Surprised at the absence of an Apology from LLP?

[yorky]

3 minutes ago, clojacks said:

Fixed your post....

 

We live in a "sometimes" blame culture.....

I read a quote the other day which said.

” We live in a world where everyone knows their rights, but not their responsibilities” I thought it hit the nail on the head.

[hcat]

42 minutes ago, clojacks said:

This should help to alleviate some stress....

 

https://www1.salary.com/Lisa-Lutoff-Perlo-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-ROYAL-CARIBBEAN-CRUISES-LTD.html

Holy Moley!

Wow!  Yikes!

Hard to Believe!!

Had No Idea!

Don' t cry for Lisa!

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, clojacks said:

This should help to alleviate some stress....

 

https://www1.salary.com/Lisa-Lutoff-Perlo-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-ROYAL-CARIBBEAN-CRUISES-LTD.html

Her 2018 total compensation was about 60% of what the Pres/CEOs of Norwegian, Costa, Holland America, Regent  and some other lines earned.  

[hcat]

51 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Her 2018 total compensation was about 60% of what the Pres/CEOs of Norwegian, Costa, Holland America, Regent  and some other lines earned.  

Guess those are ( were ) great jobs to have...

[PTC DAWG]

Me, I would have peeved if my ship was made to turn around and cancel my cruise.  No apology needed, IMHO.  

[PTC DAWG]

3 hours ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

 

I have not canceled my Jan. 2021 cruise but I find it very unlikely I'll be able to go on that cruise absent a discovery of a miracle cure for COVID-19.  There certainly won't be a vaccine by then.  I am more hopeful for my 2022 booking, but even that is an unknown.  

We will never be totally safe from a virus....I'd cruise tomorrow...as long as folks from NY/NJ area couldn't board.  That seems to be by FAR the hardest hit area of the Country.  Many areas of the Country, this is a big nothing burger.  

[C-Dragons]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes these days some people tend to be more grumpy than usual including me!  Never mind cruise withdrawal- I am suffering from some serious Cabin Fever!😀 Help!

I'm sure Lena can help relieve some of that stress when you take her for a walk. 😊 🐕

[clojacks]

11 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

We will never be totally safe from a virus....I'd cruise tomorrow...as long as folks from NY/NJ area couldn't board.  That seems to be by FAR the hardest hit area of the Country.  Many areas of the Country, this is a big nothing burger.  

Oh God....not this again...

[Quo Vadis?]

17 hours ago, davekathy said:

I stopped wearing rose colored glasses a long time ago.

We might have the same optometrist.

[Jeremiah1212]

I know there is quite a tribe of the "Blame LLP" group here - everything from cruise prices to throw pillows, but decisions of this magnitude to suspend operations were probably coming from the Richard Fain level of leadership. Obviously CEO's of subsidiaries were involved but this was/is massive.

 

Having a CEO release a punch-list of specific items they apologize for is pretty far fetched. I think some have forgotten how incredibly quickly this entire situation escalated. There are plenty of scenarios involved where this is simply no good answer.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I know there is quite a tribe of the "Blame LLP" group here - everything from cruise prices to throw pillows, but decisions of this magnitude to suspend operations were probably coming from the Richard Fain level of leadership. Obviously CEO's of subsidiaries were involved but this was/is massive.

 

Having a CEO release a punch-list of specific items they apologize for is pretty far fetched. I think some have forgotten how incredibly quickly this entire situation escalated. There are plenty of scenarios involved where this is simply no good answer.

 

How about an apology form Richard Fain, for promoting LLP?  

 

Certainly if it was Fain's call to trick the March 15th Eclipse crowd down to Chile, and leave them stranded, followed by lying to San Diego health officials, he can come clean about that too.

[omeinv]

1 hour ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

How about an apology form Richard Fain, for promoting LLP?  

 

Certainly if it was Fain's call to trick the March 15th Eclipse crowd down to Chile, and leave them stranded, followed by lying to San Diego health officials, he can come clean about that too.

As one who was in Santiago, hoping to board the Eclipse March 15; I can assure I was not "Tricked". 

 

I had the opportunity to use the "Cruise with Confidence" if I had decided not to go.  I went knowing full well that cruises were in a state of flux at that moment. 

 

Like everyone else - including Celebrity - I found out about 24 hours before the cruise it wasn't going to happen.  Was this inconvenient?  Yes.  Was it Celebrity's fault?  No.  I wasn't "stranded", nor was anyone else.  Flights back to the US were readily available, and there were no significant flight restrictions yet in place.

 

Your account fails to acknowledge that, in mid-March much that appears "obvious" now, was in fact not yet apparent.  This has become a very common theme here on Cruise Critic.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[clojacks]

11 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

 

Your account fails to acknowledge that, in mid-March much that appears "obvious" now, was in fact not yet apparent.  This has become a very common theme here on Cruise Critic.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

"in fact"....really??

