More Cancellations Imminent?

[Peter G.]

Am booked on Aurora for South America circumnavigation in Jan 2021 but now wondering whether to pay the balance (which is substantial) or transfer to a short trip next Spring and try again in 2023. Any thoughts/advice?

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, Peter G. said:

Am booked on Aurora for South America circumnavigation in Jan 2021 but now wondering whether to pay the balance (which is substantial) or transfer to a short trip next Spring and try again in 2023. Any thoughts/advice?

I am in a similar situation Peter, being booked on a sector of the Arcadia worldie next year. The World Cruise may go ahead but I do have significant doubts. I'm going to talk to my TA to see what general thoughts she has. I booked through a specialist cruise agency.

[Purdey16]

3 hours ago, ann141 said:

So I am I.Are you praying a lot that the cruise will go ahead or because we will be the guinea pigs!!!

I think you are also going on Ventura in January 2021 same as us??

That it will go ahead Ann , and after listening to the news tonight it’s positive about this drug that can be given to reduce the death rate when catching covid , I don’t mind being a guinea pig because I think they will be extra clean and carefull at first , and yes I’m on the same cruise in January as you 

[Splice the mainbrace]

5 hours ago, Purdey16 said:

I’m hoping our cruise will be first on October 18th on Arcadia to the Greek isles and med, praying a lot 😎

 

We are currently booked on this cruise but have to pay the deposit by Saturday through our cruise TA. A month ago I was optimistic that things would be OK by that time, however now when the time has come to pay the balance I feel that there is still too much uncertainty and if it goes ahead will the restrictions imposed make the cruise experience worth it.

We will transfer our deposit to another cruise in mid/late 2020 which is a pity because we booked the October cruise at its release in 2018 with a great cabin at a good price.

[ann141]

2 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

We are currently booked on this cruise but have to pay the deposit by Saturday through our cruise TA. A month ago I was optimistic that things would be OK by that time, however now when the time has come to pay the balance I feel that there is still too much uncertainty and if it goes ahead will the restrictions imposed make the cruise experience worth it.

We will transfer our deposit to another cruise in mid/late 2020 which is a pity because we booked the October cruise at its release in 2018 with a great cabin at a good price.

Saturday seems very early to pay the balance for this cruise.Ours isn t due until July 20th.Could you perhaps ask for an extension to the date?We feel things are changing all the time and by mid July I am hoping we will be able to make a more informed decision whether to cruise or transfer the deposit.

[Bertie Doe]

55 minutes ago, Purdey16 said:

That it will go ahead Ann , and after listening to the news tonight it’s positive about this drug that can be given to reduce the death rate when catching covid , I don’t mind being a guinea pig because I think they will be extra clean and carefull at first , and yes I’m on the same cruise in January as you 

 

It'll cut the death rate by one third for those on ventilators and by a fifth, for those on oxygen :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

When you read the article on the cytokine storms associated with covid-19, you'll see there's a long way to go before the appearance of the 'magic bullet'.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200505-cytokine-storms-when-the-body-attacks-itself

 

[Eddie99]

We were booked on the Arcadia eastern Med cruise too.

 

Threw in our hand a couple of weeks ago.  I really don’t want to be a guinea pig on any cruise to check whether they can or can’t work just now.  
 

Maybe we’ll cruise again, maybe not.  So many uncertainties.  I think we have time to wait and see

[No pager thank you]

1 minute ago, ann141 said:

Saturday seems very early to pay the balance for this cruise.Ours isn t due until July 20th.Could you perhaps ask for an extension to the date?We feel things are changing all the time and by mid July I am hoping we will be able to make a more informed decision whether to cruise or transfer the deposit.

I agree that in current circumstances, insisting on a 4 month balance pre-payment appears to be unreasonable, even though that is standard TA practice.

 

However, it will still be the case that even direct bookings will have to make their decision by 15th July onwards around whether to choose to pay their balance.

 

It seems unlikely that passengers will definitely know if their cruise will take place by then (15th July) - therefore an element of risk of entering the refund lottery cannot be avoided, unless the decision is made to defer beforehand.

