Question on proof of Covid shot

[Hangman115]

I live in the uS. We have laws about HEPPA. Medical privacy laws in the uS.

I see on eBay there are sellers offering a so called proof of vaccaine shot. Some I see are listed as being from (WHO). The World Health Orginization.

Any idea on what proof the cruise ships might need that says i took the shot or shots in the US?  And if you present a card at the port, how will the cruise line verify the card is valid. Will the cruise lines or those at the port. Will they have access to my private health records. Records that by law only my doctors and I should have access too.  I am seeing doctors now and for them to share things, I have to sign a waiver and name who can have access to my records includinf medicine and shots.

So my question is. What kind of PROOF will the cruise line accept that says I have had yje shot? We know, with out personal computers, there will be some who can and will create some form or document that says we had the Covid shot.  So I wonder. What type of proof will the cruise lines accept as "valid"?

[woldridge]

To my knowledge all COVID injections given in the US are in a data base, primarily for statistical use, to send reminders of need for second injections and to monitor adverse reactions. With the passengers permission (to meet HIPPA requirements which could be written into a cruise contract), this information could be checked before the passenger boards a ship, much like we are all checked for security safety (terrorism).  Or, possibly this information could be attached to one's passport so that when it is swiped it shows that COVID injection(s) criteria has been met.

 

I don't see them using the paper card we were given at the time of the injections, but I am sure if they are required someone will figure out how to profit from it!

[Markanddonna]

The rollout doesn't seem to be generating a reliable data base of people who have received the vaccine. Too bad. That piece of paper could so easily be forged!

 

[TinCan782]

My only proof of vaccination is the "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card (CDC) given to me at the time of vaccination. As far as validating it ...I don't know.

Looks pretty easy to counterfeit.

 

EBay sellers selling proof of vaccination card...I wouldn't touch that!

This is what my card looks like...

Edited February 6, 2021 by TinCan782

[Roz]

I would think it would be possible for cruise lines, airlines, etc. to access a national Covid vaccination database without accessing your private health records.  I could wrong about this, but most people aren't getting their Covid vaccinations thru their private physicians.  

[njhorseman]

It's quite possible you're going to see an electronic COVID vaccination "passport" :

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/travel/coronavirus-vaccine-passports.html

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/16/tech/coronavirus-vaccine-records-microsoft-salesforce/index.html

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/europe-moves-toward-covid-19-vaccine-passports-but-not-every-country-is-on-board-11612532528

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by njhorseman

[Aquahound]

The COVID passport, if implemented, will be the way of verifying.  As stated, all shots are already being entered into a national database.

 

No way the card will be the sole form of acceptance.  I'm not even that computer savvy and I could easily replicate it.  

 

An interesting note about the card though, is that it was created on 09/03/20.  I'm not saying that means anything...just found it interesting.  

[paul929207]

49 minutes ago, TinCan782 said:

My only proof of vaccination is the "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card (CDC) given to me at the time of vaccination. As far as validating it ...I don't know.

Looks pretty easy to counterfeit.

 

EBay sellers selling proof of vaccination card...I wouldn't touch that!

This is what my card looks like...

We got the same card.

In the past, we have had an international card. It was yellow and commonly referred too as the Yellow Card. We needed it for a cruise that stopped at Devil's Island which is over run with yellow fever. We could not board the ship without the card since Brazil would not let us into their country without it.

[TinCan782]

29 minutes ago, paul929207 said:

We got the same card.

In the past, we have had an international card. It was yellow and commonly referred too as the Yellow Card. We needed it for a cruise that stopped at Devil's Island which is over run with yellow fever. We could not board the ship without the card since Brazil would not let us into their country without it.

Yea, I've got the yellow shot booklet also...from prior travel and my Navy days as well.

[cruisingguy007]

There will be no mandatory vaccine unless the government mandates it and implements/pays for the application, monitoring, and compliance issues that may arise from such a program, as well as provides some form of blanket immunity from any type of liability. 

 

The USA has virtually zero mandatory vaccine policies. Even the largest, pubic schools, has many opt out options for a variety of reasons. No private business or organization would implement such a program voluntarily when there has been no successful similar program to date (besides military).

 

Plenty of headlines demonstrate this:

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/05/about-half-of-the-santa-clara-county-sheriffs-employees-have-declined-vaccine/?fbclid=IwAR298_VpL1IbjsI3Y_njOb6gHsQIeOlVIDWtk-ktuw7o7BpThb0n6n05_wE

 

Mind you, some of these folks work with inmates in jailing, transportation and in court settings and have the potential to expose hundreds, yet are free to opt out and remain a potential infection point/spreader. Not to mention subject prisoners and other court staff/visitors to potential infection who may have no choice but to be exposed. 

