A Norwegian cruise ship worker who's been trapped at sea for more than 80 days shares his grueling experience

[momofmab]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

My question is, who is more of a danger to the US public health system, a cruise ship crew member who has been on a ship for 2-3 months with no new or existing cases among the crew, or a container ship crew that crew changes through LAX after having been to Mexico less than a week ago, and granted unrestricted shore leave there?  One needs a charter flight or non-public transportation from ship to door, while the other is free to use public transportation and commercial air.

 

Therein lies the double standard that has plagued the handling of the virus outbreak. 

 

My friend can't go to her sister-in-law's funeral because of group-size quarantine restrictions in NY, but THOUSANDS of people can gather to protest because the first amendment is protected - virus spread be damned, apparently.

[esm54687]

53 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Many countries around the world have banned ship's crew changes completely, actually the US and Canada are among the most progressive in allowing crew changes, with the sole exception of the cruise ships.  And all of those tens of thousands of crew changes that the US has allowed over the last three months, have been on ships flagged in other countries, some of them the same ones that the cruise ships are flagged to.  And in those foreign ports where crew changes are banned, there have been US mariners on US flag ships that are not allowed to leave/join their ships, and has the US done anything about it?  Nope.  Do you think that HAL, with all their ships flagged in Holland, derive any financial benefits from this (other than any benefits a company would get from the US for operating US flag ships)?  Yet, they did not step up, nor were they able to get their nationals or expat crew home any easier than other flag states.  And, countries like the Bahamas effectively closed their borders completely, not allowing anyone, national or foreigner, into the country for months.

 

My question is, who is more of a danger to the US public health system, a cruise ship crew member who has been on a ship for 2-3 months with no new or existing cases among the crew, or a container ship crew that crew changes through LAX after having been to Mexico less than a week ago, and granted unrestricted shore leave there?  One needs a charter flight or non-public transportation from ship to door, while the other is free to use public transportation and commercial air.

Solid points that actually work for me.

 

Then why hold the US to a higher standard than Holland or the Bahamas? Why point the finger at the US because they are doing exactly what the rest of the world ports are doing?  Wouldn't a crew who has been on a ship for 2-3 months with no new or existing cases be the perfect crew to be allowed in the Bahamas and fly out of Nassau or Teague in the Netherlands?  The Bahamas and the Netherlands are certainly receiving financial benefits for allowing ships to be flagged there so hold those countries accountable. 

 

All I'm saying is that everyone loves to bash the US for policing the world and then bash the US for not policing the world ....... the countries, with their flagged ships, should be receiving the wrath of the crew and this board. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by esm54687

[chengkp75]

The US required that US crew on foreign cruise ships leaving the ship in a US port to take non-public transportation from the ship to their home door, and only after a 14 day quarantine, while I and many other US crew were allowed to leave/join our ships in US ports freely, with no quarantine conditions, and no restrictions on using commercial air or public transportation.  And, yes, crew are allowed to leave a ship in Holland currently, and travel home, if their home country allows entry, and this is why the cruise lines have been moving crew around ships, loading ships with crew for regional destinations and taking them to ports other than the US for crew change.

 

You miss the point of my question.  Why is a Filipino crew member from a Bahamas flag cruise ship (again, 2 months of quarantine with no cases) any more of a danger than a Filipino crew member from a Bahamas tanker that has not been under a quarantine.  The US allows the tanker crew to travel normally, being declared essential workers (even though not US citizens), yet don't allow the cruise ship crew to leave without massive restrictions.  Explain why the double standard.  Forget about what flag the ship flies, the US did it to their own citizens.

 

While the travel restrictions were justified at the time when the cruise ships were disembarking passengers, and there were active cases on the ships, what justification does it have now?  Even with the CDC starting a "color coding" of cruise ships to consider allowing a ship into port to let crew off, this still shows a bias against the cruise ship crew.  If you want to punish the cruise lines for taking a business decision to flag foreign, and you want to punish them for possible faults in their handling of passengers and crew at the start of the pandemic, fine, keep the ships from carrying passengers, but these travel restrictions are punishing the crew far more than they are punishing the cruise lines.

[datolim]

Chief, the CDC has label cruise ships as 'incubator' of the virus but not any other class of ships.

They outwardly advice people not to go on the cruise ships.

So their order for cruise ship guests is in line with their policy.

[phillyguy31]

27 minutes ago, datolim said:

Chief, the CDC has label cruise ships as 'incubator' of the virus but not any other class of ships.

They outwardly advice people not to go on the cruise ships.

So their order for cruise ship guests is in line with their policy.

