Will you have to take off your mask to get your picture taken for your cruise card?

[lenquixote66]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Len, I've spent a good bit of time thinking about this over the last three plus years. I think it's a combination of ignorance (not stupidity) and closed mindedness. 

As you are aware,we do not agree on every topic discussed here but I have great respect for you .I asked you once if you ever did research as part of a job.I do not believe that you replied.When I was in college Inhad a part time job for Life Magazine.I and others with whom I worked had to research individuals who submitted stories to life who were not employees of the magazine.

[clo]

1 minute ago, lenquixote66 said:

.I asked you once if you ever did research as part of a job.I do not believe that you replied.

Nah. A lot of medical background which encouraged my "info-junkie" proclivities 🙂

[lenquixote66]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Nah. A lot of medical background which encouraged my "info-junkie" proclivities 🙂

My wife was an RN for 27 years (second career) .

[ldubs]

On 5/17/2020 at 4:12 PM, wowzz said:

Indeed, but with everything that is going on, you'd have to be pretty stupid to take any sort of holiday without insurance cover. 

I know many Americans have private health care  - I wonder how many of those policies cover pandemics? 

 

I think you guys might be talking about two different things.   While not required (that I know of) you are correct that many American's purchase private travel health insurance.  Our domestic health insurance policies typically do not provide international coverage beyond first aid type emergency room visits, hence the need for the travel insurance policy.   But our domestic policies do cover pandemics when treatment is in the US.  

[ldubs]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:52 PM, mom says said:

But look at the rest of that equation. First of all, assuming that you could have 40 million doses of the vaccine ready for use all at the same time for just one state is, to out it mildly, highly unlikely. Plus have an adequate supply if syringes, swabs, injectors and refrigeration at every place.

 

Then you have to be able to adequately staff those 800 places. Now. I'm math challenged, but according to my calculations,  for a 10 hour day, you would need an average of 105 people at each place who ONLY did the injections, at about one patient per minute. That's not counting support personnel. So you need well in excess if 83,000 trained personnel to do this. Where are you going to find them? As the PP stated, it's nonsense. Any vaccination program is going to take months.

 

Yes, months.  My point was that quote about 50,000 per day at 800 locations is completely meaningless and only causes more fear.  Simply foolish.  

[wowzz]

17 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I think you guys might be talking about two different things.   While not required (that I know of) you are correct that many American's purchase private travel health insurance.  Our domestic health insurance policies typically do not provide international coverage beyond first aid type emergency room visits, hence the need for the travel insurance policy.   But our domestic policies do cover pandemics when treatment is in the US.  

Sorry, yes I did mean insurance for foreign travel.

In the UK it is mandatory to have insurance cover for cruise holidays (and indeed for most forms of package holidays.)

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, yes I did mean insurance for foreign travel.

In the UK it is mandatory to have insurance cover for cruise holidays (and indeed for most forms of package holidays.)

 

No worries.  I kind of like the idea of making it a requirement for tourists entering our country.      

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

No worries.  I kind of like the idea of making it a requirement for tourists entering our country.      

Anyone entering the US without medical insurance cover needs their head examining!

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Anyone entering the US without medical insurance cover needs their head examining!

 

Huh, wouldn't that be true of any country now days.  

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Huh, wouldn't that be true of any country now days.  

 

I think the USA is still regarded as the most expensive in medical treatments. In Australia the mainstream travel insurances are put into two categoies: including USA or excluding USA. Any time you include USA the cost of the premium goes up😝. It is probably also why our travel insurance the medical limit is usually something like unlimited or something ridiculous like ten million dollars that is basically another way of saying unlimited whereas from what I have read on these boards USA travel insurance has far smaller medical expense coverage which I was thinking might indicate that the insurance companies in America seems to believe that overseas medical treatment is much cheaper than in the USA.

Edited May 20, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think the USA is still regarded as the most expensive in medical treatments. In Australia the mainstream travel insurances are put into two categoies: including USA or excluding USA. Any time you include USA the cost of the premium goes up😝. It is probably also why our travel insurance the medical limit is usually something like unlimited or something ridiculous like ten million dollars that is basically another way of saying unlimited whereas from what I have read on these boards USA travel insurance has far smaller medical expense coverage which I was thinking might indicate that the insurance companies in America seems to believe that overseas medical treatment is much cheaper than in the USA.

 

That makes sense.  I was putting it in the context of CV.  I think I have CV on the brain.  

[clo]

20 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Yes, months.  My point was that quote about 50,000 per day at 800 locations is completely meaningless and only causes more fear.  Simply foolish.  

And since I shared that I'll disagree with you respectfully. As I wrote then that was an extreme example to prove the point that the needed mass vaccinations are going to take a long time to make and then inoculate people. Not foolish at all and certainly not simply foolish.

[ldubs]

17 minutes ago, clo said:

And since I shared that I'll disagree with you respectfully. As I wrote then that was an extreme example to prove the point that the needed mass vaccinations are going to take a long time to make and then inoculate people. Not foolish at all and certainly not simply foolish.

 

I'm sorry, I thought you were quoting someone.  The quote proves absolutely nothing with regards to how long it will take to develop a vaccine. I don't know where that came from.  I must have missed it before.   I'm sorry,  the quote "proves" nothing about how long it will take to vaccinate everyone.  In a previous post, you called it hyperbole.  So by your own admission, it was not to be taken seriously.  Now,  please do not twist this into my saying it is foolish to say it will take time to inoculate everyone.     

