"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

[getting older slowly]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I propose we stop this discussion now. 

 Good idea    someone will be disappointed 21% of the posts

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, clo said:

Our grands think I'm silly.

Better that than think you are "annoying". Maybe you should not let them read these boards. LOL

[clo]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Better that than think you are "annoying". Maybe you should not let them read these boards. LOL

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner LOL.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner LOL.

Ooh, ooh. What do I win. How do I collect if we have to be at least 6 feet apart.

[rattanchair]

Fishermen never grow old. We just smell that way.

[clo]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Ooh, ooh. What do I win. How do I collect if we have to be at least 6 feet apart.

I'll remove my mask and blow you virtual kisses 🙂

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I agree, time will tell.

 

A year from now we can see if Belgiums death rate remains near three times that of Sweden.

 

Some people in Norway think that Sweden may have done the right thing. A year from now we can see if they are right or wrong.  

 

Norway's numbers (mortality rate) sure look good and they seem to be doing a good job with testing.  Sweden is right there with Ireland and the Netherlands and doing much better than the UK, France, Spain, and Italy and much worse than others in Europe.  To me is seems the numbers are all over the place.   Belgium's numbers are crazy high.  I read that it may be a counting problem.  Of course, I can't know if that is true but I suspect there are counting errors throughout the data.  

 

There is a lot of discussion about methods to reduce spread.  Clearly the lifestyle and general health of a population has to come into play.  The evidence is clear that CV is much more severe for those with unhealthy lifestyles/obesity.  Hopefully a wake-up call for future generations.  

 

Edit: Sorry -- just saw you wanted to drop this conversation.  

Edited May 12, 2020 by ldubs
Oops.

[chipmaster]

What SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID19 has shown is that the world will never be the same again and Bill Gate's presentiment message

 

We are a wild species, with many wild dangerous habits and with our development to date so far have avoided the pandemic but the Contagion nightmare is now true.

 

Cruising, traveling, gatherings will NEVER be the same, we never thought much about getting together on a cruise with a few thousand people and sharing deck chairs, elevators, handrails, and of course the dining room and buffet.   Now we know what can happen.. no way to prevent it or reduce without very big changes

 

For your enjoyment;  

 

[sverigecruiser]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Norway's numbers (mortality rate) sure look good and they seem to be doing a good job with testing.  Sweden is right there with Ireland and the Netherlands and doing much better than the UK, France, Spain, and Italy and much worse than others in Europe.  To me is seems the numbers are all over the place.   Belgium's numbers are crazy high.  I read that it may be a counting problem.  Of course, I can't know if that is true but I suspect there are counting errors throughout the data.  

 

There is a lot of discussion about methods to reduce spread.  Clearly the lifestyle and general health of a population has to come into play.  The evidence is clear that CV is much more severe for those with unhealthy lifestyles/obesity.  Hopefully a wake-up call for future generations.  

 

Edit: Sorry -- just saw you wanted to drop this conversation.  

 

It was more that me and navybankerteacher couldn't discuss this. We agreed about that.

 

From the beginning there was defenitely a counting problem. Some countries only counted deaths in hospitals while other, for example Sweden, counted all deaths. That is one of all factors to consider when comparing countries.

 

Another factor is that in some countries people live much closer to each other, for example Italy, than in other countries, for example Sweden.

 

A countrys general health must also be an important factor and also how good the health care system. So far our health care system seems okay for handling this but it can't be compared to Norways.

 

From the beginning one of the most important reasons why the authorities here didn't wanted to close the schools was, who should then take care of the children? If parents working at for example hospitals needed to be home and take care of their children who should save the sick people? How is that done in the US? 

 

The last factor I will mention now is where the virus is spread. One of our biggest problems is that the virus is very spread in nursing home. Around 1000 of our deaths are from nursing homes. It's a failure that we haven't been able to protect thoose who needs it the most.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Ooh, ooh. What do I win. How do I collect if we have to be at least 6 feet apart.

