With Canada now closed to cruises until 2022 is now the time to repeal Jones’ Law?

[chengkp75]

Ah, yes, "subject matter experts" that have no expertise in the maritime field.  And, again they focus solely on the cruise industry, blindered to the rest of the PVSA fleet.  And, they claim that if the PVSA were repealed "dozens of more cruises would depart from New York and Seattle" with no factual basis to this claim.  Where are these ships?  Where are the passengers?

 

Wow, he worked in the White House.

 

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, JRG said:

I'll tell you that we can ride our bikes down to the harbor from where we live. 

 

I got confused by your statement below and thought you lived outside the area.  Oceanside is a great town and while it is gentrifying rapidly, it still maintains some traditional character not present in other parts along the coast these days.  

 

4 hours ago, JRG said:

NBT Your keen insight is always appreciated from abroad. 

Thought you lived outside the US reading this.

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, JRG said:

 

For CC readers who are 'on the fence' about whether PVSA is a good thing or a bad thing that needs fixing for cruising,   you may find this reading from a highly credible subject matter expert on the economic impact of PVSA on US ports and cruising thereby.    

I found an Op-Ed from the LA Times that was written Aug 2017 before the pandemic.   It was written by an intellectual property attorney and her husband (I think) and he was Director of Economic Policy under Bush.      I recommend to Scroll to the bottom of the article and google their credentials before you read the article.  This man worked in the White House! (He also produced the Jersey Boys)

 

 

You don't mention that Victoria Buchholz happens to be the Director of Strategy & Special Projects at Princess Cruises.... hmmmm, perhaps not exactly a "disinterested party" in this debate?  

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You don't mention that Victoria Buchholz happens to be the Director of Strategy & Special Projects at Princess Cruises.... hmmmm, perhaps not exactly a "disinterested party" in this debate?  

Yet, none of the cruise lines through the CLIA have lobbied for the PVSA to be lifted.

[cruisemom42]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yet, none of the cruise lines through the CLIA have lobbied for the PVSA to be lifted.

 

Not openly perhaps. A foreign-flagged cruise line avoiding many US regulations may not be seen as the best promoter of such a change, no?  

 

We know CLIA spends a lot of the fees from members in lobbying activities.

 

By the way, it was just posted on another forum that Alaska congressman Dan Young has introduced legislation "Allowing the 2021 Cruise Season to Safely Commence":

 

 

 

The article linked in the thread says the act : "would provide a temporary PVSA workaround by deeming roundtrip voyages between Alaska and Washington State as foreign voyages for the purposes of U.S. law. The bill’s provisions are narrowly tailored to provide targeted relief for large cruise vessels trips to and from Washington State and Alaska that are the lifeblood of Alaska’s summer tourism economy. Importantly, the provisions are temporary and would only apply during the closure of Canadian waters and ports. Providing a temporary legislative solution to allow for the resumption of cruising between Alaska and Washington state under U.S. cabotage laws is an important effort in the push to save a portion of the Alaskan summer cruise season."

Edited February 26, 2021 by cruisemom42

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not openly perhaps. A foreign-flagged cruise line avoiding many US regulations may not be seen as the best promoter of such a change, no?  

 

We know CLIA spends a lot of the fees from members in lobbying activities.

 

By the way, it was just posted on another forum that Alaska congressman Dan Young has introduced legislation "Allowing the 2021 Cruise Season to Safely Commence":

 

 

 

The article linked in the thread says the act : "would provide a temporary PVSA workaround by deeming roundtrip voyages between Alaska and Washington State as foreign voyages for the purposes of U.S. law. The bill’s provisions are narrowly tailored to provide targeted relief for large cruise vessels trips to and from Washington State and Alaska that are the lifeblood of Alaska’s summer tourism economy. Importantly, the provisions are temporary and would only apply during the closure of Canadian waters and ports. Providing a temporary legislative solution to allow for the resumption of cruising between Alaska and Washington state under U.S. cabotage laws is an important effort in the push to save a portion of the Alaskan summer cruise season."

Reading the posts by some people on these forums, you have to believe that they think Congress and the President should drop all other priorities and focus only on resuming cruises, especially for Alaska. Not going to happen.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not openly perhaps. A foreign-flagged cruise line avoiding many US regulations may not be seen as the best promoter of such a change, no?  

 

We know CLIA spends a lot of the fees from members in lobbying activities.

 

By the way, it was just posted on another forum that Alaska congressman Dan Young has introduced legislation "Allowing the 2021 Cruise Season to Safely Commence":

 

 

 

The article linked in the thread says the act : "would provide a temporary PVSA workaround by deeming roundtrip voyages between Alaska and Washington State as foreign voyages for the purposes of U.S. law. The bill’s provisions are narrowly tailored to provide targeted relief for large cruise vessels trips to and from Washington State and Alaska that are the lifeblood of Alaska’s summer tourism economy. Importantly, the provisions are temporary and would only apply during the closure of Canadian waters and ports. Providing a temporary legislative solution to allow for the resumption of cruising between Alaska and Washington state under U.S. cabotage laws is an important effort in the push to save a portion of the Alaskan summer cruise season."

