Carnival Now Says They Expect 13 Ships To Leave Their Fleet

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

  The smart money gave the forecast in March - yes, March - that the scrappers would be doing big, big business from the cruise lines.

 

    Self-proclaimed experts on CC dismissed the forecasts again and again. Only to slowly, slowly start coming around to reality in late July. 👻

 

     Sad truth: if CLIA doesn't get its act together soon, there'll be plenty more grim news ahead for the cruise industry. 

 

Most ships are being swapped, not scrapped. Apologies for injecting facts.

[embarkation75]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

No need to release cruises for 2023 at all, but they did.

 

...and I wonder why they did that...hmmm could it be because they are desperate for cash and will use people's hopes and aspirations to gain some more money!?!? After all they haven't stopped taking reservations for Fantasy! Is this a bit slimy when the ship and/or itinerary may not exist...sure but that's the American way. Listen, I hope if you're cruising on Elation that this signals something, but I highly doubt it means anything other than Carnival is trying to figure how to get more cash from people.

[xDisconnections]

30 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

 

...and I wonder why they did that...hmmm could it be because they are desperate for cash and will use people's hopes and aspirations to gain some more money!?!? After all they haven't stopped taking reservations for Fantasy! Is this a bit slimy when the ship and/or itinerary may not exist...sure but that's the American way. Listen, I hope if you're cruising on Elation that this signals something, but I highly doubt it means anything other than Carnival is trying to figure how to get more cash from people.

Well, we still don’t have any proof the Fantasy has been sold. As of now, it is being suggested by high ranking officials that Carnival Cruise Line’s ships to be sold, if any, have not been identified at this time. Carnival is not able to provide any further information and we can only believe they are following their corporate responsibility to act in good faith. Carnival Fantasy is scheduled to cruise beginning October 3rd and there aren’t any travel advisories currently available regarding this sailing.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, embarkation75 said:

 

...and I wonder why they did that...hmmm could it be because they are desperate for cash and will use people's hopes and aspirations to gain some more money!?!? After all they haven't stopped taking reservations for Fantasy! Is this a bit slimy when the ship and/or itinerary may not exist...sure but that's the American way. Listen, I hope if you're cruising on Elation that this signals something, but I highly doubt it means anything other than Carnival is trying to figure how to get more cash from people.

 

Reality and conspiracy theorists rarely are in sync. Elation and Paradise have azipod propulsion and Paradise in particular was used for Cuba cruises which are likely to restart within a year or two, but Elation could also be used. The newer ships are too large.

[embarkation75]

17 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Reality and conspiracy theorists rarely are in sync. Elation and Paradise have azipod propulsion and Paradise in particular was used for Cuba cruises which are likely to restart within a year or two, but Elation could also be used. The newer ships are too large.

 

No conspiracy theory here as I hope your ship the Elation survives as it has a better chance than most Fantasy class ships. However, don't be fooled into thinking these new cruises are more than an attempt to dupe people into loaning Carnival more money when even Carnival can't guarantee what itineraries, ports, and ships make it through this covid-19 dumpster fire.

[xDisconnections]

49 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Reality and conspiracy theorists rarely are in sync. Elation and Paradise have azipod propulsion and Paradise in particular was used for Cuba cruises which are likely to restart within a year or two, but Elation could also be used. The newer ships are too large.

A Fantasy class ship would certainly be better suited for this and I'm not sure how the Sunshine's single cruise scheduled for Cuba would have been. Looking back, I'm glad my Cuba cruise was canceled and I was able to stay for a few days on ground to actually become immersed in the culture and experience.

 

If Cuba is a reality again, that's the only reasons I can think of to warrant keeping a smaller ship around.

[BlerkOne]

11 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

A Fantasy class ship would certainly be better suited for this and I'm not sure how the Sunshine's single cruise scheduled for Cuba would have been. Looking back, I'm glad my Cuba cruise was canceled and I was able to stay for a few days on ground to actually become immersed in the culture and experience.

 

If Cuba is a reality again, that's the only reasons I can think of to warrant keeping a smaller ship around.

 

AFAIK, you can still fly to Cuba and stay with a family for complete immersion.

[xDisconnections]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

AFAIK, you can still fly to Cuba and stay with a family for complete immersion.

You still can. Hopefully it'll return by cruise someday and is a reason to keep one smaller ship if the reality is possible in the future.

[BlerkOne]

As a publicly traded corporation, Carnival is required to disclose events in a timely manner that have a material impact to the company. Until Carnival announces any changes to the Carnival Cruise Line fleet, they haven't happened.

 

"Reportedly sold" from a third party gossip site doesn't carry much weight.

