Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 hour ago, exm said:

 

Listen, I agree it's out of control for all of us. There might never be a vaccine for children younger than 12. Does that mean no kids on cruises? That too will be the end of a lot of cruise lines.

 

To me the key is this: get as many people vaccinated as possible, come up with a plan in case someone gets tested positive on-board and let's resume life. If someone has a health condition, get the shot.

 

It's unreal that most of the people under 50 have to endure lockdowns and disruption of life with a mortality rate that's probably lower than the average flu at this point. I'm not seriously advocating to ban older people (I'm pushing 50 myself), but at a certain point it comes down to personal responsibility if a vaccine is available.

 

Unfortunately the government (CDC) feels that they need to 'control' everything.

 

Vegas does fine w/o kids. And I do believe cruise lines can adjust and survive w/o kids under vaccinating age.  But banning the over 50 crowd, they may as well file bankruptcy now and be done with it. As with any business, follow the money.  

[firefly333]

38 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

How quickly some forget. I take it you have forgotten about norovirus?

 

I do wish some people would examine facts rather than let dogma dictate thoughts. Just because an agency acts in a way one dislikes does not mean it is drunk on power. 

Because someone doesn't agree with you you make assumptions about them. We all know how wrong people who make snap assumptions usually are. I dont have to agree about the past actions cdc took. Make you a deal I wouldnt make sweeping generalizations about your knowledge if you are respectful.  

 

Moving on cruises were mentioned. Miami heat is using dogs to scan the lines entering the stadium in groups. If the dog sits down next to someone indicating they have covid, they are refunded and sent home. They following with a sentence cruises are looking at dogs who can smell covid.

[smokeybandit]

Vegas wasn't build as a place for family vacations. Cruising was.

 

You'll  be seeing all major cruise lines selling ships if they suddenly deem kids not worthy.

[lovescats5]

So you want to ban kids from cruising until they are old enough to get a vaccine.  Maybe the vaccine will be a think of the past when my 13 yo granddaughter gets to be vaccinating age.  You want to cruise without kids go on Princess or Holland.  First the over 70 crowd was suppose to be banned because they were old and now the under 16 or 18 should just give up something they love.  Maybe I will file a law suit if my granddaughter is banned.  I know, let the under 18 and 70+ go and all you other people can stay home.  Yea, I am irritated and no I don't care if you get upset at me.  

[not-enough-cruising]

22 minutes ago, lovescats5 said:

So you want to ban kids from cruising until they are old enough to get a vaccine.  Maybe the vaccine will be a think of the past when my 13 yo granddaughter gets to be vaccinating age.  You want to cruise without kids go on Princess or Holland.  First the over 70 crowd was suppose to be banned because they were old and now the under 16 or 18 should just give up something they love.  Maybe I will file a law suit if my granddaughter is banned.  I know, let the under 18 and 70+ go and all you other people can stay home.  Yea, I am irritated and no I don't care if you get upset at me.  

Dr Fauci announced today that by using “age de-escalation testing” he expects children to begin getting vaccinated by late spring. 

[ATG]

One interesting thing I read about the J&J vaccine was that getting it now would not preclude you from getting the other vaccine at some time in the future when it was more readily available.  The idea being that the J&J would greatly decrease severe COVID issues until more of the others were available.  I know that much of what I read on the internet is trash, but I wonder if this is viable.

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, exm said:

 

Let me turn this around. Ban everyone age 50 and older on cruises due to the increased mortality rate: the age-specific infection fatality rate is extremely low among children and young adults, measuring 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at 25. However, the rate progressively increased with age, growing from 0.4% at 55 to around 15% at 85.

 

Don't like that? I don't like it either that as parents I can't cruise since my kids can't get vaccinated (I will get my shot when I'm eligible).

 

So the solution I think will be:

- The entire crew will be vaccinated

- To board a ship you either need to be vaccinated or comply to a specific (TBD) testing schedule

However, the ports of call are very much going to care about what non vaccinated kids bring onto their islands. They don't care if your kid isn't going to die from the virus. The problem is the people the kids come in contact with. I suspect a vaccinated 60 year old will be more welcomed than a non vaccinated 10 year old. Further more, when kids do have complications with the virus they can be disastrous. I would rather my unvaccinated kid be in the U.S. rather than in a ship or a Caribbean island. 

[lizzius]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

However, the ports of call are very much going to care about what non vaccinated kids bring onto their islands. They don't care if your kid isn't going to die from the virus. The problem is the people the kids come in contact with. I suspect a vaccinated 60 year old will be more welcomed than a non vaccinated 10 year old. Further more, when kids do have complications with the virus they can be disastrous. I would rather my unvaccinated kid be in the U.S. rather than in a ship or a Caribbean island. 

Vaccinated people who are even mildly symptomatic will almost certainly still spread disease. 

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

You hit the nail on the head here. 

You Canadians all stick together.☺

[karl_nj]

21 hours ago, Heymarco said:

From someone way down the list to get vaccinated, I would be ok of cruising started tomorrow even if I couldn’t qualify for lack of vaccine. We have to get away from this equally poor mentality. Life just isn’t fair sometimes. Why shouldn’t Royal be given a chance to survive as a firm and employ hundreds of thousands in the process? Vaccine is here, it makes no sense to wait any longer. 

 

Well, the majority of the crew also likely won't qualify for the vaccine.  Will these vaccinated passengers take turns washing the dishes and cleaning cabins on this hypothetical sailing?