 

There is an interesting post on there seems to suggest it is not that well thought out legislation🤔

[broberts]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not openly perhaps. A foreign-flagged cruise line avoiding many US regulations may not be seen as the best promoter of such a change, no?  

 

We know CLIA spends a lot of the fees from members in lobbying activities.

 

By the way, it was just posted on another forum that Alaska congressman Dan Young has introduced legislation "Allowing the 2021 Cruise Season to Safely Commence":

 

 

 

The article linked in the thread says the act : "would provide a temporary PVSA workaround by deeming roundtrip voyages between Alaska and Washington State as foreign voyages for the purposes of U.S. law. The bill’s provisions are narrowly tailored to provide targeted relief for large cruise vessels trips to and from Washington State and Alaska that are the lifeblood of Alaska’s summer tourism economy. Importantly, the provisions are temporary and would only apply during the closure of Canadian waters and ports. Providing a temporary legislative solution to allow for the resumption of cruising between Alaska and Washington state under U.S. cabotage laws is an important effort in the push to save a portion of the Alaskan summer cruise season."

 

Until the CDC allows cruising to resume from US ports the effect of the PVSA is moot. I don't think it unreasonable to assume that by the time the CDC deems it safe to resume cruising so too will the Canadian Ministry of Transport.

[cruisemom42]

15 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Until the CDC allows cruising to resume from US ports the effect of the PVSA is moot. I don't think it unreasonable to assume that by the time the CDC deems it safe to resume cruising so too will the Canadian Ministry of Transport.

 

Agreed. I doubt that the proposal has much chance of going anywhere.

 

It's an interesting dance between the cruise lines and the CDC right now. Each one seems somewhat reluctant to make the next move. 

[Heidi13]

19 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Until the CDC allows cruising to resume from US ports the effect of the PVSA is moot. I don't think it unreasonable to assume that by the time the CDC deems it safe to resume cruising so too will the Canadian Ministry of Transport.

 

So true, both are addressing the issue with different methods, but with similar results.

 

The other factor that nobody has considered, even if they get past the PVSA and ships departing Seattle using only US Waters, with CDC limiting cruises to only 7 days, it will be a challenge developing and then selling 7-day repositioning cruises. The ships still have to get to Alaska.

[chengkp75]

One of the problems with this bill is the definition of "international voyage" included in 46 CFR 42.05-45, which refers to the International Convention on Load Lines, so getting to change the definition of a voyage from one US port to another as "international" (which is the legal term, Congressman, not "foreign"), would require repudiating the Load Line Convention, which brings about another whole basket of snakes that the Congressman fails to address.

 

The Congressman also says that the cruise industry is the "life blood" of the Alaskan tourist industry.  While contributing a very significant portion (49% by Alaska's own figures), it is not the only means of tourist travel, and certainly not the "lifeblood".  If he wanted to help his constituents, he should be working to append targeted aid in the covid relief bill for Alaskan tourist industries, and working on getting the state to change travel restrictions so as to attract tourists to travel by air, as I'm sure the airlines would jump at the chance to increase capacity on that route, even temporarily.

[KEN W]

Saw Prime  Minister Trudeau on TV yesterday. He said he feels they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer. So why would ports be closed until Summer 2022? 

[broberts]

9 minutes ago, KEN W said:

Saw Prime  Minister Trudeau on TV yesterday. He said he feels they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer. So why would ports be closed until Summer 2022? 

 

At the time the order was extended for a year the target complete vaccination date was September 2021.

 

The one year extension was made after several shorter extensions. I suspect there was a desire to provide longer term certainty to affected industries. Since there are few cruises between October and March, the February 2021 date seems reasonable.

[puppycanducruise]

17 minutes ago, KEN W said:

Saw Prime  Minister Trudeau on TV yesterday. He said he feels they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer. So why would ports be closed until Summer 2022? 

They also said they could allow ports to re-open sooner if things improved.

[KEN W]

Good.....Hopefully the border will be open by the end of the summer. Living in a border state.....I would like to see it open as soon as possible.

Edited March 1, 2021 by KEN W

[ontheweb]

Am I the only one to notice that the OP still has only 1 post to his or her credit? I really think the original post was meant to troll the board.

[SelectSys]

56 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Am I the only one to notice that the OP still has only 1 post to his or her credit? I really think the original post was meant to troll the board.

 

Perhaps, but it did generate some interesting debate.  It certainly generated interest and I actually learned some things from the discussion - e.g., Alaska Ferry System and other options for local cruising.  

