Mandate the vaccine and establish a realistic start date

[coffeebean]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:06 PM, Ellaleah said:

I do not believe that being vaccinated will be an option.  Cruise lines will not take the risk.  People with vaccinations will still have a degree of vulnerability.

Vulnerable for 5 or 6% risk of catching the virus but no severe disease. The vaccines offer 100% protection against needing hospitalization. I think that is good enough to cruise.

 

J&J vaccine efficacy is not high enough for me to feel protected enough to cruise. I hope cruise lines will not accept vaccination with the J&J vaccine as eligibility to board.

[A&L_Ont]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

So come up with a viable plan. I don't know how anyone can look at the Diamond Princess and then have any interest in getting on a non-vaccinated ship.

 

I would like to ask how stupid can people be. However, unfortunately I know the answer to the question.

 

I am with you 100%. 
 

Here is a link to a Canadian Documentary which follows the stories of a just a few people who were on, and worked on the Diamond Princess Princess during it’s outbreak. It’s around 40 minutes long and should confirm that anyone boarding a ship would want all guests to be vaccinated for at least the immediate future. Even if I was vaccinated I sure would not want be stuck on a ship under those circumstances, while others are not vaccinated.  
 

Imagine how fast it would spread with the new variants.

They did use a lot of B Roll film from other ships in the documentary, but only frequent cruisers would spot that fact. 

 

direct link:
https://youtu.be/omj3MpAcHIs

 

imbedded link. 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[dani negreanu]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

Considering that we are all now in the middle of the largest clinical drug trial in history (more than 30 million participants and counting in the U.S. alone), with virtually no statistically significant adverse reactions, the FDA could easily make the decision to formally approve either or both vaccines by this spring.

 

You can safely add Israel to "the largest clinical drug trial in history". Quickest roll out in the world.

 

3.000.000 received their 1st dose, 1.600.000 the second one. No side effects, "nothing to write home about".

Israel is cooperating with Pfizer, relaying data related to side effects, age, gender and other statistical analyses in what could be termed as "post approval" clinical trials.

 

Win-Win.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by dani negreanu
updated data

[orville99]

1 minute ago, dani negreanu said:

 

You can safely add Israel to "the largest clinical drug trial in history". Quickest roll out in the world.

 

2.600.000 received their 1st dose, 1.600.000 the second one. No side effects, "nothing to write home about".

Israel is cooperating with Pfizer, relaying data related to side effects, age, gender and other statistical analyses in what could be termed as "post approval" clinical trials.

 

Win-Win.

 

And other countries as well. One thing that I believe will shorten the ultimate approval process is the "V-Safe" tracking system created by the CDC and locally linked through your county Health Department. You just text any symptoms or reactions to V-Safe, and the info goes both to your local Health Department and the CDC.

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

So come up with a viable plan. I don't know how anyone can look at the Diamond Princess and then have any interest in getting on a non-vaccinated ship.

 

I would like to ask how stupid can people be. However, unfortunately I know the answer to the question.

You replied to me as if I am saying don't required vaccinations when I said the card I got wouldnt be secure. The 2 dont equate to the same thing. I just think it's something else that has to be worked out. I'm on the fence regarding requiring kids to have it or not since it's not even possible for them to get it.

 

It does seem like cruising is getting harder and harder to think of getting going agin. We have gone from ok just need a vaccine to realizing all the steps after its here now. Some kind of national data base most likely, idk. But then you get into what you said ...need a doctor or his office to input it into the system later on, and another doctors visit. 

[kirtihk]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:06 PM, karena1 said:

I laugh that everyone thinks this vaccine is the end all to be all.  Just like the flu shot!!!.  There are so many variations of this virus, just b/c you get it, does not mean you  will be protected, anymore than you are protected with the flu shot.  I will get the vaccine (even though I am totally against it) ONLY because I want to cruise again.  We have been traveling all over since June and neither one of us have had any issues at all.  In fact - until we go in March, when the stupid CDC has mandated we get a test to come back to the states, we have not even had a COVID test.  This will be the first for us.  But willing to put up with the CDC BS so we can continue to travel.  Just like we will put up with the requirement to get the Vaccine even though I don't think it will do anything more than a flu shot (which I have never had).  Unfortunately, we live in a stupid world right now, and the CDC wants to control everything.  So whether I like it or not, I will do what they mandate. We refuse to sit at home in a bubble and die.  We want to live, so will do what we have to so we can continue to travel.  I know I will get blasted because we don't live in fear, but I simply don't care anymore. I am totally over all this BS.  Get the country open and let people live again. My mother almost died last weekend of a stroke.  Thankfully, she will be fine.  But life is short - LIVE IT!

 

 

 

Finally, I “hear” a common sense voice! I am in disbelieve of the mad world created within just 11 months around us. I thought after spending the first half of my life (31 years) in the country practicing the same “values” as globally evolving now, I will be free of hypocrisy and pushed tyranny... I was wrong. Oh, well, the world does not learn from past mistakes. The only positive thinking is “Everything passes, and this madness will pass, too”. 

