Re the virus - what about the bathrooms?

[lucymorgan]

I am fairly sure I caught the virus on a cruise to NZ in late January/early February.  A person in the stateroom next door had an awful cough (which later spread to his partner).  I wasn't sick on board but on returning I developed pneumonia, according to my doc secondary to flu and probably from someone traveling from the northern hemisphere.  I had the swabs for influenza and they came back negative.  Covid tests were not easily available at the time.   I took all precautions as usual - I remember people staring at me for sanitising the door handle outside my stateroom.  🙂   A few cruises later the ship was confirmed to have cases.    

 

I have read that cruise ships have good air conditioning and you are unlikely to catch a virus inside your stateroom.  But now there are reports about sewerage systems and the possibility that it is another vector for spread.  My city is analyzing sewerage to determine how widespread the virus is.  I wonder if this is another area that cruise companies need to investigate.     

[mom says]

Yes, there are studies in many countries  that are monitoring virus levels in sewage systems to see if they can see spikes in its occurance before traditional nasal swabs do,  on a community wide basis. However, from what I've read, unless you are working in a waste management facility, or are around open sewers, the average person is at low risk from sewage transmission.  Especially if they practice proper handwashing. So you don't have to be afraid of your toilet. Perhaps even less so on ships,  that use a vacuum system rather than gravity.

Edited July 7, 2020 by mom says

[Ashland]

1 minute ago, mom says said:

Yes, there are studies in many countries  that are monitoring virus levels in sewage systems to see if they can see spikes in its occurance before traditional nasal swabs do,  on a community wide basis. However, from what I've read, unless you are working in a waste management facility, or are around open sewers, the average person is at low risk from sewage transmission.  So you don't have to be afraid of your toilet.

Shut the lid before you flush 

[mom says]

1 minute ago, Ashland said:

Shut the lid before you flush 

Lol. Yes, that too.

[chengkp75]

Well, while they are indeed finding covid virus in sewage, it is a "broad brush stroke" thing, where they can tell if a city or area of a city is experiencing a spike in cases due to discharged virus, but as the CDC notes, there is no evidence of a spread via sewage, the one instance was in Hong Kong, where defective, broken piping allowed aerosols from the plumbing stack to be released into other homes (along with an ungodly smell, of course).  A ship's vacuum toilet system would be the safest sewage system around.  First off, it is a separate system from the "gray water" (sink, shower, galley, laundry drains), unlike land systems where it all goes into common drain lines.  Second, it is a completely sealed system (or you could not build up the vacuum needed to operate the system), so there is even less chance of a person getting the virus from the system.  The only real possible source for contamination would be the engineers working on the sewage treatment plant onboard, but they have always practiced the best possible personal and workplace hygiene for a long time, because there have been very contagious diseases in untreated sewage long before covid.

 

And, there have been statements about toilet flushing causing aerosols to form around the toilet, and the possibility of this being a source of infection, the vacuum toilets, by their very nature, pull any aerosol spray down into the toilet because of the vacuum pulling it there.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, while they are indeed finding covid virus in sewage, it is a "broad brush stroke" thing, where they can tell if a city or area of a city is experiencing a spike in cases due to discharged virus, but as the CDC notes, there is no evidence of a spread via sewage, the one instance was in Hong Kong, where defective, broken piping allowed aerosols from the plumbing stack to be released into other homes (along with an ungodly smell, of course).  A ship's vacuum toilet system would be the safest sewage system around.  First off, it is a separate system from the "gray water" (sink, shower, galley, laundry drains), unlike land systems where it all goes into common drain lines.  Second, it is a completely sealed system (or you could not build up the vacuum needed to operate the system), so there is even less chance of a person getting the virus from the system.  The only real possible source for contamination would be the engineers working on the sewage treatment plant onboard, but they have always practiced the best possible personal and workplace hygiene for a long time, because there have been very contagious diseases in untreated sewage long before covid.

 

And, there have been statements about toilet flushing causing aerosols to form around the toilet, and the possibility of this being a source of infection, the vacuum toilets, by their very nature, pull any aerosol spray down into the toilet because of the vacuum pulling it there.

Good stuff. Hopefully now even the ultra paranoid do not need to "hold it in" for the entire length of the cruise.😉

[VMax1700]

29 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Good stuff. Hopefully now even the ultra paranoid do not need to "hold it in" for the entire length of the cruise.😉

🤞 I was searching for a 'legs crossed' emoji but no luck! 😉

[LHT28]

7 hours ago, lucymorgan said:

I am fairly sure I caught the virus on a cruise to NZ in late January/early February.  A person in the stateroom next door had an awful cough (which later spread to his partner).  I wasn't sick on board but on returning I developed pneumonia, according to my doc secondary to flu and probably from someone traveling from the northern hemisphere.  I had the swabs for influenza and they came back negative.  Covid tests were not easily available at the time.   I took all precautions as usual - I remember people staring at me for sanitising the door handle outside my stateroom.  🙂   A few cruises later the ship was confirmed to have cases.    

