Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date

[S.A.M.J.R.]

4 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Immunity is not 100% guaranteed anyway......it is 94% for Moderna and 95% for Pfizer vaccine here in the US. However, both vaccines are 100% guaranteed not to put anyone in the hospital if they do contract Covid. That is pretty good odds to me.

So.  Let's say 1000 people get on the cruise ship.  They've all been vaccinated.  However, 50 people, although vaccinated, still get sick.  So they can still spread it among themselves, right?  Tough luck to them?  And you won't know if you're part of that 50 or not.  

[easyqueasy]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

So far, there has been not one reported death directly attributed to either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. That looks pretty good to get the official approval for these vaccines. With the high efficacy rates and the minimal side effects, I'm hoping more and more anti-vaxxers will get on board with vaccination.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/
 

Depends on how you look at it. 

[easyqueasy]

13 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Don't even try to get on a ship unless the passenger has passed the 4 week period after the second shot. Immunity is not achieved until then. Anyone could  contract the virus until immunity is achieved.

 

Immunity is not 100% guaranteed anyway......it is 94% for Moderna and 95% for Pfizer vaccine here in the US. However, both vaccines are 100% guaranteed not to put anyone in the hospital if they do contract Covid. That is pretty good odds to me.

So you might be protected by not having to go to the hospital and yet might be asymptomatic and pass on to others whether on the ship or elsewhere. And possibly kill others by doing so as I’ve read on this board, but that’s ok I guess as long as the vaccinated people can cruise? I am seriously curious how long the vaccinated people are staying home until and how long the vaccinated people that put down people that are not vaccinated staying home until everyone has a chance to vaccinate so as to not pass it along.

[cured]

36 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Yeah can’t imagine why anyone would want a vaccine for a virus that most people don’t even know they have.

Because the spread needs to be contained to eliminate giving the virus willing hosts that allow it to mutate.  

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, lr657 said:

 

Even after we are vaccinated, we will not sail if we can't feel safe on a cruise and enjoy our experience. Having non-vaccinated people on a cruise will require restrictions to protect them which would not be needed if all passengers were vaccinated.  Royal is a private company and should be able to have certain requirements for those that cruise on their ships. It shouldn't matter if the vaccine was issued an emergency authorization or is approved, it's a requirement of the cruise line. It's the individuals choice to decide whether to meet that requirement, or not cruise. No one is being forced to get a vaccination, they are being given a choice.

Agree. There is no way in hell that I will continue to wear a mask to protect anti-vaxers. No way!!!! I'm not referring to our current situation. I'm referring to when we get to a point here in the US that anyone who WANTS to be vaccinated can easily obtain the vaccine. That may not happen for the next year or maybe more but when it does happen, I will no longer wear a mask anywhere to protect anti-vaxers.

[lizzius]

15 minutes ago, easyqueasy said:

So you might be protected by not having to go to the hospital and yet might be asymptomatic and pass on to others whether on the ship or elsewhere. And possibly kill others by doing so as I’ve read on this board, but that’s ok I guess as long as the vaccinated people can cruise? I am seriously curious how long the vaccinated people are staying home until and how long the vaccinated people that put down people that are not vaccinated staying home until everyone has a chance to vaccinate so as to not pass it along.

The answer would make you angry. I have coworkers who are having "vaccinated-only" dinner parties because they found a dubious way to get their shots and think it's ok to behave this way (my coworkers are absolutely not essential by any reasonable definition, and only one has a health condition and also happens to meet my state's current age requirement).

 

Even beyond that, if you do qualify for a vaccine in your state, it's largely because everyone that isn't also currently eligible for a vaccine has had to make enormous sacrifices to get us to this point. The fact that people think it's ok to go out and celebrate and don't understand that they're essentially rubbing the noses of everyone younger than a boomer in their well... bull... is infuriating.

Edited January 30, 2021 by lizzius

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, cruiseguy1016 said:

 

Don't hold your breath.

I feel sorry for the anti-vaxers. Their lives will never go back to normal. Wait and see.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, lizzius said:

Of all of the absurdities I've read in this thread lately, this takes the cake. You acknowledge hospitalization is the most important metric and then follow up with this.

 

Aside from that, two big problems with this: we don't know what the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is against the new variants because they finished up their trial well before those variants showed up in places where they were performing their trial. They've unblinded their placebo arms and are vaccinating everyone (I'm amongst them, thank God). It could be that the J&J vaccine is every bit as good as the mRNA vaccines against the SA variant. Second, if you think you can get the mRNA vaccines into every arm a cruise ship would need to operate (let alone the ports a ship may want to visit) then you really haven't been paying attention to the cold chain issues with them or the fact that they have a relatively limited manufacturing base compared to the alternatives.

