Arnold Donald “Constant Dialogue” on starting cruises

[jimbo5544]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23615-donald-constant-dialogue-on-resuming-u-s-cruising.html

[FiredogCruiser]

I think at this point it is still far to early to draw any conclusions about when cruising will resume, and more importantly where. While everyone seems focused on the CDC and their no sail order, and whether or not they will extend it again, I am more interested in shore side emergency management decisions in port cities, which will determine whether or not ports open, and or to what extent. I am more concerned about ports refusing to open, or dramatically limiting throughput, due to their inability to manage shore issues.

What I have read regarding the science does not jell port opening recommendations I have seen. For example if one person on a ship were to test positively upon return, the science does not justify refusal, or 100% isolation, yet that is what is being proposed in some places I see.

Additionally, cruising has traditionally been attacked, unjustifiably by environmentalists, as being a major source of pollution, which it is not, yet I see a number of environmental activists urging more draconian measures be employed against the industry.

[skridge]

This article is dripping with irony.  The meeting in question to be held at the White House to talk about getting back to sailing out of US ports during the Covid 19 pandemic is cancelled because the West Wing of the White House is being ravaged by an outbreak of the virus they were supposed to be meeting about.

[d-train]

1 hour ago, FiredogCruiser said:

I think at this point it is still far to early to draw any conclusions about when cruising will resume, and more importantly where. While everyone seems focused on the CDC and their no sail order, and whether or not they will extend it again, I am more interested in shore side emergency management decisions in port cities, which will determine whether or not ports open, and or to what extent. I am more concerned about ports refusing to open, or dramatically limiting throughput, due to their inability to manage shore issues.

What I have read regarding the science does not jell port opening recommendations I have seen. For example if one person on a ship were to test positively upon return, the science does not justify refusal, or 100% isolation, yet that is what is being proposed in some places I see.

Additionally, cruising has traditionally been attacked, unjustifiably by environmentalists, as being a major source of pollution, which it is not, yet I see a number of environmental activists urging more draconian measures be employed against the industry.

 

Exactly.

 

Fairview, PA!! We live there too!

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Organized Chaos said:

Unfortunately, it's mostly up to the CDC now. I say unfortunately because, in my opinion, they've had it out for the cruise industry for years.

This constantly amuses me.  If the CDC "had it in" for the cruise industry for years, all they would have had to do was rescind the VSP (that was a collaborative effort between the CDC and cruise industry), and revert to their original mandate of a full sanitary inspection and health interviews with passengers and crew before allowing disembarkation, each and every time the ship returns to a US port after visiting a foreign port.  That would have done the cruise industry in a couple of decades ago. 

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This constantly amuses me.  If the CDC "had it in" for the cruise industry for years, all they would have had to do was rescind the VSP (that was a collaborative effort between the CDC and cruise industry), and revert to their original mandate of a full sanitary inspection and health interviews with passengers and crew before allowing disembarkation, each and every time the ship returns to a US port after visiting a foreign port.  That would have done the cruise industry in a couple of decades ago. 

Cant speak for many years...but I think you know my thoughts on this year. 😉

[Bgcruising]

Just checking the latest article link.

[Organized Chaos]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This constantly amuses me.  If the CDC "had it in" for the cruise industry for years, all they would have had to do was rescind the VSP (that was a collaborative effort between the CDC and cruise industry), and revert to their original mandate of a full sanitary inspection and health interviews with passengers and crew before allowing disembarkation, each and every time the ship returns to a US port after visiting a foreign port.  That would have done the cruise industry in a couple of decades ago. 

 

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less that you're amused. I know nothing of the VSP you speak of because I'm not in the industry like you are. My comment is based on the collection of statements I've seen released by the CDC, not just during this pandemic, but also prior to it. I don't remember ever reading anything good coming out of the CDC when they've addressed the cruise industry. The fact that they intended to extend their no-sail order until mid-Feb. is ridiculous and. To me, that says a lot about what they think of the industry and its importance to the economies of multiple states here at home as well as port nations that heavily rely on it. They have no idea what things will look like in one month, let alone in 4+ months.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less that you're amused. I know nothing of the VSP you speak of because I'm not in the industry like you are. My comment is based on the collection of statements I've seen released by the CDC, not just during this pandemic, but also prior to it. I don't remember ever reading anything good coming out of the CDC when they've addressed the cruise industry. The fact that they intended to extend their no-sail order until mid-Feb. is ridiculous and. To me, that says a lot about what they think of the industry and its importance to the economies of multiple states here at home as well as port nations that heavily rely on it. They have no idea what things will look like in one month, let alone in 4+ months.

You don't see a value in someone inspecting ships for food safety or keeping a scoresheet on noro outbreaks (soon to include covid, likely)?

