Would consolidation of brands benefit Carnival Corp?

[jimmieg]

Watched Aaron Donald's video to reassure employees in regard to financial challenges. Then read that a forward announcement scheduled for today was delayed until Monday.

 

I am wondering if there would be a significant financial advantage for CCL, at this time, to consolidate brands in some way.  It is usually thought of the larger brands in the family that Carnival competes in the same market with RC and possibly NCL. Competition with Celebrity is Princess.  Azamara and Oceana might be competing for same demographic as Seaborne.

 

Does HAL have a niche?  Has the Princess brand been damaged too much by events surrounding Diamond/Grand/Ruby or now the HAL brand with Zaandam news?

 

Mergers are complicated with history, corporate culture, brand loyalty, but auto, airlines and hotel brands have had to deal with it.

Don't know what you would do with any unneeded ships in this environment to raise capital. Savings might be only to management, advertising, sales and operations.

 

This is meant to be a positive outside the box consideration in counterpoint alternative to the various bankruptcy speculation threada on various brand discussions.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[HappyCruiserettu]

2 hours ago, jimmieg said:

Watched Aaron Donald's video to reassure employees in regard to financial challenges. Then read that a forward announcement scheduled for today was delayed until Monday.

 

I am wondering if there would be a significant financial advantage for CCL, at this time, to consolidate brands in some way.  It is usually thought of the larger brands in the family that Carnival competes in the same market with RC and possibly NCL. Competition with Celebrity is Princess.  Azamara and Oceana might be competing for same demographic as Seaborne.

 

Does HAL have a niche?  Has the Princess brand been damaged too much by events surrounding Diamond/Grand/Ruby or now the HAL brand with Zaandam news?

 

Mergers are complicated with history, corporate culture, brand loyalty, but auto, airlines and hotel brands have had to deal with it.

Don't know what you would do with any unneeded ships in this environment to raise capital. Savings might be only to management, advertising, sales and operations.

 

This is meant to be a positive outside the box consideration in counterpoint alternative to the various bankruptcy speculation threada on various brand discussions.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

It's not a matter of over capacity. The airlines and auto manufacturers both had over capacity. There were a lot of empty seats on airlines in the recent past. In contrast, most ships are sailing at or near capacity. Not sure where the savings would come.

 

[sfaaa]

No need to speculate. Wait till Monday.

[HotRoot]

Just an fyi, Seaborn is competing with SilverSea and Regent, not Azamara and Oceania.

[skynight]

It will take time for the cruise industry to recover. I believe they will do it and will be able to refinance their asset debt. I don't believe that the COVID-19 cases on Princess ships will be much of a factor. The line was not responsible for this and their customers understand. They were most likely hit early on because the operation of these ships was in the Asian/Pacific regions and their passengers/crew were exposed before all the guidelines were in place. I don't see mergers between the main cruise corporations. This only increases the asset debt. I do think there will be less itineraries and less ships to meet a reduced demand. Less profitable ships could be sold or moth balled for a while. We hope the tests for a COVID-19 vaccine work out and that vaccine is available in a year or so. It will take massive production efforts to produce a world wide supply. Not related to COVID-19, but I think it would be a good business move for the cruise industry to support, if they don't already, vaccine studies for noro virus, a aliment that plagues the industry.

[JF - retired RRT]

2 hours ago, skynight said:

Not related to COVID-19, but I think it would be a good business move for the cruise industry to support, if they don't already, vaccine studies for noro virus, a aliment that plagues the industry.

👍

[jimmieg]

7 hours ago, sfaaa said:

No need to speculate. Wait till Monday.

Nature abhors a vacuum, or at least I do. 

The original Princess 60 day pause was bold.  Others following with 30 day moves, the rolling 30 day moves, finally early Alaska cancellations have been after the fact announcements of what avid cruisers already knew.

Monday is a great opportunity for another bold move by CCL Corp to lend confidence.  A tepid response will be chilling to the industry.

[jimmieg]

4 hours ago, HotRoot said:

Just an fyi, Seaborn is competing with SilverSea and Regent, not Azamara and Oceania.

Perhaps so. None of them are in my personal wheelhouse. Just read comments from smaller ship, more inclusive amenity lovers comparing their experiences.

[BermudaBound2014]

10 hours ago, HappyCruiserettu said:

It's not a matter of over capacity. The airlines and auto manufacturers both had over capacity. There were a lot of empty seats on airlines in the recent past. In contrast, most ships are sailing at or near capacity. Not sure where the savings would come.

 

 

Most ships WERE sailing at of near capacity. I suspect that won't happen for quite some time. No one knows how deep the cruise reputation has been hit. In my immediate family we have 8 who have sworn to never cruise (or never again). As an avid cruiser, even I am reconsidering after the picture posted of current cruise conditions on the Zaandam.

 

I'm believe we will define cruising as the way it was before Covid19 vs after. Much like 911 changed the way we fly.

[loge23]

That's an interesting scenario given that none of us can predict the demand level after this crisis. Some folks on SM have been declaring the end of the cruise era. I'm not in that corner, but I do think that the peak demand we saw before this situation will not be seen again for some time. This will result from a combination of factors: economic, societal, and the lingering effects from cruises being at the forefront of recent communicable diseases.  

That said, we should all find it interesting that Princess and Holland have been under the same management team since 2013. Arguably Princess has had, up until now, the higher brand profile of the two but this crisis may change that perception among consumers. It would be a shame to see the brand expire but that's among the least of our worries now I suppose. 

[jimmieg]

26 minutes ago, loge23 said:

That's an interesting scenario given that none of us can predict the demand level after this crisis. Some folks on SM have been declaring the end of the cruise era. I'm not in that corner, but I do think that the peak demand we saw before this situation will not be seen again for some time. This will result from a combination of factors: economic, societal, and the lingering effects from cruises being at the forefront of recent communicable diseases.  