I think you are missing the point, if a ship has been virus free for over 2 months, which many of these ships have been. The virus doesn't just appear on board. The crew on board are much safer to be around than any of us. Unless you have had not outside for 2 months.

The other point is that the close quarters on a freighter is probably closer than that of a cruise ship. Chengkp can let me know if I am right or wrong on that point.

[mking8288]

Today's AP News - "Coronavirus strands merchant ship crews at sea for months" - according to this article, mariners onboard those cargo & oil tankers around other parts of the world are running into issues.  150,000 seafarers stranded somewhere at sea, unable to go home and forced to extend their contracts while another 150,000 are waiting for words at land, unable to get back onboard for crew exchange.  

https://apnews.com/1f598b7675fb004586ebe713b29f8eac 

 

Chef, what are your thoughts & comments ... as always, thank you for the wisdom and helpful insight, be well & safe, wherever you are now and the weeks ahead. 

[boatseller]

Like too many things, this is 100% the fault of Government agencies and otherwise ridiculous regulations.  And it's not exclusively the US Government, plenty of Governments aren't allowing repatriation.

 

The cruise lines are doing a great job of managing this situation they didn't create.

[Sam Ting]

2 hours ago, mking8288 said:

Today's AP News - "Coronavirus strands merchant ship crews at sea for months" - according to this article, mariners onboard those cargo & oil tankers around other parts of the world are running into issues.  150,000 seafarers stranded somewhere at sea, unable to go home and forced to extend their contracts while another 150,000 are waiting for words at land, unable to get back onboard for crew exchange.  

https://apnews.com/1f598b7675fb004586ebe713b29f8eac 

 

Chef, what are your thoughts & comments ... as always, thank you for the wisdom and helpful insight, be well & safe, wherever you are now and the weeks ahead. 

I thought he said it was only cruise ships.  Maybe not so much huh?

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

The other point is that the close quarters on a freighter is probably closer than that of a cruise ship. Chengkp can let me know if I am right or wrong on that point.

Merchant ships require single cabins for all but passenger vessels.  And, there is usually a crew of 20-25 total.

1 hour ago, mking8288 said:

Chef, what are your thoughts & comments ... as always, thank you for the wisdom and helpful insight, be well & safe, wherever you are now and the weeks ahead. 

I've been trumpeting this on CC for over a month now.  While there were 80-100,000 cruise ship crew that were stranded off the US coast, there are only about 185,000 cruise ship crew on all ships worldwide at any time.  Compare this with the 1.6 million merchant mariners actively on the ships at any time.  These crew account for about 100,000 crew changes each month, worldwide, and most countries have not allowed crew changes for a couple of months.  The big problem is that there is a statutory maximum time crew can be on a ship (11 months), and so when they reach their maximum, if there is no crew to replace them (can't fly in and join ship), that crew has to stop working, and the ship starts to experience short handed sailing (most ships only sail with 2-3 crew above the statutory minimum), and when they get below the statutory minimum crew, the ship cannot sail.  Then 80% of the world's economy (that's how much goes by sea) will start to slow down and stop.  And that could have an irreversible effect on the world's economy.  The IMO, the ITF, and the ILO are working with member nations to grant essential worker status to merchant mariners, as the US has from the beginning, to exempt them from travel restrictions.

 

While the number of cruise ship crew stranded on their vessels is shrinking due to the lines using ships to transport crew home, and charter flights, the other merchant ships' crews backlog their crew changes by 100,000 every month.  This is my point here, the US is one of the few countries allowing foreign crew changes, for everyone other than cruise ship crew.

4 hours ago, datolim said:

Chief, the CDC has label cruise ships as 'incubator' of the virus but not any other class of ships.

They outwardly advice people not to go on the cruise ships.

So their order for cruise ship guests is in line with their policy.

Yes, they have, but their advice not to go on a cruise ship is for passengers.  However, in line with their guidelines, the crew have been in quarantine longer than anyone in the US, and can easily be tested, at company expense, before leaving the ship.  These ships, with no current cases, and having been under quarantine for months, and having no passenger exchange, and having extremely limited contact with shoreside personnel, are no more dangerous than the foreign flag container ship where the crew went ashore 2 days ago in Mexico, and that crew member is scheduled to be transported to the airport in LA for a commercial flight home.   Even the CDC is realizing that they are harming crew more than the cruise lines with their restrictions, as they have just recently started a "color code" for the cruise ships, based on timing to past/current cases onboard, and then allowing crew to leave.  Frankly, its about time.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Sam Ting said:

I thought he said it was only cruise ships.  Maybe not so much huh?