I have heard very positive news about how the mRNA vaccines are performing against the new variants. So far, the variants do not seem to pose a threat to those who are vaccinated with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

 

Sorry, but for me, the J&J vaccine has not proved enough efficacy. I did read somewhere along the line that J&J is looking at a booster shot to bring up the efficacy. Then and only then would I consider the J&J vaccine a viable option to cruise.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, TheMastodon said:

Yeah can’t imagine why anyone would want a vaccine for a virus that most people don’t even know they have.

Please, don't go there.

[cured]

12 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I feel sorry for the anti-vaxers. Their lives will never go back to normal. Wait and see.

Even before Covid, our local school district was putting into effect stricter vaccination rules. They completely eliminated the religious and personal exemptions. For that population, they established an online school where, if you could not provide proof of vaccination, particularly measles, you would need to attend the online school.  Your child would still be receiving a free appropriate public education, so it was and still is an acceptable accommodation and well within FAPE rules.  The district is continuing to expand the online school so I have no doubt that once the vaccination is available to students, starting with high school, that it will be mandated to have the vaccine for in person school. Everyone is free to choose whether they want the vaccine or not, but if you choose not then you also choose on line schooling.

Edited January 30, 2021 by cured

[lizzius]

4 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I have heard very positive news about how the mRNA vaccines are performing against the new variants. So far, the variants do not seem to pose a threat to those who are vaccinated with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

 

Sorry, but for me, the J&J vaccine has not proved enough efficacy. I did read somewhere along the line that J&J is looking at a booster shot to bring up the efficacy. Then and only then would I consider the J&J vaccine a viable option to cruise.

You haven't read anything about the mRNA vaccines and their performance in humans with regards to the new variants because there is no data... You've read the results of studies in petri dishes, because that's all they can do right now. The fact that both Moderna and Pfizer are formulating boosters against the SA variant should tell you something.

 

We should all be glad you don't set the bar for vaccinations, or the world at large would never have an opportunity to be in your esteemed company again. On second thought...

Edited January 30, 2021 by lizzius

[coffeebean]

56 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So.  Let's say 1000 people get on the cruise ship.  They've all been vaccinated.  However, 50 people, although vaccinated, still get sick.  So they can still spread it among themselves, right?  Tough luck to them?  And you won't know if you're part of that 50 or not.  

With those high efficacy rates, I am very willing to take that slim chance of contracting the virus. At least I won't end up hospitalized. The symptoms are very minimal and may be no symptoms at all. Having said that, what I am still not sure of,  is will there lasting effects of the virus such as neurological? There is evidence now that even asymptomatic people have been shown to have lasting effects of the virus.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, TheMastodon said:

Yeah can’t imagine why anyone would want a vaccine for a virus that most people don’t even know they have.

 

Very definition of myopia.

 

I suspect the 2.2 million dead would of liked the option. How about the millions more spending or having spent weeks in hospital, do you think they might like, have liked a vaccine? You don't suppose hundreds of millions high risk people would like a vaccine?

[coffeebean]

58 minutes ago, easyqueasy said:

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/
 

Depends on how you look at it. 

I have seen this article and actively discussed the findings on another forum. Basically, these patients that died were extremely frail and even a fever was enough to do them in. They were on death's door with one foot in the grave. Vaccine related? Maybe but they should not have been vaccinated to begin with if they were so frail. I do not believe their age group and frailty was included in either the Pfizer or Moderna trials; just like children were not included in the initial trials.

[coffeebean]

48 minutes ago, easyqueasy said:

So you might be protected by not having to go to the hospital and yet might be asymptomatic and pass on to others whether on the ship or elsewhere. And possibly kill others by doing so as I’ve read on this board, but that’s ok I guess as long as the vaccinated people can cruise? I am seriously curious how long the vaccinated people are staying home until and how long the vaccinated people that put down people that are not vaccinated staying home until everyone has a chance to vaccinate so as to not pass it along.

What you are suggesting here is we, as a population on this great earth, will NEVER be able to ditch the masks and must always social distance. NOT going to happen.

[coffeebean]

22 minutes ago, lizzius said:

You haven't read anything about the mRNA vaccines and their performance in humans with regards to the new variants because there is no data... You've read the results of studies in petri dishes, because that's all they can do right now. The fact that both Moderna and Pfizer are formulating boosters against the SA variant should tell you something.

 

We should all be glad you don't set the bar for vaccinations, or the world at large would never have an opportunity to be in your esteemed company again. On second thought...

I'll take what ever data they've got. Still looks good to me!

[MaritimeR&R]

32 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I feel sorry for the anti-vaxers. Their lives will never go back to normal. Wait and see.

As someone who has dealt with both the short and the long-term consequences of contracting a respiratory disease at age 12 that nearly killed me, I would advise anyone who can safely receive the vaccine to do so as soon as they are eligible.  The Pertussis vaccine was not routinely offered when I was a girl. Making sure you lined up for polio cubes was what everyone worried about.  