[cruises42]

According to this CC news article  the Fantasy and Inspiration are en-route to Turkey where they will most likely be scrapped. https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5423/

[drsel]

Updated list
Previously sold
Costa neoClassica sold to Bahamas Paradise
Costa neoRiviera sold to AIDA (group Co.)
Costa Atlantica - sold to Carnival-China JV
Costa Mediterranea - sold to Carnival-China JV
P&O Aus Pacific Aria - sold to CMV, early departure
P&O Aus Pacific Dawn-sold to CMV, early departure

Confirmed
Costa Victoria - sold for scrap
P&O Oceana sold to Greek buyer-Chinese interests
HAL Maasdam
HAL Veendam
HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen
HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen
Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises
Golden Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia
Star Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia

Very Likely
Carnival Fascination - sold for scrap
Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap
Carnival Elation - sold for scrap
Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap
Carnival Ecstasy - sold for scrap
Carnival Fantasy- sold for scrap

[KmomChicago]

On 7/16/2020 at 6:22 PM, jimbo5544 said:

Depending on the breakout of whose barn the leaving ships come from, it is entirely possible that Carnival’s homeports will change significantly, at the minimum for the next two years.  The startup when it occurs will be gradual, best guess is six and then nine.  They will want to optimize revenue and profit. Where ever that leads them is where they will go.

Agreed but I think with concerns about flights (on top of all the other concerns) there is a case to be made for continued service of the large choice of departure ports which puts the line within a day’s drive of much of the population of the USA . As noted already though, I believe the four spirit class plus the two newest Fantasy class ships would be enough to do so.

 

I realize it’s all based on factors as yet unknown - when cruises can resume, what the demand will be, how much capacity ships and ports can handle, whether they can make the new business model work at all, and probably worst of all, what if they resume and experience another onboard outbreak as with the Princess ships?

[KmomChicago]

7 hours ago, drsel said:

Updated list
Previously sold
Costa neoClassica sold to Bahamas Paradise
Costa neoRiviera sold to AIDA (group Co.)
Costa Atlantica - sold to Carnival-China JV
Costa Mediterranea - sold to Carnival-China JV
P&O Aus Pacific Aria - sold to CMV, early departure
P&O Aus Pacific Dawn-sold to CMV, early departure

Confirmed
Costa Victoria - sold for scrap
P&O Oceana sold to Greek buyer-Chinese interests
HAL Maasdam
HAL Veendam
HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen
HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen
Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises
Golden Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia
Star Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia

Very Likely
Carnival Fascination - sold for scrap
Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap
Carnival Elation - sold for scrap
Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap
Carnival Ecstasy - sold for scrap
Carnival Fantasy- sold for scrap

Wouldn’t Sensation go before Elation?

[quattrohead]

Ship	Last update	Balconies ?
Fantasy 1990	2/1/2016 - FS2.0	No
Ecstasy 1991	10/1/2019 - FS1.0	Yes
Sensation 1993	2/1/2020 - FS1.0	Yes
Fascination 1994	2/1/2018 - FS2.0	Yes
Imagination 1995	9/1/2016 - FS2.0	No
Inspiration 1996	11/1/2018 - FS1.0	No
Elation 1998 - AZ	10/1/2017 - FS2.0	Yes
Paradise 1998 - AZ	3/1/2018 - FS2.0	Yes

 

Sensation just had a service so It will likely stay or be sold, not scrapped.

Elation and Paradise are safe, Imagination and Inspiration are on the chopping block along with Fantasy.

[jimbo5544]

On 7/16/2020 at 10:57 PM, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

  The smart money gave the forecast in March - yes, March - that the scrappers would be doing big, big business from the cruise lines.

 

    Self-proclaimed experts on CC dismissed the forecasts again and again. Only to slowly, slowly start coming around to reality in late July. 👻

 

     Sad truth: if CLIA doesn't get its act together soon, there'll be plenty more grim news ahead for the cruise industry. 

Is this thread about clia? 

[jimbo5544]

35 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

Agreed but I think with concerns about flights (on top of all the other concerns) there is a case to be made for continued service of the large choice of departure ports which puts the line within a day’s drive of much of the population of the USA . As noted already though, I believe the four spirit class plus the two newest Fantasy class ships would be enough to do so.

 

I realize it’s all based on factors as yet unknown - when cruises can resume, what the demand will be, how much capacity ships and ports can handle, whether they can make the new business model work at all, and probably worst of all, what if they resume and experience another onboard outbreak as with the Princess ships?

What happened on the Princess ships would never happen again. Sick crew transferred feim o e shup to another unknowing.  The people were kept on the ships.  The cdc mandate  ensures this.  They will institute as many measures as possible.   Is it foolproof, absolutely not   Will it work, high probability yes 

Edited July 18, 2020 by jimbo5544

[jsglow]

Inspiration now joins Fantasy underway toward Izmar, TK, likely with an eventual mooring at Aliaga.

[KmomChicago]

7 hours ago, quattrohead said:

Ship	Last update	Balconies ?
Fantasy 1990	2/1/2016 - FS2.0	No
Ecstasy 1991	10/1/2019 - FS1.0	Yes
Sensation 1993	2/1/2020 - FS1.0	Yes
Fascination 1994	2/1/2018 - FS2.0	Yes
Imagination 1995	9/1/2016 - FS2.0	No
Inspiration 1996	11/1/2018 - FS1.0	No
Elation 1998 - AZ	10/1/2017 - FS2.0	Yes
Paradise 1998 - AZ	3/1/2018 - FS2.0	Yes

 

Sensation just had a service so It will likely stay or be sold, not scrapped.