I'll pull this one out of the ignore bin, because you show how reading comprehension is not quite your strongpoint.  I said that the US is treating cruise ship crew as second class citizens, since they cannot crew change using public transportation, while other ships' crews could.  The article that mking links is talking about the inability of merchant ship crews to crew change around the world.  Guess that distinction was missed.

 

Here's a list of the crew change restrictions around the world:

 

https://safety4sea.com/crew-changes-an-overview/

 

You might actually look and see that there are currently only two states that are putting some restrictions on crew changes, and none of these is anywhere near the CDC restrictions on cruise ship crew.

 

Back to the dumpster, pal.

[www3traveler]

I have a young crew member friend on a Carnival ship stuck in Manila Bay for over a month.  If he can get off to go to his home country in Myanmar, he will still have to  quarantine for 21 days.  His brother is hopefully leaving a Norwegian ship on a chartered flight from France to Myanmar and will have to quarantine for 21 days.  He has been on a Norwegian ship without passengers or virus for over two months now.  NOT FAIR 

[Sam Ting]

45 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'll pull this one out of the ignore bin, because you show how reading comprehension is not quite your strongpoint.  I said that the US is treating cruise ship crew as second class citizens, since they cannot crew change using public transportation, while other ships' crews could.  The article that mking links is talking about the inability of merchant ship crews to crew change around the world.  Guess that distinction was missed.

 

Here's a list of the crew change restrictions around the world:

 

https://safety4sea.com/crew-changes-an-overview/

 

You might actually look and see that there are currently only two states that are putting some restrictions on crew changes, and none of these is anywhere near the CDC restrictions on cruise ship crew.

 

Back to the dumpster, pal.

How did you see it if it was in your ignore bin?  I think we all know the answer. 

[F27TW]

OK, I just read this article  .. .and there was nothing grueling about it.   It sucks for them, absolutely .. but theres nothing "grueling" anywhere in his article

[SeaHunt]

Thankfully at least he doesn't mention being charged for internet as some HAL crew are. Surely HAL could afford WiFi? 😉

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/holland-america-charging-workers-internet-coronavirus-stranded-2020-6

 

A Holland America salesperson told Business Insider that they were also upset by the fact the cruise line is charging trapped crew members whose contracts have been terminated for WiFi. 

"There's so many levels of wrong going on right now," a Holland America salesperson told Business Insider. "And those crew who are stuck at sea? They're not being paid. And for their WiFi access, they have to pay for their WiFi access while they're stuck at sea."

 

• Internet access isn’t free for Holland America crew members stranded onboard the cruise line’s fleet of ships.
• Crew can purchase a plan that offers 607 mb for $US40 on a monthly basis.
• A Holland America spokesperson told Business Insider that the cruise line offers 24/7 “happy hour” rates for crew, thus allowing the workers to access more megabits per second.
• “There’s so many levels of wrong going on right now,” a Holland America salesperson told Business Insider, referring to the company’s practice of charging crew for internet access.

 

[jsn55]

On 6/3/2020 at 11:23 AM, KateQ22003 said:

I am in contact with a bartender currently on the Escape who pretty much says the same things as this article. I feel so bad for the crew stuck on these ships. They aren't earning a paycheck they can't go home, and they can't get off the ship. It must be absolutely maddening.

It is appalling that stranded crew members are not being paid.  The top guys raking in millions should get together and spread the wealth around to the stranded crew.   How can they condone such horrible behaviour toward employees?  And what's even worse?  Nobody gives a rap about it.  Just like violence and looting going unpunished, nobody cares as long as they're not involved.  

Edited June 7, 2020 by jsn55
typo

[spanishguy1970]

On 6/3/2020 at 4:37 PM, Happy2b@sea said:

This makes me feel sick!  Why does he get paid soooo much?!  The crew work so hard and are so lovely and get paid peanuts or nothing!

I've said something similar on another thread but some people believe why shouldn't he make that amount of money. I don't believe cruise line CEOs should make the exuberant salaries while the people on board make so little not to mention the customer has to " supplement" their income with the DSC, which by the way I am happy to pay for they deserve that and more. I for one just don't get it.

Edited June 8, 2020 by spanishguy1970

[spanishguy1970]

On 6/4/2020 at 4:41 PM, F27TW said:

OK, I just read this article  .. .and there was nothing grueling about it.   It sucks for them, absolutely .. but theres nothing "grueling" anywhere in his article

they have to make it dramatic so you will read LOL

[graphicguy]

I believe that overall, the safest place to be is probably on a cruise ship right now.  Those who don't have anyone with the virus on board, is more or less immune to COVID-19.  No one getting on, no one getting off.  I don't know.  If I had all my food, fresh fruits and veggies, drinks, etc on board, plus full run of the ship, I might be able to entertain myself.

