Covid Passports

[zqvol]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I want to make a slight distinction between an anti-vaxxer and an anti-covid-vaxxer. Just because someone is opposed to getting a Covid vaccine (companies are being given passes on liability and admit to pretty serious errors in dosage administration) does not mean we are opposed to vaccinations in general. There is a middle ground here because the Covid vaccine is so new.  

 

If I choose not to receive a Covid vaccine and, as a result, a cruise line denies me boarding I am 100% fine with those consequences. My choice, my consequences. I just want to distinguish between vaccines that have been properly vetted and those that have been rushed. I suspect there are others who, like me, are skeptical with this particular vaccination but don't consider ourselves 'anti-vaxxers' in general.

What does it take for you to decide that something is properly vetted? There is no rushing in the Covid vaccines, they are getting all the tests and trials that any other vaccine or drug gets. But, of course, there is no reason to believe the scientists and medical professionals, because they are out to cause harm to people.

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I want to make a slight distinction between an anti-vaxxer and an anti-covid-vaxxer. Just because someone is opposed to getting a Covid vaccine (companies are being given passes on liability and admit to pretty serious errors in dosage administration) does not mean we are opposed to vaccinations in general. There is a middle ground here because the Covid vaccine is so new.  

 

If I choose not to receive a Covid vaccine and, as a result, a cruise line denies me boarding I am 100% fine with those consequences. My choice, my consequences. I just want to distinguish between vaccines that have been properly vetted and those that have been rushed. I suspect there are others who, like me, are skeptical with this particular vaccination but don't consider ourselves 'anti-vaxxers' in general.

I guess you’re also prepared to forego every other activity that involves being nearby other people?

[hallux]

25 minutes ago, zqvol said:

What does it take for you to decide that something is properly vetted? There is no rushing in the Covid vaccines, they are getting all the tests and trials that any other vaccine or drug gets.

Exactly.  The only thing "warp speed" about the vaccines, that is being accelerated beyond normal, is the government approval process.  Yes, the development and testing DID go quick, but the technology they have now is magnitudes greater than what they had back in the days of Smallpox and TB.  Within a couple WEEKS the "DNA" of the virus had been identified and released to the pharmaceutical companies which gave them a quick start on the vaccine.  I think I saw an interview with someone from Pfizer where they indicated the vaccine was developed in a couple weeks using that information. That same vaccine that was developed back in April or May is the one that has been submitted for approval.

[seaman11]

when travel slows way down or stays very slow , they will not require this , i would imagine tourism going way down if its mandatory to get a vaccine that was rushed through clinical trials with no long term study of the effects done. 

[tallnthensome]

Moderna developed the vaccine in TWO DAYS. I have as much fear of something bad happening to me from it as my annual flu shot ..... That would be none. I will do my part to protect me and others around me and if it’s needed to cruise then no problem. Hell, the long term effects of NCL’s unlimited drink package for a week is probably worse for them than this vaccine will be. 

[TSUmom]

13 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I want to make a slight distinction between an anti-vaxxer and an anti-covid-vaxxer. Just because someone is opposed to getting a Covid vaccine (companies are being given passes on liability and admit to pretty serious errors in dosage administration) does not mean we are opposed to vaccinations in general. There is a middle ground here because the Covid vaccine is so new.  

 

If I choose not to receive a Covid vaccine and, as a result, a cruise line denies me boarding I am 100% fine with those consequences. My choice, my consequences. I just want to distinguish between vaccines that have been properly vetted and those that have been rushed. I suspect there are others who, like me, are skeptical with this particular vaccination but don't consider ourselves 'anti-vaxxers' in general.

I agree with you.....I am not anti-vaxxer but I am also not wanting to be a guinea pig for the Covid Vaccine.  I used to be a faithful flu vaxxer but still ended up with the flu numerous times so now I just don't take it.  Not sure what we will do if a vaccine is required for our August cruise.  We may just stick to driving vacations like we have been doing the past 6 months.