 

4 hours ago, clo said:

I'll remove my mask and blow you virtual kisses 🙂

My heart is aflutter.

[rattanchair]

Get a room.

[dsrdsrdsr]

5 hours ago, chipmaster said:

What SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID19 has shown is that the world will never be the same again and Bill Gate's presentiment message

 

We are a wild species, with many wild dangerous habits and with our development to date so far have avoided the pandemic but the Contagion nightmare is now true.

 

Cruising, traveling, gatherings will NEVER be the same, we never thought much about getting together on a cruise with a few thousand people and sharing deck chairs, elevators, handrails, and of course the dining room and buffet.   Now we know what can happen.. no way to prevent it or reduce without very big changes

 

Some of us aren't bothered about changing it.  I'd prefer not to get coronavirus, of course, but assuming we eventually get a vaccine, then nothing will have changed.  I will continue travelling by ship with hundreds of other passengers, I will continue sharing germs, and my body will continue fighting them off (something it is very good at).

 

As you say, very big changes would be needed to stop sharing germs.  (Stopping at home, primarily.)  The big changes aren't worth it.

[chipmaster]

34 minutes ago, dsrdsrdsr said:

Some of us aren't bothered about changing it.  I'd prefer not to get coronavirus, of course, but assuming we eventually get a vaccine, then nothing will have changed.  I will continue travelling by ship with hundreds of other passengers, I will continue sharing germs, and my body will continue fighting them off (something it is very good at).

 

As you say, very big changes would be needed to stop sharing germs.  (Stopping at home, primarily.)  The big changes aren't worth it.

 

1) A vaccine is years away, but who knows maybe humanity will get luck.   I personally don't believe in luck you set yourself up to be lucky and we have been doing everything wrong  so far

2) What has the track record been for vaccines, not that good, see 1)

3) All plagues / pandemic die out eventually but most certainly it won't be the same for years or longer

 

Pandemics always end even the bubonic plague.. but not sure what you mean big changes aren't worth it, I agree we could do nothing which is somewhere a little of right where we are, many will die and we'll achieve similar level like the annual flu, the weakest die off every year and after a few cycles only the strong survive and we go about our regular business. 

[ilikeanswers]

4 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

Pandemics always end even the bubonic plague.. but not sure what you mean big changes aren't worth it, I agree we could do nothing which is somewhere a little of right where we are, many will die and we'll achieve similar level like the annual flu, the weakest die off every year and after a few cycles only the strong survive and we go about our regular business. 

 

The Bubonic plague came back again and again throughout history. The only reason the plagues reduced (not ended, there have been recent outbreaks) is because living standards in large swathes of the world have risen making it environmentally impossible for it to infect humans. It essentially took big changes to restrict Bubonic plague infections. I don't think it is comparable to COVID19 that seems to thrive in first world countries😕. 

 

 

[chipmaster]

4 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The Bubonic plague came back again and again throughout history. The only reason the plagues reduced (not ended, there have been recent outbreaks) is because living standards in large swathes of the world have risen making it environmentally impossible for it to infect humans. It essentially took big changes to restrict Bubonic plague infections. I don't think it is comparable to COVID19 that seems to thrive in first world countries😕. 

 

 

 

Well the flu is a virus that comes back every year even with a annual cocktail vaccine we all can take and kills how many?

 

The SARS-CoV-2 hasn't mutated too much and is a bit different than the flu but like SARS and MERS no vaccine for those either.  I expect it will come around every year and every year people will die from it, less each year and more among the weakest each year.   

 

Maybe we'll all get as good at hygene and mask wearing as some countries and keep it down a bit.

 

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, dsrdsrdsr said:

but assuming we eventually get a vaccine, then nothing will have changed. 

I read and shared somewhere here that even IF there's a vaccine that's proven effective, it will take years and years to produce enough of it to widely vaccinate and countries will be competing for it. So I'm guessing (and that's all it is) is minimum five years. Minimum. Maybe ten?