[omeinv]

3 minutes ago, clojacks said:

"in fact"....really??

Really. 

 

Much that it known now was not yet known on March 15th.  Witness the fact I flew internationally that day, arriving in Houston, without US officials conducting any Corona Virus screening.  That's just one example proving my point, so yes "really".

 

The idea that cruise lines had some vast inside knowledge and they chose to operate in spite of this would be laughable if it didn't point out the willingness of people to buy in to conspiracy theories. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by omeinv

[LMaxwell]

Are you actually SURPRISED?  Disappointed, I would understand. But actually surprised by it? I am not surprised. CCL Execs are on TV constantly having to explain away decisions and make the best of the situation.  RCCL has managed to keep even Richard Fain to a fairly low profile; they don't want to put more execs out in the public eye at this time. So, no, I am not surprised. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

35 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

The idea that cruise lines had some vast inside knowledge and they chose to operate in spite of this would be laughable if it didn't point out the willingness of people to buy in to conspiracy theories. 

 

 

You are aware that cruises were cancelled by RCI as of March 13th?  If there was no vast inside knowledge about coronavirus, why did cruising come to a halt?  

 

You may think it is laughable that the cruise line would understand the dangers of cover-19, but you don't get to speak for your fellow travelers, many of whom went unknowingly to the San Antonio port, had to buy expensive airfare home, and were not notified until the 16th that their cruise had been cancelled.  

 

1 hour ago, omeinv said:

Your account fails to acknowledge that, in mid-March much that appears "obvious" now, was in fact not yet apparent.  This has become a very common theme here on Cruise Critic.

 

Your failure to see this coming, does not mean the rest of us are looking at this in hind sight.

 

 

 

[omeinv]

10 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

 

 

You may think it is laughable that the cruise line would understand the dangers of cover-19, but you don't get to speak for your fellow travelers, many of whom went unknowingly to the San Antonio port, had to buy expensive airfare home, and were not notified until the 16th that their cruise had been cancelled.  

 

 

Your failure to see this coming, does not mean the rest of us are looking at this in hind sight.

 

 

 

 

First, I was one who went to Santiago (with the plan to go to San Antonio on 3-15-20 to embark).  You are simultaneously claiming others made this trip "unknowingly"; and then that the cruise lines had knowledge. 

 

If a person made that trip without awareness that Corona Virus was an issue, they had to be beyond ignorant, and actively in denial.  That being said, the knowledge available was not enough to convince those who made the trip that the gamble - and anyone with any awareness would recognize the potential for the cruise to be cancelled - was worth it. 

 

Celebrity made me, you and everyone booked the offer to cancel for a 100% future cruise credit.  I chose not to accept that offer, apparently you did to.  The very language in the offer, let alone it's reason for existence, was the Corona Virus; so the idea the cruise line "tricked" anyone is disingenuous. 

 

You write "cruises were cancelled by RCI as of March 13th", you conveniently omit that this was for cruises departing the US.  The decision to cancel this particular cruise was made the next day. 

 

You want to claim to be both "unknowing" on March 14, 2020, and not judging with the benefit of hindsight today.  With that as your position, at least one facet exposes your dishonesty. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited April 17, 2020 by omeinv

[clojacks]

14 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

 

If a person made that trip without awareness that Corona Virus was an issue, they had to be beyond ignorant, and actively in denial.  That being said, the knowledge available was not enough to convince those who made the trip that the gamble - and anyone with any awareness would recognize the potential for the cruise to be cancelled - was worth it. 

 

 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

How kind of you to so politely take it upon yourself to describe everyone who knew little to nothing of the Coronavirus as "beyond ignorant". While Coronavirus was ramping up in Asia, we were on the Connie on our way to Dubai to Singapore when we were turned around. Most of us North Americans who decide to follow the news presented to us by multiple sources knew what was coming. But, on this cruise we were probably less than half the population on board. They were a number of Indians and Middle Easterners, who, I am going to generalize here, culturally may not exhibit the same hygienic habits as us and possibly don't have the same access to advisements that we get on how to keep one safe. Almost daily, I would see little elderly Middle eastern/Indian appearing ladies ducking their whole head under the sneeze guards to grab food from the back rows in the buffet. Were the "Beyond ignorant" or just not as fortunate as us to have readily available information on how to keep or fellow cruise members safer? Maybe where they live, daily updates of world health issues are a luxury that not all get, as opposed to a commonly available update every 15 minutes like we receive. How about recognizing everyone doesn't share your viewpoint Harris.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, omeinv said:

 

Your account fails to acknowledge that, in mid-March much that appears "obvious" now, was in fact not yet apparent.  This has become a very common theme here on Cruise Critic.