 

1 hour ago, KEN W said:

Saw Prime  Minister Trudeau on TV yesterday. He said he feels they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer. So why would ports be closed until Summer 2022? 

 

By "they" do you mean all Canadians?  To me "end of summer" might bit late for this year's Alaska season depending on what the government views is sufficient for reopening general travel.  Remember that 9/20/2021 is the official end of summer.  Maybe a few cruises will sneak in,

 

Apparently July and August are the peak season for Alaska.  This could be a touch early.  Time will tell.  I am not sure of the peak season on the Atlantic Seaboard and the St. Laurence Seaway.  It may run a bit later than in Alaska.

[KEN W]

Yes.....He was talking about all Canadians getting vaccinated by end of summer. He was on NBC's Meet the Press yesterday. 

 

Right now there are no companies making vaccines in Canada. They are hoping to have some by year's end. Not sure how they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer if they have to compete with the rest of the world to buy them.

 

As of 2 days ago only 1% of Canadians have at least 1 dose.

US is at 7.5%

Thankfully my wife and I are part of that 7.5%.

Edited March 1, 2021 by KEN W

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, KEN W said:

Saw Prime  Minister Trudeau on TV yesterday. He said he feels they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer. So why would ports be closed until Summer 2022? 

 

You'll notice that he didn't specify a year, just end of summer.

[ontheweb]

7 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You'll notice that he didn't specify a year, just end of summer.

an interesting observation.🤣

[broberts]

1 hour ago, KEN W said:

Yes.....He was talking about all Canadians getting vaccinated by end of summer. He was on NBC's Meet the Press yesterday. 

 

Right now there are no companies making vaccines in Canada. They are hoping to have some by year's end. Not sure how they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer if they have to compete with the rest of the world to buy them.

 

As of 2 days ago only 1% of Canadians have at least 1 dose.

US is at 7.5%

Thankfully my wife and I are part of that 7.5%.

 

Canada has prepurchasd sufficient vaccine. Since vaccine cannot be shipped from the US it has been coming from Europe and elsewhere. There have been production issues, but it looks like those have been resolved.

 

End of summer is open to some interpretation. I think most of us would immediately think end of August. The prime minister may have meant the official end of summer, September 22. I won't comment on politicians and spin 🙂.

[K32682]

13 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Canada has prepurchasd sufficient vaccine. Since vaccine cannot be shipped from the US it has been coming from Europe and elsewhere. There have been production issues, but it looks like those have been resolved.

 

End of summer is open to some interpretation. I think most of us would immediately think end of August. The prime minister may have meant the official end of summer, September 22. I won't comment on politicians and spin 🙂.

 

Production issues and others in the queue ahead of Canada. And to meet this magical deadline it will take three levels of government working cooperatively within very tight time frames. Trudeau might as well have started his press statement with "Once upon a time" and finished it with "and they all lived happily ever after." It's the accepted format for fairy tales. 

 

There are over 50 countries that have vaccinated more of their population than Canada and we won't be catching up anytime soon. 

[broberts]

3 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

Production issues and others in the queue ahead of Canada. And to meet this magical deadline it will take three levels of government working cooperatively within very tight time frames. Trudeau might as well have started his press statement with "Once upon a time" and finished it with "and they all lived happily ever after." It's the accepted format for fairy tales. 

 

There are over 50 countries that have vaccinated more of their population than Canada and we won't be catching up anytime soon. 

 

Do you have any constructive suggestion for speeding up the process?

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, KEN W said:

Yes.....He was talking about all Canadians getting vaccinated by end of summer. He was on NBC's Meet the Press yesterday. 

 

Right now there are no companies making vaccines in Canada. They are hoping to have some by year's end. Not sure how they will all be vaccinated by the end of the summer if they have to compete with the rest of the world to buy them.

 

As of 2 days ago only 1% of Canadians have at least 1 dose.

US is at 7.5%

Thankfully my wife and I are part of that 7.5%.

Contracts were signed in advance by several countries, including Canada. Canada, like several other countries, "bet on several horses in the race", to hedge against one or more producers not being successful,  so they have contracts for more vaccine than required from several providers. They are not in competition with anyone.

 

Its about supply and demand. 

[K32682]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Do you have any constructive suggestion for speeding up the process?

 

Not at this point but would have had several a year ago including not futzing around with the Chinese and their vaccine and not ignoring setting up domestic production. I'd also have made regulatory changes granting vaccine approval based on CDC and UK approvals instead of waiting on the Health Canada sloths. 

 

But that's water under the bridge and at this stage I am looking at international options.  I've done business in Serbia and they are miles ahead of Canada vaccinating their population. A couple of weeks in Belgrade this summer sounds far preferable than waiting for the Canadian shots.