[kirtihk]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:29 PM, maggieq said:

I applaud you Karena1.   We were going to take our rescheduled trip to Aruba in the spring and now you have to test before traveling and before boarding a flight home to the USA.  I cannot take the chance of a false positive so back to the drawing board on travel choices.  

We booked and cancelled Aruba, cruises, and other vacations 8-12 time since last April (I cannot even count anymore). The best memory is from our 16- night last South Pacific Eastern Island to Tahiti cruise on Ponant cruise line on March 8, 2020. We “stuck” on the ship, but that is the only good matter vacation wise left in our heart.

[kirtihk]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:03 AM, ace2542 said:

The CDC wants to destroy the industry because they don't like how illness spreads onboard. And their practice of saving ships in distress in the ocean that could be anybody lets just leave it at that on a public forum shall we. 

 

Cruising will NEVER return to the way it used be in December 2018 long before we heard of the term Covid 19. Masks will be worn on cruise ships to contain this forever more even when not worn on land. Self service buffets will never be on cruise ships again but on land. Mark my words.

The cruise with the masquerade?! That is not a cruise. What the point of such cruising? Is not the purpose of the cruise to be exposed to the fresh ocean water breeze vs a piece of cloth with a lack of oxygen? What a “nice vacation” that would be!

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

True, they were not everywhere, however, smallpox was and it is now eradicated.  Cholera and the bubonic plague were pandemics as well and they don't exist anymore. 

All without the modern technology that we have today to develop vaccines. 

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, time4u2go said:

How long might it take to become officially approved? Might that not happen before cruising resumes?

So far, there has been not one reported death directly attributed to either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. That looks pretty good to get the official approval for these vaccines. With the high efficacy rates and the minimal side effects, I'm hoping more and more anti-vaxxers will get on board with vaccination.

[cruiseguy1016]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

So far, there has been not one reported death directly attributed to either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. That looks pretty good to get the official approval for these vaccines. With the high efficacy rates and the minimal side effects, I'm hoping more and more anti-vaxxers will get on board with vaccination.

 

Don't hold your breath.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, cruiseguy1016 said:

 

My guess is the form showing that you had the vaccine is different in every state/county. My wife and I have both been vaccinated in the same county but at different locations. Our documentation papers are different. She has the date hand written with a sticker for the lot number. On mine, the dates and lot numbers are both just written by hand.  Anyone can make a fake form and write any dates and lot number they want. The cruise lines will not take the time and effort to verify the authenticity of every form.

Going forward, would it be possible for the Federal Government to use smart phones for a bar code that has all the information of a person's vaccination, including picture ID? If someone doesn't have a smart phone, an email can contain the same barcode with the information such as name, DOB, Vaccination date, name of the vaccine, Lot# of the vaccine batch, and address and phone number and picture ID.

 

That way, forging fake paperwork will not be an issue. The bar codes must come from a valid government site. I understand this is probably not possible now with just trying to vaccinate our population but going forward, this is something that should be looked into by our government.

 

Don't have a smart phone? Get one if you want to travel in the future and partake in going to theme parks and all sorts of things we used to do before this damn virus hit us like a ton of bricks.

Edited January 30, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, Suncoastsailors said:

I am not purposing cruise line MANDATE you to have the vaccine. Only they they require vaccination to join the cruise. Possible exceptions could be made small children. If you set a date say July 1st or Aug 1st 2021. Everyone has time to prepare. Cruise lines could seek government approval. Staff could be vaccinated, protocols put in place and those who want to cruise can get in line for the vaccine. They are allowing vaccinated local nursing staff to attend the Super Bowl. Approved or emergency use is not the issue. Set a sail date based on data. Presently 1.2 million vaccines per day given. Those who disagree can wait until the rules change.  

I see this as a very easy process. You get vaccinated, you CAN cruise. You do not get vaccinated, you CAN NOT cruise. Those who can not be vaccinated because of health issues will just have to find another type of vacation such as a land vacation where vaccination is not mandated. It is as easy as that.

Edited January 30, 2021 by coffeebean

[broberts]

7 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

We don't hear about SARS, MERS, EBOLA, H1N1, ZIKA, etc. anymore so it appears to be possible. 

 

Those truly interested in world news do hear about outbreaks https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.who.int/news/item/01-06-2020-new-ebola-outbreak-detected-in-northwest-democratic-republic-of-the-congo-who-surge-team-supporting-the-response&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjRwvWsr8TuAhX2TTABHS5qCAgQFjAcegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw08r29uYwX3MSNJP6ccFP45

 

While the mass media may ignore such stories, it doesn't mean outbreaks don't happen.

 

6 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

True, they were not everywhere, however, smallpox was and it is now eradicated.  Cholera and the bubonic plague were pandemics as well and they don't exist anymore. 

 

Smallpox is considered eradicated. But while not epidemic Cholera is still with us, https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cholera as is the plague, https://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/index.html

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Then I guess we better just shut everything down and keep it that way because the world is full of lying, cheating, untrustworthy humans.🙄

 

I wouldn't lie to get on a cruise ship. It is hardly even close to important enough to me to risk my integrity.