While I agree that we know much more today than we did in mid-March, the writing was certainly on the wall as early as the first week of March. We had a cruise booked for mid-April (that we should be on right now), but during that first week of March, DW and I discussed cancelling it because all of the available information indicated that taking the cruise was far too much of a risk. To us the conclusion was very obvious and we consequently cancelled on March 8. The only thing that we didn't know at the time was that several weeks hence, Celebrity would finally cancel the cruise and offer the choice of 125% FCC or a refund. Had we known that, we would have waited.

 

I'd suggest that the issue with Celebrity not taking action sooner has more to do with poor risk management than it does with lack of information.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Fouremco

[omeinv]

1 minute ago, clojacks said:

How kind of you to so politely take it upon yourself to describe everyone who knew little to nothing of the Coronavirus as "beyond ignorant". While Coronavirus was ramping up in Asia, we were on the Connie on our way to Dubai to Singapore when we were turned around. Most of us North Americans who decide to follow the news presented to us by multiple sources knew what was coming. But, on this cruise we were probably less than half the population on board. They were a number of Indians and Middle Easterners, who, I am going to generalize here, culturally may not exhibit the same hygienic habits as us and possibly don't have the same access to advisements that we get on how to keep one safe. Almost daily, I would see little elderly Middle eastern/Indian appearing ladies ducking their whole head under the sneeze guards to grab food from the back rows in the buffet. Were the "Beyond ignorant" or just not as fortunate as us to have readily available information on how to keep or fellow cruise members safer? Maybe where they live, daily updates of world health issues are a luxury that not all get, as opposed to a commonly available update every 15 minutes like we receive. How about recognizing everyone doesn't share your viewpoint Harris.

I was responding to comments specifically regarding those who flew to Chile, for the scheduled March 15, 2020 Eclipse cruise. 

 

By that time Celebrity had advisements on their website, and had sent emails as well.  Then at airports, and on planes, there were signs and announcements.  '

 

I can certainly recognize not everyone shares my viewpoint.  However, when people claim that they simultaneously had no way of knowing something, and allege that Celebrity concealed knowledge they had, that's not a "viewpoint" that's a deliberate attempt to misstate. 

 

Finally, if you witnessed the behavior your describe on your cruise, Celebrity has abundant staff available, and you could have taken enough responsibility upon yourself to notify a staff member.  I'm certain they'd have addressed it.  Who knows, they may have even apologized to you for the experience. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[omeinv]

Just now, Fouremco said:

 Had we know that, we would have waited.

 

 

 

The very definition of "Hindsight".

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[Fouremco]

Just now, omeinv said:

The very definition of "Hindsight".

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Exactly. We had no way of knowing what Celebrity might do weeks in the future. On the other hand, in early March Celebrity was well aware of the risks associated with continuing with its cruises as the information was already available.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

19 minutes ago, omeinv said:

First, I was one who went to Santiago (with the plan to go to San Antonio on 3-15-20 to embark).  You are simultaneously claiming others made this trip "unknowingly"; and then that the cruise lines had knowledge. 

 

The claim is that 200+ passengers went to the port of San Antonio, unaware that the cruise had been cancelled.  Did the cruise line have knowledge?  We can only hope.

 

23 minutes ago, omeinv said:

If a person made that trip without awareness that Corona Virus was an issue, they had to be beyond ignorant, and actively in denial.  That being said, the knowledge available was not enough to convince those who made the trip that the gamble - and anyone with any awareness would recognize the potential for the cruise to be cancelled - was worth it. 

 

You'll have to convince the rest of your would-be fellow passengers of that.  You have yet to address (A) the lack of communication, and (B) the lack of help returning passengers home.

 

29 minutes ago, omeinv said:

 

You want to claim to be both "unknowing" on March 14, 2020, and not judging with the benefit of hindsight today.  With that as your position, at least one facet exposes your dishonesty. 

 

 

It is truly incredible, watching someone defend a cruise line that would deceive passengers, lie to health officials, withhold refunds for months on end.  But someone who warned about the dangers in advance, with opinions that have not shifted, that's where you draw the line.  Incredible.

 

 

[hcat]

3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

We will never be totally safe from a virus....I'd cruise tomorrow...as long as folks from NY/NJ area couldn't board.  That seems to be by FAR the hardest hit area of the Country.  Many areas of the Country, this is a big nothing burger.  

Nothing burger????

C'mon.....

[ipeeinthepool]

6 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

It is truly incredible, watching someone defend a cruise line that would deceive passengers, lie to health officials, withhold refunds for months on end.  But someone who warned about the dangers in advance, with opinions that have not shifted, that's where you draw the line.  Incredible.

 

So does this mean that you're done cruising with Celebrity?