 

I do hope that cruising can restart.  I just cannot see a confirmed trajectory emerging until much after 15th July.  I would be surprised if the cancellation period were to be extended before then, but then it is anyone's guess at the moment.

[Splice the mainbrace]

Ann141 Did you book directly with P&O? the balance pay date for them is about 3 months before sailing. For our TA it is about 4 months, I think so that they know we are paid up and ready to go (and get a bit of interest?).

 

We have gone from 2 months ago feeling that we would definitely not be going, to about a month ago getting to 50/50 and then back to having too many doubts. Restrictions are being lifted in Europe and UK gradually and the cruise may go ahead, however what necessary changes can be achieved on a cruise ship whilst still maintaining a pleasurable experience still doesn't add up in my head.

[ann141]

2 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I agree that in current circumstances, insisting on a 4 month balance pre-payment appears to be unreasonable, even though that is standard TA practice.

 

However, it will still be the case that even direct bookings will have to make their decision by 15th July onwards around whether to choose to pay their balance.

 

It seems unlikely that passengers will definitely know if their cruise will take place by then (15th July) - therefore an element of risk of entering the refund lottery cannot be avoided, unless the decision is made to defer beforehand.

 

I do hope that cruising can restart.  I just cannot see a confirmed trajectory emerging until much after 15th July.  I would be surprised if the cancellation period were to be extended before then, but then it is anyone's guess at the moment.

As we booked direct our balance isn t due until 20 July.I agree that the date for further cancellations may have not been announced by then but wonder if P and O will have a clearer idea whether they will possibly resume all sailings on 16 Oct or cancel those on some ships and just go ahead with Azura and Britannia translantic sailings? There may have been no further announcements by middle of July but I would sooner leave it until as late as possible because if the cruise is cancelled I would sooner get a refund of the deposit(however long it takes!!) rather than transfer to a different cruise

[ann141]

3 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

Ann141 Did you book directly with P&O? the balance pay date for them is about 3 months before sailing. For our TA it is about 4 months, I think so that they know we are paid up and ready to go (and get a bit of interest?).

 

We have gone from 2 months ago feeling that we would definitely not be going, to about a month ago getting to 50/50 and then back to having too many doubts. Restrictions are being lifted in Europe and UK gradually and the cruise may go ahead, however what necessary changes can be achieved on a cruise ship whilst still maintaining a pleasurable experience still doesn't add up in my head.

Yes.We booked direct with P and O but on another cruise (not P and O) due to sail in September we booked with a TA and the balance was due tomorrow.There was a slight discrepancy with something to do with the booking which I phoned up about and also asked if our balance date could be extended by a week and they extended it by 2 weeks!

[No pager thank you]

16 minutes ago, ann141 said:

As we booked direct our balance isn t due until 20 July.I agree that the date for further cancellations may have not been announced by then but wonder if P and O will have a clearer idea whether they will possibly resume all sailings on 16 Oct or cancel those on some ships and just go ahead with Azura and Britannia translantic sailings? There may have been no further announcements by middle of July but I would sooner leave it until as late as possible because if the cruise is cancelled I would sooner get a refund of the deposit(however long it takes!!) rather than transfer to a different cruise

I understand - I previously had the same dilemma with my now cancelled cruise in early September, in the end it was a couple of days before I had to pay the full balance when P&O pulled the plug.  Just couldn't face 90 days + for the refund of the deposit again, so tacked it on to a late 2021 cruise in the end.

 

I think that the last extension of cancellations came up eight weeks before the end of July, which would cause a problem for some if that happens again.

 

I'm not sure how open P&O will be around their estimation of the viability of cruise ship travel in Europe and the wider world within this timeline - hopefully so.  However, the inevitable problem of a persistent refund backlog from cancellations in phases 1, 2 and 3 may influence them I suspect.  I note on the other thread that another apology has gone out to some, dropping the explicit commitment to 60 days.

 

Just hope that it is better news next time and some people can enjoy a well deserved holiday 😎

[NoFlyGuy]

18 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

Ann141 Did you book directly with P&O? the balance pay date for them is about 3 months before sailing. For our TA it is about 4 months, I think so that they know we are paid up and ready to go (and get a bit of interest?).