[clo]

31 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The Bubonic plague came back again and again throughout history. The only reason the plagues reduced (not ended, there have been recent outbreaks) is because living standards in large swathes of the world have risen making it environmentally impossible for it to infect humans. It essentially took big changes to restrict Bubonic plague infections. I don't think it is comparable to COVID19 that seems to thrive in first world countries😕. 

 

 

Does it make a difference that one is from a bacteria and the other from a virus?

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Does it make a difference that one is from a bacteria and the other from a virus?

Science should be more advanced in 2020 than in the years of the plagues.

That is why there are cures for Cancer and Parkinson’s .Obviously the last sentence was facetious.I cannot fathom why so much money has been donated for those 2 diseases and a cure has not been developed.

Three of my friends died from Pancreatic Cancer,three From Stomach Cancer,2 from Lung Cancer and I have Parkinsons .

Edited May 13, 2020 by lenquixote66

[calliopecruiser]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Does it make a difference that one is from a bacteria and the other from a virus?

I believe there are fewer vaccines against bacterial diseases than against viral diseases, but there is a "plague vaccine" against Y.pestis. 

[clo]

4 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

there is a "plague vaccine" against Y.pestis. 

Yeah, I read about that. Interesting 'stuff.'

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Does it make a difference that one is from a bacteria and the other from a virus?

 

Not really, it is just the case that some infectious diseases are more or less controllable by changes to the environment. In order for the Bubonic epidemic to start a human needs to be bitten by a carrier of the Yersinia Pestis. As long as you can keep humans and carriers separated it makes it unlikely a Bubonic Plague epidemic will happen. It is the same with the Zika virus as long as the mosquito that carries the virus is kept away from humans it reduces the chances of an epidemic. The difference with SARS-CoV-2 is it has become highly adapted to human hosts and is no longer the same virus that came out of the original animal carrier so therefore there is no need for reinfection from the original carrier to strengthen the spread.

[clo]

18 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Not really, it is just the case that some infectious diseases are more or less controllable by changes to the environment. In order for the Bubonic epidemic to start a human needs to be bitten by a carrier of the Yersinia Pestis. As long as you can keep humans and carriers separated it makes it unlikely a Bubonic Plague epidemic will happen. It is the same with the Zika virus as long as the mosquito that carries the virus is kept away from humans it reduces the chances of an epidemic. The difference with SARS-CoV-2 is it has become highly adapted to human hosts and is no longer the same virus that came out of the original animal carrier so therefore there is no need for reinfection from the original carrier to strengthen the spread.

Thanks a million. I have a huge amount of curiosity around the science and medicine regarding this.

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

From the beginning one of the most important reasons why the authorities here didn't wanted to close the schools was, who should then take care of the children? If parents working at for example hospitals needed to be home and take care of their children who should save the sick people? How is that done in the US? 

 

 

 

I previously posted about rules in place here for day/child care facilities in my state, but can't remember where or when.  Anyway, they are allowed to operate under certain restrictions for the reason you ask.   Other than child care facilities, I know of grand parents who watch their grand kids while the parents work.  Other than that, I don't know how essential workers were handling kid sitting.   

 

Anyway, I'm very interested in your country's approach.  Thanks for sharing.  

 

[sverigecruiser]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

I know of grand parents who watch their grand kids while the parents work.

 

Anyway, I'm very interested in your country's approach.  Thanks for sharing.  

 

 

Grand parents often take care of the children here when they are sick or the school for some reason is closed. The problem now is that older people shall meet as few people as possible! That's also a reason not to close schools, grand parents shall not take care of the children!

 

You can check the Public Health Agency of Swedens site: folkhalsomyndigheten.se

 

It's a Swedish site but in the upper right corner you can choose English and read much of the information.

[TheOldBear]

14 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

I believe there are fewer vaccines against bacterial diseases than against viral diseases, but there is a "plague vaccine" against Y.pestis. 

 

In was in the list of shots I received as part of a Navy 'pre deployment' package in 1981 & 82 [three shot series]. These were done with a needle, most of the 'shots' were air injector.