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, TSUmom said:

I agree with you.....I am not anti-vaxxer but I am also not wanting to be a guinea pig for the Covid Vaccine.  I used to be a faithful flu vaxxer but still ended up with the flu numerous times so now I just don't take it.  Not sure what we will do if a vaccine is required for our August cruise.  We may just stick to driving vacations like we have been doing the past 6 months.

 

Your argument is flawed, Flu vaccines are made guessing what the most likely flu will be with an effectiveness of around 35%-40% The Covid vaccines are to simply put it are targeted. Which is one of the reasons for the high percentage of them working. My wife works for the CDC / USDA. I can almost gurantee you a vaccine injection will be needed for every pax stepping on a cruise ship for the next 3-5 years

[hamrag]

16 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I want to make a slight distinction between an anti-vaxxer and an anti-covid-vaxxer. Just because someone is opposed to getting a Covid vaccine (companies are being given passes on liability and admit to pretty serious errors in dosage administration) does not mean we are opposed to vaccinations in general. There is a middle ground here because the Covid vaccine is so new.  

 

If I choose not to receive a Covid vaccine and, as a result, a cruise line denies me boarding I am 100% fine with those consequences. My choice, my consequences. I just want to distinguish between vaccines that have been properly vetted and those that have been rushed....

 

Fair comment.

[BermudaBound2014]

15 hours ago, zqvol said:

What does it take for you to decide that something is properly vetted? There is no rushing in the Covid vaccines, they are getting all the tests and trials that any other vaccine or drug gets. But, of course, there is no reason to believe the scientists and medical professionals, because they are out to cause harm to people.

 

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what it will take for me to feel the vaccine has been properly vetted, but I'm very open to learning. Right now, there are red flags for me. Here are my main concerns, perhaps you can help put my mind to rest. I mean that sincerely.

 

 My first concern with a Covid Vaccine is the timeline. The chart below was published today from the BBC. The Covid19 vaccine has been developed on an accelerated schedule. What is missing (for me) is the time spent in each phase to identify possible long term effects. While each step was taken, far less time was spend inside each step to identify possible side-effects that don't show up immediately. Legitimate concern or no?   https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

 

Second: It's not that I believe the scientists and medical professionals are out to cause harm, but I do believe that big pharm is out to make a buck. The most recent cases  involving the marketing and distribution of opiates should be evidence enough to show that big pharma is less than transparent. For those of you who have placed all your trust in big pharma (as in you will go get the vaccine immediately), how to you ignore all the mistakes that Big Pharma has made over the years? Are my concerns legitimate?

 https://www.narconon.org/blog/pharma-loses-major-lawsuit.html

https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/16/if-purdue-pharma-declares-bankruptcy-what-would-it-mean-for-lawsuits-against-the-opioid-manufacturer/

 

14 hours ago, hallux said:

Exactly.  The only thing "warp speed" about the vaccines, that is being accelerated beyond normal, is the government approval process.  Yes, the development and testing DID go quick, but the technology they have now is magnitudes greater than what they had back in the days of Smallpox and TB.  Within a couple WEEKS the "DNA" of the virus had been identified and released to the pharmaceutical companies which gave them a quick start on the vaccine.  I think I saw an interview with someone from Pfizer where they indicated the vaccine was developed in a couple weeks using that information. That same vaccine that was developed back in April or May is the one that has been submitted for approval.

 

Third: These are good points about medical advancement, but I still have questions I hope you can answer.  You stated that the only  thing 'warp speed" about the vaccine is the approval process, yet there is an organization from the department of defense ( with help from the CDC, WHO,  etc...) titled "Operation Warp Speed" where the mission statement reads: "Using the resources of the federal government and the U.S. private sector, Operation Warp Speed (OWS) will accelerate the testing, supply, development, and distribution of safe and effective vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to counter COVID-19 by January 2021." It seems that the "operation warp speed" does involve things other than the approval process or am I misunderstanding? 

 https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Operation-Warp-Speed/

 

You mentioned that the vaccine has not been accelerated beyond normal timeline, but I would ask you to respond to the chart I posted above (along with the link to "Operation Warp Speed" which contradicts that statement. Is spending years studying the effects of phase 2 and phase 3 on recipients no longer an necessary step in the process? I'm not a vaccine expert, but is there some medical advancement that negates the need for to monitor time as a variable?