 

[chengkp75]

According to CLIA, about 15 million US passengers took a cruise in 2019.  Now, making an assumption that none of these passengers are repeat customers (just to help the OP's position as much as possible), that means that about 5% of the US population takes cruises.  So, of the 6.5% of the population that is vaccinated, that means that about 0.3% of those vaccinated are cruisers.  

[easyqueasy]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

What you are suggesting here is we, as a population on this great earth, will NEVER be able to ditch the masks and must always social distance. NOT going to happen.

Not what I’m saying at all. I did not suggest anything and what you’re saying (not the “Not going to happen” part) is the exact opposite of what I would like to happen. Obviously we’re peons and don’t make the rules, but I don’t look down on others either.  On the plus side, my posts count went up, though it might be higher if some posts didn’t get deleted. I wish it was this easy to earn Crown and Anchor points. 

[legaljen1969]

On 1/28/2021 at 6:33 PM, PCHENG said:

Just my two cents, but I think the cruise line should mandate that all adults both passenger and crew get vaccinated.  Anyone eligible for a vaccine should get it as it provides the highest degree of protection.

 

As for children which has no approved vaccine yet or people who for one reason or another can't take the vaccine (such as people with severe allergies), get proof of negative Covid test within 72 hours of cruise like they do for international flights, maybe even conduct a second rapid test when checking in at port.

 

Do that, and you can safely assume that almost everyone on board are either protected or virus free.  It is obviously not a 100 percent fail safe guarantee, but as close as it gets.  Couple with lots of infrared temperature sensors, mandatory mask wearing when outside your room and social distancing, and hopefully we can have a relatively safe cruise.  There may still be sporadic instances of Covid on board but the important thing is to avoid a super-spreader Covid outbreak.

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

[legaljen1969]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

However, both vaccines are 100% guaranteed not to put anyone in the hospital if they do contract Covid. That is pretty good odds to me.

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

The problem is the current vaccines provide NO protection.  It doesn't protect you from getting COVID. It doesn't prevent you from spreading the vaccine. It just makes your symptoms a little less severe. That is all they will say for now.  

So having the majority of people OR everyone on the ship having a vaccine will do NOTHING to prevent a super-spreader situation. 

 

Both of your statements are filled with inaccuracies. 
 

There are no vaccines that prevent 100% of illnesses that they are designed for. 
 

Having everyone on a ship vaccinated would guarantee a “super spreader” event would.not occur.  The viral load in a vaccinated Covid positive individual would be statistically insignificant to the immune system of a

covid negative vaccinated individual. THIS is the very definition of herd immunity.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

Really???  100% guaranteed you won't have to go the hospital if you get COVID after having the vaccine?   The first failure, I hope that person sues the ever loving snot out of the vaccine provider AND the vaccine manufacturer.     No-one alive in going to believe you can 100% NOT go to the hospital from this. Anyone putting out that set of odds is incredibly  foolish or overconfident. 

Now maybe if there was 100% guarantee you won't get COVID after you get the vaccine?   That would make sense for people to get vaccinated THEN.  

 

Actually the data submitted thus far supports the claim of no hospitalizations. 

In all the vaccine cohorts submitted to FDA; the vaccine group had zero hospitalizations

for Covid, the placebo groups all did have hospitalizations. 

[legaljen1969]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Actually the data submitted thus far supports the claim of no hospitalizations. 

In all the vaccine cohorts submitted to FDA; the vaccine group had zero hospitalizations

for Covid, the placebo groups all did have hospitalizations. 

It just worries me right now because "the science" changes every day.  The data changes every day.   It is sad because right now, I am being told by doctor NOT to get the vaccine- to stay as far at the back of the line as possible.  So if I am not permitted to get the vaccine, I will probably never be permitted to travel anywhere again. If I can't get on a cruise ship without it, can't go to a theme park without it, can't fly without it, can't go to restaurants or hotels or public places without it- I guess I am homebound for life now.  I never thought my life would be over at 50.    No wonder the suicide rate in the US is skyrocketing. 

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

It just worries me right now because "the science" changes every day.  The data changes every day.   It is sad because right now, I am being told by doctor NOT to get the vaccine- to stay as far at the back of the line as possible.  So if I am not permitted to get the vaccine, I will probably never be permitted to travel anywhere again. If I can't get on a cruise ship without it, can't go to a theme park without it, can't fly without it, can't go to restaurants or hotels or public places without it- I guess I am homebound for life now.  I never thought my life would be over at 50.    No wonder the suicide rate in the US is skyrocketing. 

I wouldn’t say the science changes every day, data sets do grow, but the message has been fairly consistent. 
 

I would never contradict your physician, I have no idea of what aspect of your health has caused him to give this advise. 
 

Without significant co morbidities, at your age you aren’t eligible for the vaccine yet anyway, so you have e time to think about it. 
 

good luck