 

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/survey-finds-15-of-us-healthcare-workers-refuse-to-take-covid-19-vaccine

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-numbers-of-health-care-and-frontline-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=34c168fc3c96

 

These are the same healthcare workers that you see for inoculations, check ups, technicians of all sorts, administrative front desk folks etc. All free to opt out and be a point of potential infection

and an active spreader; even in a healthcare setting. 

 

Why would a cruise line (or any private business) try and implement mandatory vaccines when no other government or major business has done so? It provides no benefit as there are not enough vaccines to make it viable, it opens you up to lawsuits, increases costs, and gives you a competitive disadvantage by eliminating customer base? There is zero incentive.

 

I very much doubt Carnival, or any private business for that matter, would try and take on an insurmountable task, that, when all is said and done, will be completely unnecessary once vaccines are widely available on demand; and essentially saddle themselves with another layer of self-imposed bureaucracy that increases cost, gives competitors an advantage, and that will be a nightmare to administer and ensure compliance?          

[Hlitner]

Not sure where folks get their information.  There is NO national data base of vaccinations.  Some (not all) States, such as California, do have a Statewide vaccine data base but its use if restricted.   Where it does get more interesting is that the major national pharmacy chains (i.e. CVS, Rite Aid, etc) do have their own data bases which are tied to certain insurance plans.  But access to these data bases is very restricted and that kind of information is protected under our HIPAA Law.  But many folks are getting vaccinated at various government run places and it is anyone's guess what kind of records (if any) will be kept by these various groups.  

 

We have all heard the talk about a so-called Vaccination Passport but we will have to wait and see how that plays out.  For now you have a bunch of different groups (i.e. some airlines, governments, private companies) all talking about a vaccine data base and/or Vaccine Passport but nothing is solid.  

 

I think travelers might be well advised to keep any information they are given at vaccine sites.  I would even consider printing out e-mails that verify appointments, cards or paperwork you are given at the vaccine site, etc.  At some point in the future you are likely to need proof of vaccination to get into certain countries and even fly on some airlines.

 

Hank

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 hour ago, TinCan782 said:

My only proof of vaccination is the "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card (CDC) given to me at the time of vaccination. As far as validating it ...I don't know.

Looks pretty easy to counterfeit.

 

EBay sellers selling proof of vaccination card...I wouldn't touch that!

This is what my card looks like...

Received the same card now with two dates/vaccinations fill in.  The WHO Carte Jaune (Yellow Card) is the globally accepted record of vaccinations.  I can recall the late 1940s/early 1950s when that was asked for first at border crossings.  Used it most recently for travel into Brazil, Argentina, Devil's Island and for entry into Tanzania and Kenya.  Has lost its panache in the US except when traveling to places requiring certification of MMR, tetanus and other prophylaxes.  Still the best way to certify COVID-19 inoculations.  We carry copies in wallets/purses.

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Not sure where folks get their information.  There is NO national data base of vaccinations.  Some (not all) States, such as California, do have a Statewide vaccine data base but its use if restricted.   Where it does get more interesting is that the major national pharmacy chains (i.e. CVS, Rite Aid, etc) do have their own data bases which are tied to certain insurance plans.  But access to these data bases is very restricted and that kind of information is protected under our HIPAA Law.  But many folks are getting vaccinated at various government run places and it is anyone's guess what kind of records (if any) will be kept by these various groups.  

 

We have all heard the talk about a so-called Vaccination Passport but we will have to wait and see how that plays out.  For now you have a bunch of different groups (i.e. some airlines, governments, private companies) all talking about a vaccine data base and/or Vaccine Passport but nothing is solid.  

 

I think travelers might be well advised to keep any information they are given at vaccine sites.  I would even consider printing out e-mails that verify appointments, cards or paperwork you are given at the vaccine site, etc.  At some point in the future you are likely to need proof of vaccination to get into certain countries and even fly on some airlines.

 

Hank

Qantas has already said the airline will require proof of vaccination when they become readily available.  Good policy.

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Received the same card now with two dates/vaccinations fill in.  The WHO Carte Jaune (Yellow Card) is the globally accepted record of vaccinations.  I can recall the late 1940s/early 1950s when that was asked for first at border crossings.  Used it most recently for travel into Brazil, Argentina, Devil's Island and for entry into Tanzania and Kenya.  Has lost its panache in the US except when traveling to places requiring certification of MMR, tetanus and other prophylaxes.  Still the best way to certify COVID-19 inoculations.  We carry copies in wallets/purses.

 

[neverbeenhere]

Two part questionnaire

 

We here at XXX cruise line ask you to answer honestly.

 

 

Do you feel sick today? 

 

Did you get one of the "Covid 19" vaccines?

 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Not sure where folks get their information.  There is NO national data base of vaccinations.  Some (not all) States, such as California, do have a Statewide vaccine data base but its use if restricted.   Where it does get more interesting is that the major national pharmacy chains (i.e. CVS, Rite Aid, etc) do have their own data bases which are tied to certain insurance plans.  But access to these data bases is very restricted and that kind of information is protected under our HIPAA Law.  But many folks are getting vaccinated at various government run places and it is anyone's guess what kind of records (if any) will be kept by these various groups.  

