Covid Passports

[janice2348]

On 11/30/2020 at 7:24 AM, FredT said:

Dont want to take the vaccine?   Dont.   Stay home.   Dont go out to eat, dont travel, dont go to the doctors, dont see family or friends.....  just dont.   By your figuring, you "may" have an answer in 2-3 years and can come out of your basement.   Not me.    I'll pull out my old "yellow card" and get the vaccine and go back to living.   

Exactly that.  Your choice to be isolated and be unable to travel, etc.  I choose minor, temporary discomfort over living like a hermit.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by janice2348

[janice2348]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:59 AM, TSUmom said:

I agree with you.....I am not anti-vaxxer but I am also not wanting to be a guinea pig for the Covid Vaccine.  I used to be a faithful flu vaxxer but still ended up with the flu numerous times so now I just don't take it.  Not sure what we will do if a vaccine is required for our August cruise.  We may just stick to driving vacations like we have been doing the past 6 months.

See #1 and #3

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/10-flu-myths
 

 

 

[nomad098]

6 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

Article appearing today shows a card that will be issued with vaccine record and as a reminder of second injection date.  I worry this is easily forged.  Or blank cards easily stolen.  And many will lose them. I plan to keep mine with my passport.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-19-vaccination-kit-record-card/index.html

 

 

 

Something similar here in Wales, no mention of cards in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/coronavirus-covid-vaccine-rollout-doctors-19382944

 

 

[ziggyuk]

7 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

Article appearing today shows a card that will be issued with vaccine record and as a reminder of second injection date.  I worry this is easily forged.  Or blank cards easily stolen.  And many will lose them. I plan to keep mine with my passport.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-19-vaccination-kit-record-card/index.html

 

 

 

I honestly think almost any vaccination record could be forged but anyone that stupid and willing to hand forged documents over to customs officials are braver than me, there are countries that take endangering their citizens very seriously.

 

Yellow fever certificates are required in many countries, I think they are very forgeable, but handing a forgery over at customs, that takes guts.

[KarimaJ]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:04 PM, winterbliss said:

Agree 100 percent!

Agree. I would like to see the Long term effects of 1-2 years first. Remember the Moderna vaccine bypassed animal testing. The pfizer vaccine did some animal testing.

[Tippyton]

I have a certificate showing I had Covid already.  I've never seen crippled kids in wheelchairs get polio shots. Somebody please explain why I need the vaccine?

[tallnthensome]

6 hours ago, Tippyton said:

I have a certificate showing I had Covid already.  I've never seen crippled kids in wheelchairs get polio shots. Somebody please explain why I need the vaccine?

Because my wife’s boss has had it twice about 9 months apart ...... Getting it the first time did not stop her from getting infected again and infecting others. My wife’s entire department is under quarantine..... again. This is not polio. Good enough reason? 

[ziggyuk]

7 hours ago, Tippyton said:

I have a certificate showing I had Covid already.  I've never seen crippled kids in wheelchairs get polio shots. Somebody please explain why I need the vaccine?

 

49 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Because my wife’s boss has had it twice about 9 months apart ...... Getting it the first time did not stop her from getting infected again and infecting others. My wife’s entire department is under quarantine..... again. This is not polio. Good enough reason? 

 

@tallnthensome is spot on, I am part of the Oxford trial and when it started I was told it would be 1 shot then in July they found the protection was limited with one shot and two were needed to produce enough antibodies.

The way they explained it was if you get covid with mild symptoms you will not have many antibodies, if you have a severe case you will have many more antibodies as you were fighting for your life.
But, even a severe case they found the protection started to wane after 3 months, they still do not know how long a 2 shot vaccine will protect and it will probably also start to wane, but due to it's much higher starting point it will still give protection for much much longer.

 

They really don't know how long the protection will last at this time but it could easily be an annual booster.

 

To answer your question @Tippyton your vaccine shot will be a booster to the antibodies you already have to give you much longer protection, if you decide get the shot your body will think it's got the virus again and go into overdrive fighting it.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ziggyuk

[pe4all]

8 hours ago, Tippyton said:

I have a certificate showing I had Covid already.  I've never seen crippled kids in wheelchairs get polio shots. Somebody please explain why I need the vaccine?

DD had covid (NYC) in March - luckily not too severe. (loss of taste and smell, headache, body aches)  When antibody testing hit the city in the beginning of April she was tested, and found to have antibodies.  She donated plasma.  She went again last week for covid/antibody test, as she came back from Florida.  No antibodies detected.  Somewhere from the first week in April until last week her antibodies "disappeared."  Did they last 1 month, or 8?  No one knows.  Either way, she will get the vaccine when it comes out.  