          

[clo]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Now,  please do not twist this into my saying it is foolish to say it will take time to inoculate everyone.     

Dear, you used the term foolish.

 

Here's the link:

 

https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-vaccine-recovery-in-california-cases/6154329/

 

The point being getting even this whole country, much less the planet, vaccinated is going to take probably and optimistically a couple of years. And we older people will likely be far, far down the list with "first responders," children and their parents and on and on. Go in peace or to sleep 🙂

[ldubs]

55 minutes ago, clo said:

Dear, you used the term foolish.

 

Here's the link:

 

https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-vaccine-recovery-in-california-cases/6154329/

 

The point being getting even this whole country, much less the planet, vaccinated is going to take probably and optimistically a couple of years. And we older people will likely be far, far down the list with "first responders," children and their parents and on and on. Go in peace or to sleep 🙂

 

Yes Dearie,  I know what term I used for the quote.   I never said the administering vaccine to everyone would not take a long time.    

 

[clo]

12 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Yes Dearie,  I know what term I used for the quote.   I never said the administering vaccine to everyone would not take a long time.    

 

Which was my point. Likely years.

[cruisemom42]

7 hours ago, clo said:

And we older people will likely be far, far down the list with "first responders," children and their parents and on and on. Go in peace or to sleep 🙂

 

Actually, given the MUCH higher mortality rate in the 65 or 70+ age group, I imagine they will be among the first on the list.

[clo]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Actually, given the MUCH higher mortality rate in the 65 or 70+ age group, I imagine they will be among the first on the list.

Before "first responders," children and their parents? I hope not.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Actually, given the MUCH higher mortality rate in the 65 or 70+ age group, I imagine they will be among the first on the list.

Yes, of course - along with children and first responders. 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

children

And their parents?

 

That's a long list, isn't it?

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Actually, given the MUCH higher mortality rate in the 65 or 70+ age group, I imagine they will be among the first on the list.

Perhaps - but logically certainly AFTER  first responders and other  “essential”  workers - which includes teachers, transport workers, truck drivers, grocers, generally anyone ordinarily employed (why would they be paid for their time if what they did with that time was not important to someone else?).

 

Other things being equal, wouldn’t someone anticipating more future years come before someone not employed, nearing the end of his/her road anyway?    

 

If there is a prolonged shortage of vaccine paired with an ongoing contagion, wouldn’t the rules of triage apply?

Edited May 21, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[cruisemom42]

First responders yes and others on the front line.

 

But mortality rates from COVID-19 in younger age groups has been so low that one wonders whether they should really be a priority?

 

Here are the mortality rates by age group from NYC as of May 13:

           

0 - 17 years old:  9 deaths (0.06%)
18 - 44 years old:  601 deaths (3.9%)
45 - 64 years old:  3,413 deaths (22.4%)
65 - 74 years old:  3,788 deaths (24.9%)
75+ years old:  7,419 deaths (48.7%)
 

Only 9 deaths in those younger than 18....

 

I'm not about to start playing God, but if it were me, I'd focus on preventing the greatest number of deaths, not on who's got the most years ahead of them....

 

Edited to add:  Forgot to add source:   https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Edited May 21, 2020 by cruisemom42

[Flatbush Flyer]

57 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

....I'm not about to start playing God, but if it were me, I'd focus on preventing the greatest number of deaths, not on who's got the most years ahead of them....

 

Agreed.

Sounds like some folks with other ideas have watched Soylent Green one too many times.

[ilikeanswers]

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

First responders yes and others on the front line.

 

But mortality rates from COVID-19 in younger age groups has been so low that one wonders whether they should really be a priority?

 

Here are the mortality rates by age group from NYC as of May 13:

           

0 - 17 years old:  9 deaths (0.06%)
18 - 44 years old:  601 deaths (3.9%)
45 - 64 years old:  3,413 deaths (22.4%)
65 - 74 years old:  3,788 deaths (24.9%)
75+ years old:  7,419 deaths (48.7%)
 

Only 9 deaths in those younger than 18....

 

I'm not about to start playing God, but if it were me, I'd focus on preventing the greatest number of deaths, not on who's got the most years ahead of them....

 

Edited to add:  Forgot to add source:   https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

Now there is evidence that young people are getting Kawasaki like disease from COVID19 that can leave lifelong damage to the body. Looking back at the death statistics countries have realised that heart attacks went up four fold during their epidemics. So now they are questioning if those deaths were not COVID19 related. We have only scratched the surface of what this disease is doing to the human body. When we learn more in the end we find the disease is just as deadly in the young😳.

[clo]

18 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Now there is evidence that young people are getting Kawasaki like disease from COVID19 that can leave lifelong damage to the body. Looking back at the death statistics countries have realised that heart attacks went up four fold during their epidemics. So now they are questioning if those deaths were not COVID19 related. We have only scratched the surface of what this disease is doing to the human body. When we learn more in the end we find the disease is just as deadly in the young😳.

Rather than just click on "like" I want to strongly support what you wrote. It's only when we have enough long-term data that we'll know - after the fact - just what the consequences are currently. And since we won't for quite a while, I'd vote for kids and their parents and teachers to go ahead of my senior group.