 

Fourth: I'm also quite interested in understanding the disclaimer found below. It appears that phase three development has yet to be peer reviewed but Big pharma is asking the government to approve anyway? Am I understanding that correctly? It this something the general public should question or is this just normal practice we should accept as protocol?  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

 

Finally, for those of you who feel the vaccine has been carefully developed, can you please comment on your thoughts behind the dosage 'mistake' made by AstraZenica? Approximately 20% of the recipients were given the wrong dosage by 'accident'. Seriously, can't make this up. Ultimately the findings were positive, but I can't help but ask, "How does this happen in a well regulated lab?" Seriously, an 'accident' as in 'whopsie-daisy". DH was a R/D chemist and was absolutely shocked this could happen in any scientific setting let alone one under a covid lens. Perhaps there is a very logical explanation but it's hard for me to trust a product that comes from a company that can make an error of this magnitude regardless of the outcome.

 

I would sincerely appreciate a response from those who are planning to receive the vaccine. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I truly do seek to understand, but right now I lack trust in the process.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[PelicanBill]

The timeline chart you just showed is exactly my concern as well.  I am forced to weight the risks of contracting covid as a person with high risk of hospitalization and death, versus a vaccine that has been created in one-fifth the time we normally take. We simply have no idea if there are long-term risks with this.  It's not a choice I want to make.  I will probably get the vaccine because I want to be free to move about again, and want to travel.

[hallux]

If I'm understanding the reports I've heard, the COVID vaccine is a new style vaccine, unlike any other that has been used.  It's something (not specifically related to COVID) that's been in the works, and the developers were easily able to use this new tech with COVID grafted in place of whatever they were using previously.

 

I have to wonder if there were trials of the "base" that have been completed, and the accelerated timeline was because they only had to test it with the COVID "programming".  I saw a report during an NBC broadcast where they talked about the "code" for the virus having been cracked within 2 weeks and toured a Pfizer facility with a researcher that showed one of the first vials of the vaccine they had produced back in the Spring, the new style vaccine idea was also discussed during that report.

[BermudaBound2014]

16 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I guess you’re also prepared to forego every other activity that involves being nearby other people?

I believe this statement is largely hyperbole. I can see the possibility of a vaccine required to cruise, fly, attend concerts, public transportation, etc, but I can not see a vaccine being required will change my life much. My most common activities include hike, kayak, boat, camp, ski, enjoy our cabin in the woods, bonfires, cardgames, etc.... what the virus had taught me is that I naturally avoid crowds and much prefer sharing activities with those in my very close tribe. Not cruising will be a bummer, but I will adjust with minimal effort. For those with a less outdoor active lifestyle I can see where a mandatory vaccine might be more intrusive.

[PelicanBill]

17 minutes ago, hallux said:

If I'm understanding the reports I've heard, the COVID vaccine is a new style vaccine, unlike any other that has been used.  It's something (not specifically related to COVID) that's been in the works, and the developers were easily able to use this new tech with COVID grafted in place of whatever they were using previously.

 

I have to wonder if there were trials of the "base" that have been completed, and the accelerated timeline was because they only had to test it with the COVID "programming".  I saw a report during an NBC broadcast where they talked about the "code" for the virus having been cracked within 2 weeks and toured a Pfizer facility with a researcher that showed one of the first vials of the vaccine they had produced back in the Spring, the new style vaccine idea was also discussed during that report.

 

Yes two use the RNA mechanism rather than the viral vector (which is the oxford-AZ one).  But you can't shortcut the study of long term efficacy or long term negative health impacts. Normally we study a vaccine for over 4 years of tests/trials.  We did this one with less than a year of tests/trials.  It may be fine as we rely on methods tried and true for decades. But the RNA method is new, and this virus is new, and we just can't be as sure as we usually are.  But we really have no choice - we must take the risk to save the people's lives, the economy and entire industries.

