Carnival and the CDC

[joeyancho]

Just read this article about NCL.  Has Carnival "made peace" with the CDC, in light of their intention to resume sailing in August? NCL has canceled until October while Carnival has not.  This is all such a huge cluster....

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/norwegian-cruise-investors-can-blame-the-cdc-for-extended-cruise-suspensions-analyst-says-2020-06-17?mod=mw_quote_news

[HaveWeMetYet]

Same rules apply to all cruise lines from the CDC so it is not NCL specific. It is not just the CDC but all the islands have strict protocols for visitors. If a country requires you to wear a face mask on the plane and at the hotel and stay 6 feet or so from anyone you can forget a cruise ship stopping there.

Carnival will follow NCL and cancel.

[Joe817]

Yup. At this point in time, I'm highly reluctant to give any credence from any news source about the future of cruising except from  the CDC(and I say that with reservations)and the Coast Guard ,  the CLIA and Carnival Corporation. But there is another major glitch in this hodge podge,  and that is the State of departure of the particular ship, and their regulations/rulings, and the countries/islands of destination.  I STILL don't know if Grand Cayman, or Jamaica will let us disembark, let alone Mexico, read Cozumel. I don't know, what I don't know. 

[xDisconnections]

I’m not sure. Carnival is the only one listed that did not submit their response plans to the no sail order. Most ships have been given provisionally green status with Bahamas Paradise the only one given green status.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html?fbclid=IwAR2COVAusN5gRwSCh67yTeIC0NqcN7quoEMqXgbi6dCnBYi-sUtngsR_KeI#response 

[mustardgirl]

35 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I’m not sure. Carnival is the only one listed that did not submit their response plans to the no sail order. Most ships have been given provisionally green status with Bahamas Paradise the only one given green status.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html?fbclid=IwAR2COVAusN5gRwSCh67yTeIC0NqcN7quoEMqXgbi6dCnBYi-sUtngsR_KeI#response 

The thing about this link and the status of green etc is that it is for allowing the crew to fly back to wherever through commercial travel. Has nothing to do with passengers, so it doesn’t really help in figuring out when we will get to cruise again with Carnival, since they just shipped their employees back via boat.

[xDisconnections]

2 minutes ago, mustardgirl said:

The thing about this link and the status of green etc is that it is for allowing the crew to fly back to wherever through commercial travel. Has nothing to do with passengers, so it doesn’t really help in figuring out when we will get to cruise again with Carnival, since they just shipped their employees back via boat.

That wasn’t the OP’s question though. OP was trying to find out if Carnival “made peace” (his words) with the CDC.

[slavens_09]

8 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

That wasn’t the OP’s question though. OP was trying to find out if Carnival “made peace” (his words) with the CDC.

Then the answer is no they haven’t. Because they used their ships the get crew home. So no need to submit plans to the CDC to operate during the no sail order.

[xDisconnections]

5 minutes ago, slavens_09 said:

Then the answer is no they haven’t. Because they used their ships the get crew home. So no need to submit plans to the CDC to operate during the no sail order.

Carnival wasn't the only cruise line to utilize their ships in the process of transporting crew home. In fact, most of the cruise lines did the same and still submitted a response plan to the no sail order as instructed.

[slavens_09]

6 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Carnival wasn't the only cruise line to utilize their ships in the process of transporting crew home. In fact, most of the cruise lines did the same and still submitted a response plan to the no sail order as instructed.

There isn’t a single CCL Corp line on that list. You were only required if you wanted to use US commercial travel to get crew home. By that point Carnival Corp had all crew on ships heading home.

 

[Organized Chaos]

If, in fact, Carnival hasn't submitted this plan, I highly doubt they did it to "thumb their nose" at the CDC. Although, I'd respect Carnival so much more if they did. 😁 They don't want to provoke a governmental organization that's already treating them unfairly, and has been for months. In regards to that plan, I'd say there's more to it than what we see or, if they truly haven't and are supposed to, then there's a legitimate reason for it. They're going to comply...they have no other choice. Unfortunately.

 

For those of us who believe the CDC hasn't been treating the cruise industry fairly during all this, at least we know we're not the only ones.

[Organized Chaos]

Does anyone know if NCL had a similar plan to Carnival's to sail only a small handful of ship at partial capacity come August? Or any other line, for that matter. Are any other lines willing to go that extra mile? I'm just wondering if that's making a difference in the CDC's eyes.

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

Does anyone know if NCL had a similar plan to Carnival's to sail only a small handful of ship at partial capacity come August? Or any other line, for that matter. Are any other lines willing to go that extra mile? I'm just wondering if that's making a difference in the CDC's eyes.

 

Once upon a time NCL's plan was to start small and get all ships in service within 6 months.

[jimbo5544]

9 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

If, in fact, Carnival hasn't submitted this plan, I highly doubt they did it to "thumb their nose" at the CDC. Although, I'd respect Carnival so much more if they did. 😁 They don't want to provoke a governmental organization that's already treating them unfairly, and has been for months. In regards to that plan, I'd say there's more to it than what we see or, if they truly haven't and are supposed to, then there's a legitimate reason for it. They're going to comply...they have no other choice. Unfortunately.

 

For those of us who believe the CDC hasn't been treating the cruise industry fairly during all this, at least we know we're not the only ones.

I totally agree with your post ( and we do not agree often).