But.......there are people who would lie.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, molly361 said:

Check out my Ebay site.  I will be having these for sale shortly 😇

This is why there needs to be a government data base with the bar code I discussed in a previous post. There must be a way to eliminate this forgery.

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Those truly interested in world news do hear about outbreaks https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.who.int/news/item/01-06-2020-new-ebola-outbreak-detected-in-northwest-democratic-republic-of-the-congo-who-surge-team-supporting-the-response&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjRwvWsr8TuAhX2TTABHS5qCAgQFjAcegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw08r29uYwX3MSNJP6ccFP45

 

While the mass media may ignore such stories, it doesn't mean outbreaks don't happen.

 

 

Smallpox is considered eradicated. But while not epidemic Cholera is still with us, https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cholera as is the plague, https://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/index.html

 

Yes but not to the extent that this pandemic has spread.  There may be small pockets in certain areas but not as widespread. 

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, Sail n Snow said:

It’s on its way. It will just take time for it to be adopted...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/14/microsoft-salesforce-and-oracle-working-on-covid-vaccination-passport.html

I wasn't too far off in what I proposed. I'm glad to see this is in the works. Paper records are antiquated and easily forged.

 

You don't have proof of vaccination???? You don't cruise, travel on public transportation, go to theme parks, go to sporting events, the list goes on and on. So sorry for you anti-vaxers who refuse to be vaccinated.

[lizzius]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

J&J vaccine efficacy is not high enough for me to feel protected enough to cruise. I hope cruise lines will not accept vaccination with the J&J vaccine as eligibility to board.

Of all of the absurdities I've read in this thread lately, this takes the cake. You acknowledge hospitalization is the most important metric and then follow up with this.

 

Aside from that, two big problems with this: we don't know what the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is against the new variants because they finished up their trial well before those variants showed up in places where they were performing their trial. They've unblinded their placebo arms and are vaccinating everyone (I'm amongst them, thank God). It could be that the J&J vaccine is every bit as good as the mRNA vaccines against the SA variant. Second, if you think you can get the mRNA vaccines into every arm a cruise ship would need to operate (let alone the ports a ship may want to visit) then you really haven't been paying attention to the cold chain issues with them or the fact that they have a relatively limited manufacturing base compared to the alternatives.

Edited January 30, 2021 by lizzius

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

Really?  Literally NO ONE was thinking "hey, cruise lines should just mandate everyone get a vaccine even if they're not planning on cruising".  That is utterly nonsensical.

 

But for a cruise line, or any private entity to require someone to do something that is in fact NOT approved is opening themselves up to potential liability that no underwrite would touch with a ten foot pole.  The problem would come up not in those who refused, but in those that got it and then could argue culpability on the part of the cruise line for any impact the immunization might have.  No entity, government, public or private is going to require something not approved.

We have to think in terms of "When the vaccines are approved". Things don't happen over night. I'm willing to wait (if I live that long. LOL)

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, molly361 said:

You have to subscribe to access your link.  No thanks

I don't subscribe and I was able to see the article. Hmmm.

[TheMastodon]

12 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I wasn't too far off in what I proposed. I'm glad to see this is in the works. Paper records are antiquated and easily forged.

 

You don't have proof of vaccination???? You don't cruise, travel on public transportation, go to theme parks, go to sporting events, the list goes on and on. So sorry for you anti-vaxers who refuse to be vaccinated.

Yeah can’t imagine why anyone would want a vaccine for a virus that most people don’t even know they have.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

This is a little bit of obfuscation on your part.  The NFL has opted to GIVE tickets to an event to front line workers.  They are not selling a product or conducting routine business.  The comparison would be if the NFL were requiring anyone attempting to buy a ticket and attend the event to first be vaccinated.  They are not, and they will not.

Hopefully, in the future, they WILL.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Here in the States for the last year there has been a war between the maskers and the anti maskers. Anti maskers were throwing around their constitutional rights. Business was able to mandate their own rules in terms of mandatory masks while in the establishment.

What a joke! I'd like to see an anti-masker walk into any public place without clothes on. They would be arrested so fast your head would spin. Where are their constitutional rights with that? LOL!!!

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, llawrence said:

There are still many problems CDC is looking at...I have a friend that tested positive for covid after both doses.....she has no symptoms....went in for hand surgery and ended up at home in 7 day isolation....even if everyone on the ship was vaccinated and one person tested positive.....would that be as big of deal as it was a year ago?  I understand a congressman just tested positive after both doses. May not be that uncommon.  

 

Don't even try to get on a ship unless the passenger has passed the 4 week period after the second shot. Immunity is not achieved until then. Anyone could  contract the virus until immunity is achieved.

 

Immunity is not 100% guaranteed anyway......it is 94% for Moderna and 95% for Pfizer vaccine here in the US. However, both vaccines are 100% guaranteed not to put anyone in the hospital if they do contract Covid. That is pretty good odds to me.