[PATRLR]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:35 PM, winterbliss said:

Do you notice how many pharmaceutical ads are on tv nowadays? Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me. What does that have to do with this, you may ask. That should be rather obvious...I respond.

I've seen no change in the volume of pharmaceutical ads since this pandemic started.  The pharmaceutical ads are a reflection of our severely broken healthcare system that rewards revenues and not outcomes.

 

On 11/30/2020 at 8:11 AM, winterbliss said:

I'm in no way trying to minimize the actual covid illness. 

Yes you are, that is exactly what you are doing with these words:

 

On 11/30/2020 at 8:11 AM, winterbliss said:

But the 'spike in cases' does not mean all of those have clinical infection. People are urged to go and get tested...even when they feel wonderful. Why... because even though we feel great, we're told there's a good chance we're not and we should stay home anyway. And, the accuracy of these tests? 

People who understand the problem don't really care about positive test rates.  With so many asymptomatic positives, who really cares about positive test results?  If you think the current "spike in cases" isn't real, please speak with anyone at your local hospital and ask them what their census is today.  Ask how many people are boarding in their EDs because they can't find a bed.  If you are in a bigger city, ask them if they are setting up their field hospitals in the local convention center or arena again. If you are in a small city, ask them how many patients they've had to ship to a hospital many miles away and ask if they are having problems finding places to ship these patients to.   Ask them if they are contemplating shutting down their ORs again and cancelling elective procedures, again.  Ask them how their staff is doing and how successful they are in attracting travelling nurses to backfill their needs compared to when they had to bring in travelers last spring.    

I am so tired of hearing people talk about positive test rates and death rates.  Neither by itself is a problem. It's sick people taking up beds in the hospital that is the problem and that is the ONLY reason we are trying to control the spread of this thing - so people aren't literally dying in the street because there is no resources available to help them.   

People keep comparing this to flu - well flu doesn't tie up an ICU bed for weeks on end before it finally kills you. It doesn't matter what the death rates are, it matters that with Covid you use up way more resources before it finally kills you.

 

16 hours ago, seaman11 said:

when travel slows way down or stays very slow , they will not require this , i would imagine tourism going way down if its mandatory to get a vaccine that was rushed through clinical trials with no long term study of the effects done. 

I suspect the opposite.  Lack of vaccine requirement will keep more of the general population away from cruising and travel.  Note that I said "general population" which is much different than the population of CC these days.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by PATRLR

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Finally, for those of you who feel the vaccine has been carefully developed, can you please comment on your thoughts behind the dosage 'mistake' made by AstraZenica? Approximately 20% of the recipients were given the wrong dosage by 'accident'. Seriously, can't make this up. Ultimately the findings were positive, but I can't help but ask, "How does this happen in a well regulated lab?" Seriously, an 'accident' as in 'whopsie-daisy". DH was a R/D chemist and was absolutely shocked this could happen in any scientific setting let alone one under a covid lens. Perhaps there is a very logical explanation but it's hard for me to trust a product that comes from a company that can make an error of this magnitude regardless of the outcome.

 

I would sincerely appreciate a response from those who are planning to receive the vaccine. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I truly do seek to understand, but right now I lack trust in the process.

 

Because of the additional scrutiny Astra Zeneca is under. I believe they are starting a new trial so that they can get that result on purpose because their "accidental" trial has clouded their results too much.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-26/astra-likely-to-run-fresh-global-covid-vaccine-trial-ceo-says

 

And this is a good thing. The company made a mistake, is not using good science, is trying to draw conclusions based on an improperly conducted study and is being heavily criticized for that. 