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less that you're amused. I know nothing of the VSP you speak of because I'm not in the industry like you are. My comment is based on the collection of statements I've seen released by the CDC, not just during this pandemic, but also prior to it. I don't remember ever reading anything good coming out of the CDC when they've addressed the cruise industry. The fact that they intended to extend their no-sail order until mid-Feb. is ridiculous and. To me, that says a lot about what they think of the industry and its importance to the economies of multiple states here at home as well as port nations that heavily rely on it. They have no idea what things will look like in one month, let alone in 4+ months.

Surely, if you've followed the cruise industry, you are aware of the USPH inspections of cruise ships for vessel sanitation?  That is the VSP (Vessel Sanitation Program), initiated by the CDC under it's mandate to prevent the introduction of infectious disease into the US, and performed by inspectors of the uniformed USPH officer corps.  This program started in the 70's, when cruising first started, and both the cruise lines and the CDC realized that inspecting a ship every time it returned to the US would place an undue financial hardship on the cruise lines, so the CDC and the cruise lines got together to work out a compromise plan.  This plan says that if the ships follow the requirements 24/7, then they will only be subject to one or two random inspections per year, not every week.  In making this plan, the CDC set the requirements based on best epidemiological practices to protect the health of the US population (not the cruising public), and the cruise lines responded with detailed procedures that were considered, by them, to be practicable.  This is exactly what the current no sail order has done.  The CDC has set the requirements based on their expertise, epidemiology, and required the cruise lines to formulate procedures and protocols based on their expertise, running a cruise line.  To date, the cruise lines have not done their part, and this is why cruising is still not happening.

Doesn't sound like an agency "out to get" an industry, to me.  I'd love to see an example of a comment by the CDC disparaging the cruise industry, pre-pandemic, since even on the CDC website, they downplay the significance of noro when compared to the total cases in the US.

Edited October 7, 2020 by chengkp75

[skridge]

6 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less that you're amused. I know nothing of the VSP you speak of because I'm not in the industry like you are. My comment is based on the collection of statements I've seen released by the CDC, not just during this pandemic, but also prior to it. I don't remember ever reading anything good coming out of the CDC when they've addressed the cruise industry. The fact that they intended to extend their no-sail order until mid-Feb. is ridiculous and. To me, that says a lot about what they think of the industry and its importance to the economies of multiple states here at home as well as port nations that heavily rely on it. They have no idea what things will look like in one month, let alone in 4+ months.

They are the Center for Disease control.  They see a disease that can't be controlled on a ship so they issued a no sail order because of said disease.  

[jimbo5544]

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/people-opinions/cruise-leaders-highly-optimistic-us-restart-year

[quattrohead]

They have to be because they get paid to be !!

NCL need 60 days to get a ship ready to operate again and it sounds like they have not started.

I want to cruise again and am happy to be an early test mule, but only at the right price and I will only part with my cash at short notice when I am as sure as possible it will not get cancelled.

[English-Greg]

So been seeing posts about the 6 ships sailing in November.....I’m not convinced!!

 

let me explain. November 1st is only just over 3 weeks away. How are Carnival going to get enough staff back to fully tender to the guests. By my reckoning, that’s over 6,000 staff. Ok, so they get them back, tested and on board. I know they have to be medically fit to be on board but most of these people have been gone for 6 months. A lot can happen in that time but let’s say all goes well there too. They are on board, healthy and ready to go.....but I’m sure they need to renew their certifications. Many will have expired. Safety, food hygiene etc! Probably only a day or so in a classroom when there are a few at a time but 6,000 in one go...hmmm. But to me the main problem is getting these people on flights in time and those people being allowed into the US without a period of quarantine. 
 

im not saying it can’t happen but thinking it through, I think it’s unlikely all 6 ships will sail.....hope I’m wrong and time will tell.

[xDisconnections]

9 minutes ago, English-Greg said:

So been seeing posts about the 6 ships sailing in November.....I’m not convinced!!

 

let me explain. November 1st is only just over 3 weeks away. How are Carnival going to get enough staff back to fully tender to the guests. By my reckoning, that’s over 6,000 staff. Ok, so they get them back, tested and on board. I know they have to be medically fit to be on board but most of these people have been gone for 6 months. A lot can happen in that time but let’s say all goes well there too. They are on board, healthy and ready to go.....but I’m sure they need to renew their certifications. Many will have expired. Safety, food hygiene etc! Probably only a day or so in a classroom when there are a few at a time but 6,000 in one go...hmmm. But to me the main problem is getting these people on flights in time and those people being allowed into the US without a period of quarantine. 
 

im not saying it can’t happen but thinking it through, I think it’s unlikely all 6 ships will sail.....hope I’m wrong and time will tell.