 

We have all heard the talk about a so-called Vaccination Passport but we will have to wait and see how that plays out.  For now you have a bunch of different groups (i.e. some airlines, governments, private companies) all talking about a vaccine data base and/or Vaccine Passport but nothing is solid.  

 

I think travelers might be well advised to keep any information they are given at vaccine sites.  I would even consider printing out e-mails that verify appointments, cards or paperwork you are given at the vaccine site, etc.  At some point in the future you are likely to need proof of vaccination to get into certain countries and even fly on some airlines.

 

Hank

I got my information from the CDC, which when setting out its guidelines a couple of months ago to prepare the states for the COVID vaccination process included detailed mandatory data that had to be captured for every person being vaccinated.

I can't verify whether this is the final version of the CDC playbook, but if you look at page 53 you'll see mention of the CDC-mandated data reporting. Appendix D, starting on page 63 provides the details of the data to be reported, which includes in the required data elements section recipient ID, address, date of birth, and name. 

 

So yes, if you received a COVID-19 vaccination the government knows it.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/downloads/COVID-19-Vaccination-Program-Interim_Playbook.pdf

Edited February 7, 2021 by njhorseman

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Not sure where folks get their information.  There is NO national data base of vaccinations. 

 

I received my shots on a USCG base.  The information we were provided stated that they were required to report our shots to the CDC.  

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Qantas has already said the airline will require proof of vaccination when they become readily available.  Good policy.

Yeah, we saw that.  Several European airlines are also talking about a similar policy although nothing is office.  But the question remains what proof will they accept.  And does it mean they will accept the J&J, China, Sputnik 5, Pfizer, Moderna....etc?  

 

Hank

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

There will be no mandatory vaccine unless the government mandates it and implements/pays for the application, monitoring, and compliance issues that may arise from such a program, as well as provides some form of blanket immunity from any type of liability. 

 

The USA has virtually zero mandatory vaccine policies. Even the largest, pubic schools, has many opt out options for a variety of reasons. No private business or organization would implement such a program voluntarily when there has been no successful similar program to date (besides military).

 

 

When I went to sea with the Merchant Navy, the company required mandatory vaccinations and the program was definitely successful.

 

We had a choice, get the vaccinations or find a different career. They didn't have any shortage of candidates.

[cruisingguy007]

4 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

When I went to sea with the Merchant Navy, the company required mandatory vaccinations and the program was definitely successful.

 

We had a choice, get the vaccinations or find a different career. They didn't have any shortage of candidates.

 

Cool story! 

[BoozinCroozin]

With the number of forged Covid tests already, taking a card as proof is not going to be an acceptable form. It is not like a passport or license that has some level of security. Vaccine cards are a slip of paper and like someone else posted, you can get them off eBay and other sites already. HIPPA laws will prevent verification unless the Gov changes the laws allowing cruise lines and others to access your medical records. It is going to be a dicey slope and something that will extend the start of cruising. 

[frantic36]

Interesting discussion re proof. Just watching on our Australian news discussing vaccine proof. We have Medicare here and they are saying our Covid vaccination will be recorded on that system which will cover all citizens and visa holders. They expect that vaccine proof will be necessary for many country borders. 

 

Australia is also looking to provide vaccines for places like Fiji, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands etc. We will mainly be using Astra Zeneca but we have the ability to make it here through a company called CSL.

 

From discussions I have had and seen most people here don't want to travel on long flights and on cruises unless everyone is vaccinated. 

[navybankerteacher]

13 hours ago, TinCan782 said:

Yea, I've got the yellow shot booklet also...from prior travel and my Navy days as well.

Same here - but surely as easy to counterfeit as anything else.. It seems clear that for there to be any sort of immunization requirement, some standardized protocol must be developed as part of the implementation of that requirement -- which almost certainly would have to be some sort of coded electronic data base.

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Same here - but surely as easy to counterfeit as anything else.. It seems clear that for there to be any sort of immunization requirement, some standardized protocol must be developed as part of the implementation of that requirement -- which almost certainly would have to be some sort of coded electronic data base.

Interesting, isn't it, how today almost the first thing we think of is "counterfeiting" a document designed to protect your life and save the lives of others.  Hopefully that will not be the case and countries can rely on the Carte Jaune and similar for verification.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Interesting, isn't it, how today almost the first thing we think of is "counterfeiting" a document designed to protect your life and save the lives of others.  Hopefully that will not be the case and countries can rely on the Carte Jaune and similar for verification.

Recent history shows that there is a significant portion of the US population who put their personal wishes above any sense of public responsibility.  Hoping that low-tech documentation will work is simply unrealistic.