 

What exactly does that have to do with the other 8 drug companies with promising vaccines that did not make a mistake, have not been under fire, and that have voluntarily halted their trials at the slightest hint of a major negative side effect.  I was originally wary of the covid vaccine based on the accelerated time frames. But when things have gone wrong and it has been properly brought to light and addressed, I have gained confidence that they aren't making shortcuts.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I believe this statement is largely hyperbole. I can see the possibility of a vaccine required to cruise, fly, attend concerts, public transportation, etc, but I can not see a vaccine being required will change my life much. My most common activities include hike, kayak, boat, camp, ski, enjoy our cabin in the woods, bonfires, cardgames, etc.... what the virus had taught me is that I naturally avoid crowds and much prefer sharing activities with those in my very close tribe. Not cruising will be a bummer, but I will adjust with minimal effort. For those with a less outdoor active lifestyle I can see where a mandatory vaccine might be more intrusive.

 

I can also see a possibility of a vaccine required for cruising and international flying even if I'm not as sure that it will happen as many others seem to be.

 

Here a vaccination will not be required for concerts, domestic public transportation, school etc. so for my daily life it won't matter if I vaccinate or not. If the virus is here to stay I might vaccinate but not as soon as possible.

[Laszlo]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what it will take for me to feel the vaccine has been properly vetted, but I'm very open to learning. Right now, there are red flags for me. Here are my main concerns, perhaps you can help put my mind to rest. I mean that sincerely.

 

 My first concern with a Covid Vaccine is the timeline. The chart below was published today from the BBC. The Covid19 vaccine has been developed on an accelerated schedule. What is missing (for me) is the time spent in each phase to identify possible long term effects. While each step was taken, far less time was spend inside each step to identify possible side-effects that don't show up immediately. Legitimate concern or no?   https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

 

Second: It's not that I believe the scientists and medical professionals are out to cause harm, but I do believe that big pharm is out to make a buck. The most recent cases  involving the marketing and distribution of opiates should be evidence enough to show that big pharma is less than transparent. For those of you who have placed all your trust in big pharma (as in you will go get the vaccine immediately), how to you ignore all the mistakes that Big Pharma has made over the years? Are my concerns legitimate?

 https://www.narconon.org/blog/pharma-loses-major-lawsuit.html

https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/16/if-purdue-pharma-declares-bankruptcy-what-would-it-mean-for-lawsuits-against-the-opioid-manufacturer/

 

 

Third: These are good points about medical advancement, but I still have questions I hope you can answer.  You stated that the only  thing 'warp speed" about the vaccine is the approval process, yet there is an organization from the department of defense ( with help from the CDC, WHO,  etc...) titled "Operation Warp Speed" where the mission statement reads: "Using the resources of the federal government and the U.S. private sector, Operation Warp Speed (OWS) will accelerate the testing, supply, development, and distribution of safe and effective vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to counter COVID-19 by January 2021." It seems that the "operation warp speed" does involve things other than the approval process or am I misunderstanding? 

 https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Operation-Warp-Speed/

 

You mentioned that the vaccine has not been accelerated beyond normal timeline, but I would ask you to respond to the chart I posted above (along with the link to "Operation Warp Speed" which contradicts that statement. Is spending years studying the effects of phase 2 and phase 3 on recipients no longer an necessary step in the process? I'm not a vaccine expert, but is there some medical advancement that negates the need for to monitor time as a variable?

 

Fourth: I'm also quite interested in understanding the disclaimer found below. It appears that phase three development has yet to be peer reviewed but Big pharma is asking the government to approve anyway? Am I understanding that correctly? It this something the general public should question or is this just normal practice we should accept as protocol?  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

 

Finally, for those of you who feel the vaccine has been carefully developed, can you please comment on your thoughts behind the dosage 'mistake' made by AstraZenica? Approximately 20% of the recipients were given the wrong dosage by 'accident'. Seriously, can't make this up. Ultimately the findings were positive, but I can't help but ask, "How does this happen in a well regulated lab?" Seriously, an 'accident' as in 'whopsie-daisy". DH was a R/D chemist and was absolutely shocked this could happen in any scientific setting let alone one under a covid lens. Perhaps there is a very logical explanation but it's hard for me to trust a product that comes from a company that can make an error of this magnitude regardless of the outcome.

 

I would sincerely appreciate a response from those who are planning to receive the vaccine. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I truly do seek to understand, but right now I lack trust in the process.