 

[Ocean Boy]

15 minutes ago, lizzius said:

Vaccinated people who are even mildly symptomatic will almost certainly still spread disease. 

Testing is readily available. If someone is symptomatic before the start of the cruise they shouldn't board. If someone developes symptoms on the ship they should be quarentined. If everyone on the ship is vaccinated there should not be an outbreak. That mildly symptomatic person would be more if an issue in a non vaccinated community.

[Baron Barracuda]

55 minutes ago, ATG said:

One interesting thing I read about the J&J vaccine was that getting it now would not preclude you from getting the other vaccine at some time in the future when it was more readily available.  The idea being that the J&J would greatly decrease severe COVID issues until more of the others were available.  I know that much of what I read on the internet is trash, but I wonder if this is viable.

All the vaccine companies are working on modifications and boosters to deal with virus mutations.  Moderna CEO for instance hopes to have booster against S. Africa strain available by fall.  In the meantime current vaccines offer at least partial protection.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Vegas wasn't build as a place for family vacations. Cruising was.

 

You'll  be seeing all major cruise lines selling ships if they suddenly deem kids not worthy.

 

Naw.. that would be a very rash and ill advised decision to sell ships based on the current supply of vaccines. But faced w/ closing their business or following the money, they'll follow the money.  Like I said, I'd love to cruise w/ the grandkids, but I'll do it without them in a heartbeat. And I do want my grandson vaxed so he can enjoy not only cruising but many, many other things as well. The lines of the water slides & bumper cars will be absent but eventually a vaccine will be developed for kids. But until then, get vaxed, go cruising. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Goodtime Cruizin

[smokeybandit]

Following the money when over 50%+ of your passenger base will have someone in the travel party that either won't be vaccinated or doesn't want to be vaccinated is not at all a good way to preserve business. It'll be tough to get many of those people back.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 hour ago, lovescats5 said:

So you want to ban kids from cruising until they are old enough to get a vaccine.  Maybe the vaccine will be a think of the past when my 13 yo granddaughter gets to be vaccinating age.  You want to cruise without kids go on Princess or Holland.  First the over 70 crowd was suppose to be banned because they were old and now the under 16 or 18 should just give up something they love.  Maybe I will file a law suit if my granddaughter is banned.  I know, let the under 18 and 70+ go and all you other people can stay home.  Yea, I am irritated and no I don't care if you get upset at me.  

 

So get a lawyer and get ready. It's silly to think that you, me, or anyone can sue a company because of company policies. All the policy has to say is, Vaccinations required. They don't have to place age limits on the customer. If you can't get a vax for your kid or I can't get one for me, that's not the cruiselines fault. 

[smokeybandit]

I have no doubt there will be a class action lawsuit against RC if they make vaccinations mandatory.

[Casino Comp Chick]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:40 PM, Suncoastsailors said:

Today 6.5 % of the nation is vaccinated. If cruise lines would mandate the vaccine for crew and passengers and give a realistic start date. Those who want to cruise can focus on getting the vaccine. Let the ports of call know that all crew and passengers will be vaccinated. This seems like the answer to cruises returning. Testing can be relaxed, ship precautions can be reduced. Even if someone gets the virus onboard it won't spread to other passengers or crew. Those who don't want the vaccine can cancel, but those still booked on cruise ships want to cruise.

I still haven’t had my 2nd Moderna shot yet but there is already a new version flying around Europe and now 1/2 the states in the US. The makers of the vaccine still do not know if the vaccine will protect from this new version. Sadly It will be a while.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Casino Comp Chick

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Following the money when over 50%+ of your passenger base will have someone in the travel party that either won't be vaccinated or doesn't want to be vaccinated is not at all a good way to preserve business. It'll be tough to get many of those people back.

There is a great big world beyond cruising. Depending on what the rest of that world does with vaccination requirements, the more we learn about the vaccines over time, and what the virus does over time could make future vaccine refusal much less of an issue. Short term, I suspect a 100% vaccination requirement will do much more to attract the money than an unvaccinated, masked up, distanced, and highly restricted cruise environment.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Following the money when over 50%+ of your passenger base will have someone in the travel party that either won't be vaccinated or doesn't want to be vaccinated is not at all a good way to preserve business. It'll be tough to get many of those people back.

 

Well they have choices. We all do. No one is saying they must get a vaccine to go through life. What is probably going to be said is,  "our cruise ship passengers must be vaciinated.'  

 

And if I'm faced with some customers vs no customers, I choose the some customers category.  

[UnorigionalName]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I have no doubt there will be a class action lawsuit against RC if they make vaccinations mandatory.

 

based on what?  vaccination status is not a protected class.

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I have no doubt there will be a class action lawsuit against RC if they make vaccinations mandatory.

That doesn't mean it will go anywhere.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I have no doubt there will be a class action lawsuit against RC if they make vaccinations mandatory.

 

I have no doubt either. I do have doubt though if they'd win. 

[smokeybandit]

Just now, UnorigionalName said:

 

based on what?  vaccination status is not a protected class.

 

Disabilities preventing someone from getting the vaccine is.

Plus it has nothing to do with a disability that would give the lawsuit standing. 

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Disabilities preventing someone from getting the vaccine is.

Plus it has nothing to do with a disability that would give the lawsuit standing. 

If you haven't learned yet that public health issues trump individual rights I don't know what to say. The examples are all around us.

[smokeybandit]

RC is not a public health agency.