[Formula280SS]

12 minutes ago, pe4all said:

DD had covid (NYC) in March - luckily not too severe. (loss of taste and smell, headache, body aches)  When antibody testing hit the city in the beginning of April she was tested, and found to have antibodies.  She donated plasma.  She went again last week for covid/antibody test, as she came back from Florida.  No antibodies detected.  Somewhere from the first week in April until last week her antibodies "disappeared."  Did they last 1 month, or 8?  No one knows.  Either way, she will get the vaccine when it comes out.  

 

Thanks for the information.

 

You raise an issue that we've been reading about "post vaccination."  It appears that, if the testing can be approved for at home subsequent monthly monitoring, it would help establish guidance for the duration of the vaccine's effectiveness (along many age and health categories).

 

We've also been wondering if, considering likely millions (possibly tens of millions, don't know) have had Covid and/or naturally have the antibodies, will they be pre-vaccine tested and, if so, does it mean that they don't get the vaccine at that time?

 

Again, thanks.

 

 

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

 

 

@tallnthensome is spot on, I am part of the Oxford trial and when it started I was told it would be 1 shot then in July they found the protection was limited with one shot and two were needed to produce enough antibodies.

The way they explained it was if you get covid with mild symptoms you will not have many antibodies, if you have a severe case you will have many more antibodies as you were fighting for your life.
But, even a severe case they found the protection started to wane after 3 months, they still do not know how long a 2 shot vaccine will protect and it will probably also start to wane, but due to it's much higher starting point it will still give protection for much much longer.

 

They really don't know how long the protection will last at this time but it could easily be an annual booster.

 

To answer your question @Tippyton your vaccine shot will be a booster to the antibodies you already have to give you much longer protection, if you decide get the shot your body will think it's got the virus again and go into overdrive fighting it.

You all are not understanding how it works.  I am not a doctor or epidemiologist, but shot or pair of shots from a vaccine developed merely months ago is no way, no how, any more efficacious than natural immunity.  Period.  In regards to SARS 2 we only know what we know.  But we know a lot about the relationship between SARS 1, 2, and MERS.  DEE-DUK-TIV reasoning it's called.  The only way we need boosters is if it becomes mutateable, which based on current research hasn't been shown to be significant as it relates to vaccine design.  When viruses mutate they generally become less deadly but more virulent, a la the common cold, which we have some immunity.  The second reason we would require boosters would be that the innate immunity simply wears off, as with the common cold or flu.  T-cell immunity still exists in those who caught COVID in the spring.

 

ALL of the data and research and evidence and SCIENCE is pointing and leaning towards a one and done scenario.  

 

Let's do a little research instead of recalling an unproven and anecdotal "my cousins friends boss" had it twice.  That's not science and if true, the scientists would be all over it.  Science also says there are lots of problems with test accurracy, especially early on.

 

Educate yourselves on the science, not what you read on SM.

[Tippyton]

Happy reading to the uninformed....😁.  One of many out there.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18450-4

[ziggyuk]

19 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

You all are not understanding how it works.  I am not a doctor or epidemiologist.

 

Educate yourselves on the science, not what you read on SM.

 

Correct, you're not an expert.

As I told you I am on the trial and what I wrote came straight from the team.

I know who I will listen too and it certainly won't be some random who admits they are no expert.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ziggyuk

[Linda the Book Lover]

Get the vaccination or not will be up to you. If it becomes a prerequisite to travel by air or cruise line, then I guess those who do not vaccinate will not use those methods of travel.

 

We had our pneumonia vaccine and then we found out later we needed a booster. Yep, we got it. The same thing happened with the shingles vaccines. The vaccines can help lower our chance of contracting these diseases and reduce the severity. 

 

ziggyuk -- Good point and thanks for sharing your experience .

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Correct, you're not an expert.

As I told you I am on the trial and what I wrote came straight from the team.

I know who I will listen too and it certainly won't be some random who admits they are no expert.

Snarky much?  I'm merely trying to educate.  Others can read this link below, amongst thousands of articles and papers out there, which address your half-truths.  There is lots of other misinformation and half truths out there on SM even like you posted - I'm really begging people to self-educate and not believe all the BS on SM. 

 

https://www.biospace.com/article/do-waning-covid-19-antibodies-mean-loss-of-immunity-/

 

Meanwhile, eat these words...

To answer your question @Tippyton your vaccine shot will be a booster to the antibodies you already have to give you much longer protection, if you decide get the shot your body will think it's got the virus again and go into overdrive fighting it.  >>>>>>  [I know who I will listen too and it certainly won't be some random who admits they are no expert.]

 

 

[ziggyuk]

2 hours ago, Tippyton said:

I have a certificate showing I had Covid already.  I've never seen crippled kids in wheelchairs get polio shots. Somebody please explain why I need the vaccine?