 

We have gone from 2 months ago feeling that we would definitely not be going, to about a month ago getting to 50/50 and then back to having too many doubts. Restrictions are being lifted in Europe and UK gradually and the cruise may go ahead, however what necessary changes can be achieved on a cruise ship whilst still maintaining a pleasurable experience still doesn't add up in my head.

 

It's extremely difficult.

We are still waiting for refunds for our May and June cruises ( as posted earlier on another thread, partly my fault)

Out next cruise is the Aurora Christmas and new year Canaries cruise. Due to booking through an agent ( to save a few bob) our balance is due on 31st August.

It might seem a long way off but we all have to weigh up what we think the cruising experience might be like when/if our cruise takes place and therefore have to decide whether to pay the balance.

A further complication was that we had paid for the 'renewal of vows package' on that cruise. (it was our second attempt as 18 months ago we had booked the package on Ventura but had the cancel the cruise for health reasons).

Two other couples we know from earlier cruises have also booked the same cruise and were/are going to be our witnesses.

Assuming for a moment the cruise goes ahead but we decide to abort, whether due to continuing worries about the virus or any on board experience, it's potentially difficult. We'll keep in touch with them and see how the land lies in the months ahead and how they feel.

[No pager thank you]

2 minutes ago, NoFlyGuy said:

A further complication was that we had paid for the 'renewal of vows package' on that cruise. (it was our second attempt as 18 months ago we had booked the package on Ventura but had the cancel the cruise for health reasons).

Two other couples we know from earlier cruises have also booked the same cruise and were/are going to be our witnesses.

Clearly this is a particularly difficult scenario.

 

I just wish that P&O would allow some bookings to be paid before after 90 days before travel.  Although they won't most likely do this, it would be a generous gesture of goodwill to the stress and difficulties that passengers are facing in terms of trying to second guess the public health scenario.  If cruises can't go then P&O are just delaying the inevitable - ultimately causing themselves more work and sapping consumer confidence in the process.

 

The truth is that, 90 days out in late September, no one will know if the seasonal winter influenza strain will be more or less severe than normal, how effective the yearly vaccine will be, and how cold Winter will become.

 

No one will know either whether Covid-19 will continue to hopefully recede in prevalence / impact or instead re-emerge as a second wave around a similar time i.e. late Autumn / early Winter.  This would appear to be most dangerous scenario, which we all hope is not a reality which faces us.

 

I was struck by the remarks made by the Chief Medical Officer recently where he pointed out that most epidemics have more than one peak and there is some limited evidence of this so far. 

 

Pray that this is wrong of course in this case and the virus is banished for good - not just in terms of cruise holidays but in terms of society and humanity in general.

[Bertie Doe]

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

The truth is that, 90 days out in late September, no one will know if the seasonal winter influenza strain will be more or less severe than normal, how effective the yearly vaccine will be, and how cold Winter will become.

 

No one will know either whether Covid-19 will continue to hopefully recede in prevalence / impact or instead re-emerge as a second wave around a similar time i.e. late Autumn / early Winter.  This would appear to be most dangerous scenario, which we all hope is not a reality which faces us.

 

I was struck by the remarks made by the Chief Medical Officer recently where he pointed out that most epidemics have more than one peak and there is some limited evidence of this so far. 

 

Pray that this is wrong of course in this case and the virus is banished for good - not just in terms of cruise holidays but in terms of society and humanity in general.

 

With no vaccine available it seems unlikely that the UK or EU Governments will allow travel on cruise ships, for the foreseeable future. The following week-old article, also shows EU Authorities' lack of enthusiasm to help an industry that's registered in tax havens.

 

Interestingly, the article indicates how low-risk the cruise industry is to Covid-19 infection. 338 ships , 82 deaths from a worldwide total of 400,000. Sadly that's still way too many fatalities  but with new deep cleaning protocols coming into place, it could be one of the safest ways to travel :-

https://www.ft.com/content/d8ff5129-6817-4a19-af02-1316f8defe52

 

 

 

[ohnonotmeagain]

5 minutes ago, Bertie Doe said:

 

With no vaccine available it seems unlikely that the UK or EU Governments will allow travel on cruise ships, for the foreseeable future. The following week-old article, also shows EU Authorities' lack of enthusiasm to help an industry that's registered in tax havens.