Elation and Paradise are safe, Imagination and Inspiration are on the chopping block along with Fantasy.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I just went to the main Cruise Critic page for Carnival Sensation - not the boards - and the last four reviews, all from cruises since that short January dry dock, said that the renovations were fairly substantial and gave the trip positive reviews. Apparently John Heald indicated a lot of carpet was replaced, so it makes sense that they would like to get use out of it. As the only Fantasy class ship we've had the pleasure to sail, this is happy news.

[stormy_weatherman]

I think they could get rid of most of the Fantasy class (save for Elation and Paradise) and still maintain most of the home ports the ships will be assigned to next summer. This would cut down on shorter (3-4 day) cruises, and would also mean they would have to let go of Mobile, San Juan, and New York City as home ports - and likely Alaska for a time - unless they choose to reposition ships for a limited season. I think we could also see the end of the 3-4 day trips from Long Beach, with the Panorama being the only ship sailing from the port. 

 

This, of course, assumes they bring the Mardi Gras on as scheduled next Spring and don't scrap the Victory before it gets the Radiance conversion. If the Radiance project dies and we do get rid of most of the Fantasy class, I could also see Carnival giving up Fort Lauderdale, given its proximity to Miami and the plethora of choices from that port. Just my thoughts after considering the whole fleet, the likely removals from the fleet, and home ports which seem most feasible to continue going forward. 

[coffeeboy77]

30 minutes ago, stormy_weatherman said:

I think they could get rid of most of the Fantasy class (save for Elation and Paradise) and still maintain most of the home ports the ships will be assigned to next summer. This would cut down on shorter (3-4 day) cruises, and would also mean they would have to let go of Mobile, San Juan, and New York City as home ports - and likely Alaska for a time - unless they choose to reposition ships for a limited season. I think we could also see the end of the 3-4 day trips from Long Beach, with the Panorama being the only ship sailing from the port. 

 

This, of course, assumes they bring the Mardi Gras on as scheduled next Spring and don't scrap the Victory before it gets the Radiance conversion. If the Radiance project dies and we do get rid of most of the Fantasy class, I could also see Carnival giving up Fort Lauderdale, given its proximity to Miami and the plethora of choices from that port. Just my thoughts after considering the whole fleet, the likely removals from the fleet, and home ports which seem most feasible to continue going forward. 

I’m not sure about this.  I think 3-5 day cruises will be a little more common in post-COVID  2021. You may see more spirit and conquest class ships doing these cruises.  Also, I don’t think they will want to give up the lucrative Alaska season, and I think all those domestic Alaskan ports would welcome the ships.  As for California, rumor had it rccl was intending to bring in a newer ship to do a catalina run...not sure if carnival would want to hand that over to royal after making the big investment in Long Beach, their busiest home port with respect to departures.

[xDisconnections]

18 minutes ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I’m not sure about this.  I think 3-5 day cruises will be a little more common in post-COVID  2021. You may see more spirit and conquest class ships doing these cruises.  Also, I don’t think they will want to give up the lucrative Alaska season, and I think all those domestic Alaskan ports would welcome the ships.  As for California, rumor had it rccl was intending to bring in a newer ship to do a catalina run...not sure if carnival would want to hand that over to royal after making the big investment in Long Beach, their busiest home port with respect to departures.

Royal has been known to use Voyager and Freedom class ships for shorter 3-5 night cruises. This gives them the competitive advantage and, in my opinion, provides a better overall experience with a higher perceived value.

[coffeeboy77]

14 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Royal has been known to use Voyager and Freedom class ships for shorter 3-5 night cruises. This gives them the competitive advantage and, in my opinion, provides a better overall experience with a higher perceived value.

I agree, but I believe they will keep at least two fantasy class ships to service the smaller home ports.  Plus, these ships are still appreciated by the loyalists for the most part.

[xDisconnections]

1 minute ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I agree, but I believe they will keep at least two fantasy class ships to service the smaller home ports.  Plus, these ships are still appreciated by the loyalists for the most part.

They all deserve to be scrapped. Every single one of those rust buckets.

Edited July 19, 2020 by xDisconnections

[coffeeboy77]

Hahaha! Tell us how you really feel.  I will say they aren’t my favorites, but it’s sad they’re being scrapped so early...it just doesn’t seem like good stewardship to me.  The Inspiration was a 1996 build.  These ships can be serviceable for as much as 50 years with maintenance.  It’s too bad a smaller line in a different market overseas  couldn’t take them on.  I’m sure this pandemic put the final nail in coffin.

[BlerkOne]

49 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

They all deserve to be scrapped. Every single one of those rust buckets.

 

You must be referring to the Royal ships. No one can touch Carnival on shorter cruises from more ports. At least not before c19. We will have to see what ships and ports survive.