 

 

Unless you stayed in your cabin all the time  you could have picked up the bug anywhere on the ship or even the stateroom attendants could have unknowingly transferred the bug  when cleaning the cabin

 

Seems every cruise we are on there are people coughing  & then it spreads

We  had a bad cough on our Dec cruise ..lots of people were coughing

I am now thinking we may have had a mild case of Covid  as we also had fever & chills  for 1 day  & there was a small contingent of Asians onboard that  were coughing

Paranoid?? Maybe?

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Paranoid?? Maybe?

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

 

Your rather gratuitous swipe at Asians was unnecessary.

[lucymorgan]

13 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

 

Your rather gratuitous swipe at Asians was unnecessary.

I agree.   I hate the blame game.   This is a global problem.    The Australian Department of Health was publishing the source of the virus by continent and the source from Asia was a very small percentage.  Many more cases  were from Europe and the USA.    They have ceased publishing those figures - I am guessing it was pressure from 'allies' and also where it comes from does not solve the problem.  https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers#cases-by-source-of-infection 

 

By the way, my next door neighbours were from the US but I am not blaming them as no-one realised what was going on at that time.  

[LHT28]

50 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Your rather gratuitous swipe at Asians was unnecessary.

sorry   I will  try this then

There were  people on the cruise coughing  that were clearly  sick

We have had coughs before on cruises  but not fever & chills  for a cold

At the time  the Virus was known  in China but  they did not share the information with the rest of the World  so anyone travelling to/from the area  could have been exposed & transmitted  the virus

 

Our friends live  in Slovenia  & had an exchange student from Wuhan  staying with them in Nov/Dec.

Early  Dec  they both came down with  a very bad flu bug

Could have been just  a coincidence   that the student was from Wuhan & maybe just a coincidence they got a bad flu 

The World  was to find out about Covid in late Dec

WHO  declared it  a Pandemic  around Jan 21st   & here we are today still sharing the virus  with friends/family

 

 

[Heidi13]

4 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

sorry   I will  try this then

There were  people on the cruise coughing  that were clearly  sick

We have had coughs before on cruises  but not fever & chills  for a cold

At the time  the Virus was known  in China but  they did not share the information with the rest of the World  so anyone travelling to/from the area  could have been exposed & transmitted  the virus

 

Our friends live  in Slovenia  & had an exchange student from Wuhan  staying with them in Nov/Dec.

Early  Dec  they both came down with  a very bad flu bug

Could have been just  a coincidence   that the student was from Wuhan & maybe just a coincidence they got a bad flu 

The World  was to find out about Covid in late Dec

 

 

Entirely possible, since based on hospital visits they speculate it could have started as early as summer 2019 in Wuhan.

[lucymorgan]

and now there are reports that it was in Spain in early 2019.  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1    I think this still has to be peer reviewed.   Who knows?

 

I don't see the point of blaming any country.  We all have to deal with it.

   

[LHT28]

1 minute ago, Heidi13 said:

Entirely possible, since based on hospital visits they speculate it could have started as early as summer 2019 in Wuhan.

for sure earlier  than when it was finally announced to the rest of the world

Most reports say it originated in Wuhan

 

[LHT28]

3 minutes ago, lucymorgan said:

I don't see the point of blaming any country.  We all have to deal with it.

   

yes  

maybe some of us are just tired of being in lock down mode  for several months

I know I am

[lucymorgan]

2 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

yes  

maybe some of us are just tired of being in lock down mode  for several months

I know I am

Yes - I am sure that many of us are tired of being in lock down mode.  Some of us are luckier than others.  I know I am lucky as I have a back yard and I can work from home.  I do really feel for those people in apartments, for those who are locked up in hotels for quarantine, for those who have lost their jobs, for those who are separated from their families (e.g. crew members stuck on board the ships).  😪    

[clo]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

yes  

maybe some of us are just tired of being in lock down mode  for several months

I know I am

OT, but I think there's an increased amount of grumpiness on social media these days. Seems a lot of complaining about a lot of subjects.

[cbr663]

I think the risks with cruise ship washrooms is sharing public washrooms and passengers exercising poor hygiene after using the washroom.  Similar risks as many other viruses and bacterial transmissions.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

🤞 I was searching for a 'legs crossed' emoji but no luck! 😉

🤞 from now on will be the emoji for using your fingers to keep your legs crossed.

[clo]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

🤞 from now on will be the emoji for using your fingers to keep your legs crossed.

Signage in the Bergen, Norway, airport.

 

[LHT28]

must be  a Norway  thing 😎

Stavanger

 

[lenquixote66]

How does one social distance in the lavatory ?

[clo]

23 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

must be  a Norway  thing 😎

Stavanger

 

How fun! We hope to turn one day and I'll have to keep an eye out. Thanks for sharing.

 

[mom says]

41 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

How does one social distance in the lavatory ?

Use a stall.

[navybankerteacher]

43 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

How does one social distance in the lavatory ?

Don’t share a stall, for starters.