 

 

Why did you even bother to ask this question?

You already think you know the answer and clearly delight in belittling anyone to attempts to try to assist with your question.

Was it a real question or were you just trolling so you could "get off" on your retaliatory attack?

It's very clear you are not open to anything but your morrow minded nonsense you read on Facebook so why bother asking?

Edited December 5, 2020 by ziggyuk

[Tippyton]

38 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

Why did you even bother to ask this question?

You already think you know the answer and clearly delight in belittling anyone to attempts to try to assist with your question.

Was it a real question or were you just trolling so you could "get off" on your retaliatory attack?

It's very clear you are not open to anything but your morrow minded nonsense you read on Facebook so why bother asking?

The only thing I attacked was unsubstantiated assertions.  Thousands of cruisers have had covid and many are probably want answers too.  I'm just not timid about pushing back on non-scientific BS, nor am I too timid not to let others, who try to dictate to me/us what we should believe, know that I'm not taking their BS either.  The negative consequences of all the fear mongering are incalculable.

[vswan]

Several family members had covid very early on - Feb, early March. Displayed many of the known symptoms but were not tested for covid because tests were so limited. Some had coworkers with positive tests and were told to stay home if they displayed symptoms. Just not enough tests to test them all.

 

One had the antibody test done in late August. He still hadn't gotten back his taste and smell, but the antibody test showed no antibodies. Does this mean that he didn't have covid in the first place? Unlikely since his symptoms were so standard, and he also had tests for regular flu and strep at the time of symptoms and they both came back negative.

 

My son was part of a large work group who had the virus run rampant through the workplace. One coworker contracted again (positive test) sending my son into quarantine again. He said he experienced some chest tightening symptoms (the second time) but tested negative twice. Not sure if he still had enough antibodies to fight off most of it the second time.

 

My point is that this disease is still very new. No one knows for sure how it will behave, if you can get it repeatedly, or how long antibodies - whether natural or from a vaccine - will last, or if the vaccine will be safe or have long term effects.  All we can do is what we are comfortable with at this point. Educate yourself and make your decision. I will be in line for the vaccine if drs. I trust tell me it's safe. Not in a particularly dangerous group, but then it hits a healthy 30 year old.

[deliver42]

At 78, I am in a dangerous group, and I will get the vaccine ASAP. My odds of getting Covid with the vaccine should be a lot lower than without.

[hamrag]

11 hours ago, Tippyton said:

....The negative consequences of all the fear mongering are incalculable.

 

So, it's in your gift to stop fear mongering....what's stopping you? 😉

[tallnthensome]

21 hours ago, Tippyton said:

You all are not understanding how it works.  I am not a doctor or epidemiologist,

 

Let's do a little research instead of recalling an unproven and anecdotal "my cousins friends boss" had it twice.  That's not science and if true, the scientists would be all over it.  Science also says there are lots of problems with test accurracy, especially early on.

 

Educate yourselves on the science, not what you read on SM.

Correct, you’re not a doctor or anything else. You lost any credibility with your silly polio kid in the wheelchair comment hence why everyone is more or  less laughing  at you. The fact that my wife’s boss has been diagnosed twice, one of the few known cases,  is enough. Don’t tell others to go educate themselves . Heed your own advice...... Your posts are nonsense. 

[vpearlkc]

I am one of the people that will not cruise until vaccines are required and the new infection rate has dropped to near zero. My wife and I are just getting over  mild cases  of covid and have little faith that whatever antibodies we have acquired will last very long. I am 70 and intend to be vaccinated by June. My wife who is 59 may have to wait a little longer.

[FredT]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:01 PM, KarimaJ said:

Agree. I would like to see the Long term effects of 1-2 years first. Remember the Moderna vaccine bypassed animal testing. The pfizer vaccine did some animal testing.

So you are going to shelter in place for that 1-2 years?   Cause thats what you are saying.....

[FredT]

1 hour ago, vpearlkc said:

I am one of the people that will not cruise until vaccines are required and the new infection rate has dropped to near zero

Guess you are not planning on cruising for the next ____ number of years then, Cause the CDC has stated that they think no more than 60% of the population will take any vaccine.   That means 40% of the population will keep getting the virus, getting sick etc etc.   

[vpearlkc]

34 minutes ago, FredT said:

Guess you are not planning on cruising for the next ____ number of years then, Cause the CDC has stated that they think no more than 60% of the population will take any vaccine.   That means 40% of the population will keep getting the virus, getting sick etc etc.   

I guess I was not specific enough. I should have said "until vaccines are required for cruising" I know the antivaxxers will avoid the vaccine.