointment and when, because of time restraint, the condition may not have got full attention as was needed.  The initial telephone apt seems a very good system as far as I can. 

 

Others may have had a different experience, so would be happy to be corrected if that is not happening elsewhere.

My comment was based on anecdotal evidence, and obviously will not apply to every surgery. However the following link may be of interest.

BBC News - NHS tells GPs they must offer patients face-to-face appointments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54138915

[kalos]

3 minutes ago, tring said:

 

This is something I do not recognise.  I have attended my GP surgery twice in the last 3 weeks for slightly different purposes.  Yes I had to fill in an on line form (which is not best designed admittedly), then a telephone apt was made which was fine and also meant a lot of the stuff that could be sorted over the phone was done.  Each time though an examination was needed and I was given a time byt the gP at that stage for an appointment when I could be seen.  In each case the time span was not IMO any longer than I would normally have needed to wait for a surgery appointment and when, because of time restraint, the condition may not have got full attention as was needed.  The initial telephone apt seems a very good system as far as I can. 

 

Others may have had a different experience, so would be happy to be corrected if that is not happening elsewhere.

 

Same experience with our medical practice .I've had a couple of telephone appointments and two visits for my vaccinations.

Before visiting, fill in an online health check followed by a text message allowing you to visit .

They have a one way in one way out system in place .I was happy with the set up they had.

[zap99]

2 hours ago, Bloodaxe said:

 

It probably depends on your location, I was due for a annual check up at York Eye Hospital in August.

I had a letter the other day telling me I was still on the list but with no date for the appointment.

DW needs to have an ultrasound due to a frozen shoulder. The Doc sent an email to the hospital  on Tuesday. We phoned yesterday to make an appointment. " When would you like to come?"". I guess a good number of folks aren't going.

Edited October 8, 2020 by zap99
Spell

[tring]

7 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

its a shame though that you work your whole life and we all contribute to the nhs yet you have to pay for private care. I would have probably done the same tbh. 
 

my hospital appointment today I wouldn’t even class as urgent so I was very surprised that it came through so quick but that could have been as I was waiting for a few months and it got cancelled due to Covid but still I wouldn’t say mine is urgent and if it wasn’t such a specific department then I would have suggested they prioritise others. 
 

The nhs I think needs better support than it gets. 
 

anyway I probably should get off my rant box today. 
 

what’s for dinner people?  
im having turkey dinosaurs 

 

Any health care matter should be dealt with though and If you have been waiting so long you should be seen.  There can be a case made for contributions made during your life, but even personally I have benefited at other times and will in the future.

 

I would prefer to be taxed more and have better funded services, but in other ways we are quite happy I am not adding to the list that needs attention at this time and do intend to go through with any futher treatment privately, rather than hope to be transferred back to the NHS on a quicker basis, hence jumping the queue as is often done. 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, lancashire_cruisers said:

My GP is doing the same. An initial telephone consult and then a face to face appointment if required.

Likewise. Excellent GP practice here. They do vary from village to village, but ours is superb.
 

Contacted them last month with a problem, saw the GP that same day, referred to a relatively local Covid-free surgical unit and seen a few days later, Covid test today, surgery next week. Expected to wait weeks or months, and since leaving it involved a risk we looked at the private options, but that same day the NHS phoned. Privately the wait time just to see the consultant was at least 2 months!
 

Huge fan of the NHS, doing its level best to survive despite successive recent governments, but this really impressed me. I’m keeping my fingers crossed it still goes ahead next week, given the rapidly deteriorating situation.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Now these may not be front line staff, but they do get paid by the the NHS. If the NHS  was managed properly and administration was overhauled and run efficiently, it would be able to employ far more front line staff.

Yes, and who appoints these managers? The overpaid executives in the NHS Trusts,  who in turn have to meet the various targets set by the Government.  At the end of the day,  the buck stops at the door of Number10 with their ridiculous obsession with targets, performance figures etc.

[Harry Peterson]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It may be sacrilege but I reckon if Jeff Bezos ran the NHS admin, then it might well be a world class organisation.

Have you spoken to any Amazon employees lately?  I think a disaffected staff is the last thing the NHS needs. And they’re pretty hacked off even now at the way they’re treated.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

 

There lies the problem Harry , we are dealing with a virus that is new , not even a year old yet .

(Well in the UK anyway ) 

I think we have to look at ourselves and ask when will we learn to take viruses seriously  like 

the Sars/Mers which are part of the Covid family , which to a certain extent we chose to ignore .

DermotsGirl makes very valid points when it comes to hygiene,we need to up our game .

The best part of us have seen the antics of some in the ships buffet area's that vouch for this .

Talking to some family members we recalled how our mum's & dad's would not let us near our

meals until we had washed ,no matter what time of the day -No excuses .

We have seen wedding reception's ,buffet in gardens kids and adults where it's " Come on ,stop playing ,

the foods ready "  Not everyone but standards have fell over the years .