Limited capacity and lower budgets will equal fewer associates on their payroll. Many positions that aren’t essential to the needs of the business will be eliminated and the workload of others will increase to maintain efficiency. 
 

There are a lot of logistics that are required behind the scenes but each one, if approached on its own, has a reasonable way to fulfill the requirements. Without stating my views and opinions regarding cancellations and only going by the official information we received from the cruise operator regarding a November 1 limited return to cruising date, how do you know Carnival has yet to already start this process quietly without a public announcement?

[hurricane0226]

I agree, I believe that Carnival has probably had started to get ready to sail on Nov 1st. With what is coming

out on the news about sailing again, They should be preparing. 

[phoneman69]

On 10/7/2020 at 6:52 AM, skridge said:

They are the Center for Disease control.  They see a disease that can't be controlled on a ship so they issued a no sail order because of said disease.  

So if my local supermarket has a bad food product we should shut down all supermarkets until that bad food products contact tracing can be confirmed. Please measures are being put in place.

[skridge]

4 hours ago, phoneman69 said:

So if my local supermarket has a bad food product we should shut down all supermarkets until that bad food products contact tracing can be confirmed. Please measures are being put in place.

This is apples and oranges.  They recall the bad food product.  You can't recall the people getting on the ship with the virus.  Once they are on that ship has sailed and they are spreading the virus like wildfire just like we saw in the beginning on the Princess ship and others.  Yes some of the protocols put in place will slow the spread of the virus, but it will still spread.  I know many people have a get back on the cruise ships at all costs mentality.  I want to get back on a ship just as much as they do.  I just don't want to add to the already out of control spread of this virus with over 6.5 million cases in the US and over 212k deaths.

[Organized Chaos]

22 hours ago, English-Greg said:

So been seeing posts about the 6 ships sailing in November.....I’m not convinced!!

 

let me explain. November 1st is only just over 3 weeks away. How are Carnival going to get enough staff back to fully tender to the guests. By my reckoning, that’s over 6,000 staff. Ok, so they get them back, tested and on board. I know they have to be medically fit to be on board but most of these people have been gone for 6 months. A lot can happen in that time but let’s say all goes well there too. They are on board, healthy and ready to go.....but I’m sure they need to renew their certifications. Many will have expired. Safety, food hygiene etc! Probably only a day or so in a classroom when there are a few at a time but 6,000 in one go...hmmm. But to me the main problem is getting these people on flights in time and those people being allowed into the US without a period of quarantine. 
 

im not saying it can’t happen but thinking it through, I think it’s unlikely all 6 ships will sail.....hope I’m wrong and time will tell.

 

22 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

how do you know Carnival has yet to already start this process quietly without a public announcement?

 

I agree with xDisconnections (if I understood him correctly). I'm sure the cruise lines have the logistics worked out. They've had to repeatedly set and reset start dates every time the shutdown got extended. I find it hard to believe that they'd commit to a start date without having the plan in place to be ready for it. I think they're ready, willing, & capable.

[Cruiseboy06]

43 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

 

I agree with xDisconnections (if I understood him correctly). I'm sure the cruise lines have the logistics worked out. They've had to repeatedly set and reset start dates every time the shutdown got extended. I find it hard to believe that they'd commit to a start date without having the plan in place to be ready for it. I think they're ready, willing, & capable.

It's  still not official start date!!!!!!!!!    The CDC has not approved the new guidelines nor had a White  House meeting  yet

[BlerkOne]

51 minutes ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

It's  still not official start date!!!!!!!!!    The CDC has not approved the new guidelines nor had a White  House meeting  yet

What the heck does the White House have to do with anything?

[Cruiseboy06]

32 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

What the heck does the White House have to do with anything?

 hmm  They overrode the CDC and set a meeting for last Friday, but it was canceled!!!

[BlerkOne]

54 minutes ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

 hmm  They overrode the CDC and set a meeting for last Friday, but it was canceled!!!

So there is no need for a meeting.

 

Meanwhile...

 

The PortMiami vessel movements calendar lists Navigator of the Seas as in port two times in October, indicating the ship may arrive for a series of test sailings.

• October 15 to October 19
• October 24 to October 28

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

 hmm  They overrode the CDC and set a meeting for last Friday, but it was canceled!!!

I think the White House has more pressing issues at the moment than the start of cruising. I would not expect this meeting to be rescheduled.

[ProgRockCruiser]

35 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I think the White House has more pressing issues at the moment than the start of cruising. I would not expect this meeting to be rescheduled.

Indeed, I agree.

 

So what does that mean?  Without "guidance" does the industry implement their plans as currently shaped, or are they prohibited from moving forward until Somebody Important gives it their blessing?  With the CDC already having their hand slapped by Pence, I don't see a lot of "oh, go ahead and start cruising, we'll talk later".