 

Cabin with no windows would keep me out in the sunshine all day.  But, aside from that, I'm having a hard time thinking how this is somehow bad compared to so many other places they could be.

[Newleno]

33 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I believe that overall, the safest place to be is probably on a cruise ship right now.  Those who don't have anyone with the virus on board, is more or less immune to COVID-19.  No one getting on, no one getting off.  I don't know.  If I had all my food, fresh fruits and veggies, drinks, etc on board, plus full run of the ship, I might be able to entertain myself.

 

Cabin with no windows would keep me out in the sunshine all day.  But, aside from that, I'm having a hard time thinking how this is somehow bad compared to so many other places they could be.

One of the main issues I would believe would be not getting paid, not seeing family/wife/kids and friends.  Example 6 months contract is up march 30, ***** - I am still stuck on the ship june 9th,  not making any money and have not seen my newborn baby, not working my side gig while off contract.  Stuff like that, but for me just like you as a cruiser not a worker, would not be a big deal, (actually some great over month long cheap cruises being offered on princess we are looking at), with some cruises (especially in the bahamas/caribbean)  the ports are so crummy we dont even bother getting off the ship.  

Edited June 9, 2020 by Newleno

[vpearlkc]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I believe that overall, the safest place to be is probably on a cruise ship right now.  Those who don't have anyone with the virus on board, is more or less immune to COVID-19.  No one getting on, no one getting off.  I don't know.  If I had all my food, fresh fruits and veggies, drinks, etc on board, plus full run of the ship, I might be able to entertain myself.

 

Cabin with no windows would keep me out in the sunshine all day.  But, aside from that, I'm having a hard time thinking how this is somehow bad compared to so many other places they could be.

 

You are looking at this from the perspective of a cruiser that enjoys spending time on a ship. These crew  members are stuck on the ship without pay while their families in some poverty stricken country try to survive on what little the spouse who is at home can make. I don't think they enjoy it a bit. It probably feels like a prison to them. 

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, vpearlkc said:

 

You are looking at this from the perspective of a cruiser that enjoys spending time on a ship. These crew  members are stuck on the ship without pay while their families in some poverty stricken country try to survive on what little the spouse who is at home can make. I don't think they enjoy it a bit. It probably feels like a prison to them. 

 

 

And you are looking at it from a first world perspective.  The money the crew makes while on the ship is sufficient to cover their expenses while on vacation.  Most don't have a "side gig", and the "slave wage" crew salary is generally a high end middle class income at home.  Admittedly, they cannot get home, but in many cases that is caused by their home country's quarantine policies as much as anything else.  Most figure that their pay isn't going towards paying for their food, just for the remaining family at home, and they are getting fed for free.  Until you've worked with the crew, most cruisers, even those who feel they have an "attachment" to a particular crew really don't understand the crew's perspective.

[vpearlkc]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And you are looking at it from a first world perspective.  The money the crew makes while on the ship is sufficient to cover their expenses while on vacation.  Most don't have a "side gig", and the "slave wage" crew salary is generally a high end middle class income at home.  Admittedly, they cannot get home, but in many cases that is caused by their home country's quarantine policies as much as anything else.  Most figure that their pay isn't going towards paying for their food, just for the remaining family at home, and they are getting fed for free.  Until you've worked with the crew, most cruisers, even those who feel they have an "attachment" to a particular crew really don't understand the crew's perspective.

 

[graphicguy]

RCCL crew post......similar to NCL crew.....

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwir6sqPmvXpAhVVVc0KHcnHDC0Q3e4CMAJ6BAgLEAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Da7HF5xlUzs8&usg=AOvVaw05_eFcO3PA4NVO48JjXI9i

[graphicguy]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:17 AM, vpearlkc said:

 

You are looking at this from the perspective of a cruiser that enjoys spending time on a ship. These crew  members are stuck on the ship without pay while their families in some poverty stricken country try to survive on what little the spouse who is at home can make. I don't think they enjoy it a bit. It probably feels like a prison to them. 

 

 

Not sure how many prisons have internet, Pools, fresh food, a view of blue water, soft beds to sleep in, satellite TV, computer games, carpeted rooms and hallways, chandeliers, etc.

[vpearlkc]

8 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Not sure how many prisons have internet, Pools, fresh food, a view of blue water, soft beds to sleep in, satellite TV, computer games, carpeted rooms and hallways, chandeliers, etc.

 

Alcatraz had a great view ff the water.