Then there's the ones who think it's ok to let a sneeze just rip !  In our days Harry we had TV adverts 

with logo's "Coughs and sneezes spread diseases" Not these days ,they are too busy munching a 

McDonalds and throwing the rubbish from it down our country lanes. What ever happened to ..

"Keep Britain Tidy" ?    

When it comes to the NHS ,sure there is backlogs and I am one of them but I think they do try 

to look after people when they can .One side of the coin you have people who should use the 

A&E but are fearful to visit and the otherside ..Like my SIL who has had full cancer treatment

at the Hallamshire and is there today having a full MRI bone scan .

Talking to her today she says she has never felt let down by the NHS , That's not to say 

some people are waiting  or should be getting checked out by a doctor.

The newspapers ..Well they chose which group of scientists fit their agenda that given week .

I'm sure it was John who said "The best thing to come out of a newspaper is Fish&Chips and even

that should be taken with a pinch of salt .  Wise words 

Spot on post Kalos.

I totally agree.

[Eglesbrech]

GP services are there if you need them but not so for dentists. The only thing offered on the NHS is an extraction, however if you can pay for it you can have the full range of treatment. They charge a fee for the PPE and for a deep clean of the room if the treatment is aresol generating, starts at £100 before they even look at a tooth!

 

Lots of people in pain losing teeth unnecessarily. I feel particularly sorry for those on low incomes who have to choose between Long term pain, taking multiple antibiotics for abscess or losing healthy and Fully treatable teeth.

[terrierjohn]

Just now, wowzz said:

Yes, and who appoints these managers? The overpaid executives in the NHS Trusts,  who in turn have to meet the various targets set by the Government.  At the end of the day,  the buck stops at the door of Number10 with their ridiculous obsession with targets, performance figures etc.

I doubt that the politicians are the ones thinking up these performance targets, more likely to be civil servants. However I agree that it will be probably be because the ministers are wanting to se improvements in service. But when faced with 3 or 4 options of similar stupidity, I guess even choosing the least stupid might prove counter productive.

Let's get Jeff Bezos to run the civil service as well.

 

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Have you spoken to any Amazon employees lately?  I think a disaffected staff is the last thing the NHS needs. And they’re pretty hacked off even now at the way they’re treated.

If you will take your information from the Guardian what else do you expect to read.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt that the politicians are the ones thinking up these performance targets, more likely to be civil servants. However I agree that it will be probably be because the ministers are wanting to se improvements in service. But when faced with 3 or 4 options of similar stupidity, I guess even choosing the least stupid might prove counter productive.

Let's get Jeff Bezos to run the civil service as well.

 

How big is that wooden spoon you have John?😀

[grapau27]

42 minutes ago, lancashire_cruisers said:

As a NHS worker I wish I could like this post more than once. Harry is absolutely correct as even in a normal winter A&E departments are frequently at 'black' which means that they have to close their doors and direct patients elsewhere and this is due to years of chronic underfunding and staffing shortages.

 

The NHS is trying to run services differently and there are some excellent examples of how we have responded during the pandemic to try and keep services running as best we can. For example, we run virtual clinics so that we can still monitor our patients without having to bring them to hospital and potentially expose them to the virus and patients have really valued this.

 

Unfortunately we can't do everything that we normally do plus cope with COVID and we were absolutely overwhelmed in the first wave and went from that to trying to restart services over the summer, to now trying to cope with the onslaught of a second wave. Staff are tired, stressed, angry, and in fear for their lives - we've already lost far too many colleagues to this dangerous virus and the thought of potentially losing more is such a bitter pill to swallow.

 

We know that the majority of the public value us and what we do but just wish that those who govern us felt the same.

You get a big Thank You from me.

Graham.

[tring]

11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

My comment was based on anecdotal evidence, and obviously will not apply to every surgery. However the following link may be of interest.

BBC News - NHS tells GPs they must offer patients face-to-face appointments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54138915

 

I have only had a quick look at your link, and more to the point the relevant links from there, but it seems to largely refer to the system I mentioned.  I do think it may cause some problems for people without on line access and lack of house visits is mentioned in the link, though I still think is should depend on need rather than someone's wish to walk into the door of a surgery and be 'happy' about how they are dealt with, which seems to be what is being quoted.

 

The main fall down I would see is older people who do not report their full symptoms and state of well being, so could fall through the net as not needing attention.  I would certainly have considered by late parents as belonging to that sort of group.

[amfc_lenny]

We are just outside the Nottingham boundary, and not looking forward to the local lockdown due next week. There is no doubt it’s being spread by the students before they came back we had a rate of about 70 per 100k and within 2 weeks of them being hear are over 500 per 100k.

 

my brother has been in the Manchester lockdown since July, so the whole idea of it seems pretty pointless unless you really clampdown on ppl for a 2-3week period.