[Fredric22]

The CDC has had a bone to pick with the cruise industry for a long time.  They seem to be singling out the industry (as the article mentions).  There has to be some reason for the friction, as it seems there is just a bad working relationship between the industry and the CDC.  I really hope that the administration steps in at some point and encourages the CDC to work with the industry.  My major fear is that when the CDC is ready to work with cruise lines, the guidelines they will implement will be so far reaching and extreme that the cruise lines won't even be able to operate feasibly.  As we all know, the cruise industry is an important part of the economy (especially in places like Alaska, Florida, Texas, etc.).  

[Butterbean1000]

11 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

 

For those of us who believe the CDC hasn't been treating the cruise industry fairly during all this, at least we know we're not the only ones.

Interesting read

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/norwegian-cruise-investors-can-blame-the-cdc-for-extended-cruise-suspensions-analyst-says-2020-06-17

[jimbo5544]

23 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Interesting read

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/norwegian-cruise-investors-can-blame-the-cdc-for-extended-cruise-suspensions-analyst-says-2020-06-17

Very much so, not a good time in the industry, and the pain is def not over...

[AmBear]

Imagine what would happen to cruising if there was another outbreak like what we saw in the spring, cruising might not return for years!

 

[ontheweb]

53 minutes ago, AmBear said:

Imagine what would happen to cruising if there was another outbreak like what we saw in the spring, cruising might not return for years!

 

And it might bankrupt all the present cruise companies. And IF it did ever come back, it would be with totally different cruise lines. 

 

Not that it would be important, but everyone would lose their earned status with the different lines,

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, AmBear said:

Imagine what would happen to cruising if there was another outbreak like what we saw in the spring, cruising might not return for years!

 

The outbreak onboard ships  was nowhere close to even one infected nursing home that was fully staffed by trained medical personnel and yet nursing homes are not under threat.  

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And it might bankrupt all the present cruise companies. And IF it did ever come back, it would be with totally different cruise lines. 

 

Not that it would be important, but everyone would lose their earned status with the different lines,

And lose all shares of stock, cruise fare, deposits, etc

[WpgCruise]

21 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

The outbreak onboard ships  was nowhere close to even one infected nursing home that was fully staffed by trained medical personnel and yet nursing homes are not under threat.  

Diamond Princess 712 Covid 19 infections.

Not sure which fully staffed nursing home exceeded  that number.

 

Until people get their heads around this pandemic and take mitigation seriously it's only going to get worse.  There is as Sweden proved no herd immunity, there is no guarantee that Covid survivors don't get it again, there is no magic pill or vacine rolling out tomorrow.

 

A cruise is a vacation, hardly a primary focus for any regulatory body. 

 

But for those who gotta cruise, it looks like lots of European options are opening, but who knows if they will accept U.S. customers based on current trends.

[Elaine5715]

4 minutes ago, WpgCruise said:

Diamond Princess 712 Covid 19 infections.

Not sure which fully staffed nursing home exceeded  that number.

 

Until people get their heads around this pandemic and take mitigation seriously it's only going to get worse.  There is as Sweden proved no herd immunity, there is no guarantee that Covid survivors don't get it again, there is no magic pill or vacine rolling out tomorrow.

 

A cruise is a vacation, hardly a primary focus for any regulatory body. 

 

But for those who gotta cruise, it looks like lots of European options are opening, but who knows if they will accept U.S. customers based on current trends.

It isn't a vacation, it is the destruction of an industry which is currently losing 110 million dollars and 800 US jobs every day.  The infections on the Diamond Princess was exacerbated by lack of knowledge.  However 712 positive cases with 9 eventual deaths out of 3711 people on board as compared to numerous nursing homes (where the disease was brought into them) where dozens in each died.  Three  cruise ships out of hundreds at sea is a blip.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm

[CruisingFromLA]

21 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

It isn't a vacation, it is the destruction of an industry which is currently losing 110 million dollars and 800 US jobs every day.  The infections on the Diamond Princess was exacerbated by lack of knowledge.  However 712 positive cases with 9 eventual deaths out of 3711 people on board as compared to numerous nursing homes (where the disease was brought into them) where dozens in each died.  Three  cruise ships out of hundreds at sea is a blip.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm

 

Plus the fact that the 712 positive cases was over the course of a month that they were not allowed to leave the ship. Knowing what we know now, I believe the bulk of the cases across the month was due to asymptomatic staff preparing and handing out meals to the passengers (no one knew back then that asymptomatic staff were carriers and can infect others back then). If we had the ability to test and quarantine everyone off the ship at the beginning, I guarantee the positive cases would have been substantially lower.

[AmBear]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And it might bankrupt all the present cruise companies. And IF it did ever come back, it would be with totally different cruise lines. 

 

Not that it would be important, but everyone would lose their earned status with the different lines,

As far as status, don't think so, a few board members will be fired, but life will go on!

 

[DryCreek]

22 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Incorrect.

 

The CDC has full jurisdiction - with the USCG as its enforcement arm.

 

Since February, and "suggestions" and "puffery" about cruising have come from CLIA and the cruise lines themselves.

Read USC Title 42 a little more closely.  Yes, they have broad powers over emigrants and foreign visitors.  They are even given some latitude under the Commerce Clause though.  When it comes to establishing mandatory quarantines for U.S. citizens, they usually defer that to the state level.  It seems to me that here in Texas, should the cruise lines determine to return to service, they should be allowed to - for U.S. Citizens though. 

 

It is my opinion that much of the CDC recommendations are indeed puffery.  They tend to push regimens that benefit them through their ownership (directly and by committee members) of many patents dealing with transmissible disease prevention.  Link

Edited June 22, 2020 by DryCreek
added link