That said, we should all find it interesting that Princess and Holland have been under the same management team since 2013. Arguably Princess has had, up until now, the higher brand profile of the two but this crisis may change that perception among consumers. It would be a shame to see the brand expire but that's among the least of our worries now I suppose. 

Loge23

I wanted to dispute your reference to same management team, but trying to figure out the overlapping responsibilities of executive VP over multiple brands, groups, officers, etc is confusing, especially when Seabourn, P&O, Cunard, Carnival UK, etc are thrown in the mix. So, I can't dispute, but neither could I draw an org chart (I know, I'm old school 😉)

So what actual responsibilities and decision-making powers do Jan Schwartz and Orlando Ashford have for their brands?  Who made the decision for the PCL 60-day pause?

 

[Tophat4321]

Our vacation to Mexico was cancelled by Princess and the Alaska cruise is likely to be cancelled. I just want my $$ back.

 

I am concerned that the Princess name may be too tarnished to continue operations.  Holland America name now is being linked to the COVID. 

 

If we go anywhere soon it will be by car  to Montana/ South Dakota area if parks open?

Edited March 28, 2020 by Tophat4321

[BarbinMich]

21 minutes ago, Tophat4321 said:

Our vacation to Mexico was cancelled by Princess and the Alaska cruise is likely to be cancelled. If we go anywhere now it will be by car and go to Montana/ South Dakota area if parks open?

Don't know which parks/monuments you're planning to visit, but there have been closures per https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-03-26/appeals-grow-to-close-us-national-parks-during-pandemic.  As one can imagine it's difficult to adhere to the current rule of 6-ft separation near each park's highlights such as Mt. Rushmore in S. Dakota.

[loge23]

jimmieg: According to the Princess Wiki page: " It was previously a subsidiary of P&O Princess Cruises, and is currently under Holland America Group within Carnival Corporation & plc , which holds executive control over the Princess Cruises brand."

Certainly Jan Schwartz appears to call the shots for Princess, but apparently she reports to the Holland America Group's CEO, a chap named Stein Kruse. Mr. Kruse oversees, under the Holland America Group umbrella, Princess, Holland American, Seabourn, and the P&O subsidiaries. Holland American and the others have their own CEO's as well, as you noted.

I suppose Mr. Kruse in turn reports to Arison of Carnival. 

Here's a link to Holland's Exec profile page:

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/our-company/executive-team.html

Now where their responsibilities cross over is not clear - that's a lot of bosses!

 

 

 

[Tophat4321]

I

3 hours ago, BarbinMich said:

Don't know which parks/monuments you're planning to visit, but there have been closures per https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-03-26/appeals-grow-to-close-us-national-parks-during-pandemic.  As one can imagine it's difficult to adhere to the current rule of 6-ft separation near each park's highlights such as Mt. Rushmore in S. Dakota.

 

I am thinking that trip will be in late August or early September or stay in back yard and run naked!

[brisalta]

12 hours ago, skynight said:

Not related to COVID-19, but I think it would be a good business move for the cruise industry to support, if they don't already, vaccine studies for noro virus, a aliment that plagues the industry.

 

I was going to suggest the same but you beat me to it.

I would not be surprised if in future  cruise lines  will require proof of immunization against COVID-19, once one is available, and possibly for a range of other illnesses.

[neverbeenhere]

Vaccines for everything.
Have you seen the exemptions for children when vaccines are required for school.? I would expect to see as many or more for cruising. 

[caribill]

4 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

I was going to suggest the same but you beat me to it.

I would not be surprised if in future  cruise lines  will require proof of immunization against COVID-19, once one is available, and possibly for a range of other illnesses.

 

Hard to know about the future Covid-19 vaccine since it does not exist at this time, but some existing vaccines such as the one for yellow fever are not recommended for people over age 60.

[brisalta]

6 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Hard to know about the future Covid-19 vaccine since it does not exist at this time, but some existing vaccines such as the one for yellow fever are not recommended for people over age 60.

 

Never heard that about the one for yellow fever but I got that one about 40 years ago.

[caribill]

34 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

Never heard that about the one for yellow fever but I got that one about 40 years ago.

 

They are only good for 10 years, so your immunity ran out about 30 years ago.

 

As far as the age restriction:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/yf.html

[HotRoot]

That article is from 2011.  About 5 years ago they decided yellow fever vaccine is good for life.

[jagoffee]

14 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

I was going to suggest the same but you beat me to it.

I would not be surprised if in future  cruise lines  will require proof of immunization against COVID-19, once one is available, and possibly for a range of other illnesses.

I would be very surprised, since they have never required proof of immunization for anything as a general cruise requirement.  

[dan4182]

It's not a matter of over capacity. The airlines and auto manufacturers both had over capacity. There were a lot of empty seats on airlines in the recent past. In contrast, most ships are sailing at or near capacity. Not sure where the savings would come.
 

I don’t know what airline(s) you have been flying on lately but, prior to coronavirus, every plane I have flown on has been packed like a can of sardines.


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[Ombud]

It would benefit ME if I could use FCCs across lines but that isn't going to happen. So I'll probably pay for my next Carnival cruise & some FCC will expire. 😞

[caribill]

5 hours ago, HotRoot said:

That article is from 2011.  About 5 years ago they decided yellow fever vaccine is good for life.

 

Here is one from last year

https://www.cdc.gov/yellowfever/vaccine/vaccine-recommendations.html

 

It says:

"However, travelers going to areas with ongoing outbreaks may consider getting a booster dose of yellow fever vaccine if it has been 10 years or more since they were last vaccinated. Certain countries might also require a booster dose of the vaccine"