 

Since I've personally known Katalin Karikó since 1985 I would not hesitate for a second to take Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine 

[Linda the Book Lover]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:18 PM, bssc said:

When we were kids we had to carry about our immunization records to get into most countries.  Mine was big and thick.  And we had to get some shots, like cholera, every six months.  I wonder how much of that will be coming back.

I still have those yellow folders from military travel/orders for my children. 

[PelicanBill]

Article appearing today shows a card that will be issued with vaccine record and as a reminder of second injection date.  I worry this is easily forged.  Or blank cards easily stolen.  And many will lose them. I plan to keep mine with my passport.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-19-vaccination-kit-record-card/index.html

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by PelicanBill

[All-ready2cruise]

10 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

I plan to keep mine with my passport.

This is my plan as well since I expect that I'll need it just to cross the border. 

[Laszlo]

35 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Article appearing today shows a card that will be issued with vaccine record and as a reminder of second injection date.  I worry this is easily forged.  Or blank cards easily stolen.  And many will lose them. I plan to keep mine with my passport.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-19-vaccination-kit-record-card/index.html

 

 

Don't worry, they will be serialzed and bar coded like the vaccine you receive. 

[PelicanBill]

9 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Don't worry, they will be serialzed and bar coded like the vaccine you receive. 

 

LOL I don't think so. "Simplest" was quoted in the reason. They will be reporting your record to a state registry so you can be looked up by a health care provider.  A new health care information web site developed by state IT in a rush. Nothing can go wrong.

 

My point is anywhere you to show proof of vaccination this card won't be worth the penny it cost to print it. I don't think they're going to give access to cruise lines to check in every state's registry.  And it totally breaks down internationally.  I think that is why IATA/BA are developing an app to show your proof. Not sure how they are thinking to validate your proof in that system, but if they figure it out, could be a better method.  Unless you don't have a smart phone.

[GA Dave]

1 hour ago, PelicanBill said:

 

LOL I don't think so. "Simplest" was quoted in the reason. They will be reporting your record to a state registry so you can be looked up by a health care provider.  A new health care information web site developed by state IT in a rush. Nothing can go wrong.

 

My point is anywhere you to show proof of vaccination this card won't be worth the penny it cost to print it. I don't think they're going to give access to cruise lines to check in every state's registry.  And it totally breaks down internationally.  I think that is why IATA/BA are developing an app to show your proof. Not sure how they are thinking to validate your proof in that system, but if they figure it out, could be a better method.  Unless you don't have a smart phone.

They will do at the ports like they are already doing at the major airports.  The last four times I have flown, I had to insert my ID into a scanning machine that the one TSA employees told me is hooked up to all of the state departments of motor vehicles.  It is similar to the machines here in GA that they use when you vote, as you must have a REAL ID here to vote.  As you said, many basic things like those cardboard cards can be forged/faked.  BUT, if they use something that must be scanned and the information does not match exactly with the state database, you are out of luck.

[Linda the Book Lover]

Just curious, I am guessing the HIPPA privacy rule does not count for this sharing of COVID vaccine types. I am also guessing the person who doubles checks everything before giving you the second vaccine (not counting your personal health provider) will not have any access to medical records of the person receiving the COVID vaccine or seeking proof if you have or have received both doses. Personally I could care less as in my opinion nothing is really private unless it is kept to oneself. I think they have some additional work needing to do done but then for years I traveled with a shot card. eek...showing my advanced age.😉😃

[Linda the Book Lover]

9 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

They will do at the ports like they are already doing at the major airports.  The last four times I have flown, I had to insert my ID into a scanning machine that the one TSA employees told me is hooked up to all of the state departments of motor vehicles.  It is similar to the machines here in GA that they use when you vote, as you must have a REAL ID here to vote.  As you said, many basic things like those cardboard cards can be forged/faked.  BUT, if they use something that must be scanned and the information does not match exactly with the state database, you are out of luck.

Thank goodness I have a Global ID which I use when traveling as when I applied online for my new DL I forgot to check the real ID box. Yeah, I know I have to go to DMV and get a new DL but I keep waiting and the government keeps extending which works for me.