 

Interestingly, the article indicates how low-risk the cruise industry is to Covid-19 infection. 338 ships , 82 deaths from a worldwide total of 400,000. Sadly that's still way too many fatalities  but with new deep cleaning protocols coming into place, it could be one of the safest ways to travel :-

https://www.ft.com/content/d8ff5129-6817-4a19-af02-1316f8defe52

 

Slightly odd question.....how many people die ,on average each year on cruise ships? I'm aware some lines cater for younger clientele and some older but it would be interesting to know,well I would.

 

 

[Son of Anarchy]

7 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

Slightly odd question.....how many people die ,on average each year on cruise ships? I'm aware some lines cater for younger clientele and some older but it would be interesting to know,well I would.

 

Saw a documentary recently about people falling/jumping/otherwise going overboard on cruise ships.  Apparently overboards average(d) about one a fortnight.  Some do survive though. 

[ohnonotmeagain]

1 minute ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

Saw a documentary recently about people falling/jumping/otherwise going overboard on cruise ships.  Apparently overboards average(d) about one a fortnight.  Some do survive though. 

I was thinking due to natural causes really , no jumpers .

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

I was thinking due to natural causes really , no jumpers .

To be honest, the question is unanswerable, because even if you knew how many people died, by age range, you would need to know the pre-existing medical condition of each individual. There are too many variables.

Edited June 16, 2020 by wowzz

[Son of Anarchy]

4 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

I was thinking due to natural causes really , no jumpers .

I did think that.  That said, some overboards have been attributed to an individual's mental health, rather than alcohol, foul play etc.  

 

Years ago we did a 24 nighter to the Black Sea.  Apparently 5 pax passed away by the time we got back.  Last cruise we did was January this year.  Seemed like there was an ambulance meeting the ship at nearly every port.

[ohnonotmeagain]

11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

To be honest, the question is unanswerable, because even if you knew how many people died, by age range, you would need to know the pre-existing medical condition of each individual. There are too many variables.

Yes,I agree about the variables but there MUST be some figures SOMEWHERE. I'm sure,just for example, P&O would know how many people die because it must cost them "X" amount and project this in running costs???? Does that make sense ,it does in my head!!!!! Anyway  random musings.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

Yes,I agree about the variables but there MUST be some figures SOMEWHERE. I'm sure,just for example, P&O would know how many people die because it must cost them "X" amount and project this in running costs???? Does that make sense ,it does in my head!!!!! Anyway  random musings.

I'm sure they do keep a record, and would record the cause of death, but why should they make it public, and what good would it do? 

If a poor 30 year old, suffering from cancer, dies on a cruise,  why would you want to know about it? These days there are other, more pressing things to worry about.

[Adawn47]

I've just seen that RCI are cancelling all cruise bookings  out of America up to September 15th except for Asia cruises leaving from China. How silly is that given the new spike in cases in China?  I'm sure I read it right but ---

Avril 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Adawn47

[AndyMichelle]

19 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I've just seen that RCI are cancelling all cruise bookings  out of America up to September 15th except for Asia cruises leaving from China. How silly is that given the new spike in cases in China?  I'm sure I read it right but ---

Avril 

I think you are right Avril, I have read a few times that Asia will be the first cruises for many companies.

Let's just hope it doesn't all go wrong because they jump too soon.. 

Andy 

[Bertie Doe]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

I've just seen that RCI are cancelling all cruise bookings  out of America up to September 15th except for Asia cruises leaving from China. How silly is that given the new spike in cases in China?  I'm sure I read it right but ---

Avril 

Yes you're correct Avril. The CLIA (the Cruise Line International Assoc) have announced all cruises cancelled until 15th Sept, departing all North American Ports. It's not the CLIAs fault, they are governed by the CDC (Centres for Disease Control and Preventation). The CDC won't give permission for cruise ships to sale but (ironically) they have given the OK for airlines - I kid you not. Don of Don's Family Cruisers, gives quite reliable info and it's worth listening to his rant :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUWIgGgJMiM