Natural immunity and no vaccine shot

[Anita Latte]

Just to add to the links on the discussion:

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

What I think will be a real game changer in the world being able to "get back to normal" will be when there is an effective and efficient treatment for COVID-19. It isn't talked about much on these boards, but the Pfizer treatment currently in trials is very, very promising. It is a sterilizing treatment that is seeming to be effective against coronavirus in general, COVID-19 in specific, and thus the current speculation is that it will be an effective treatment for future variants of Sars-cov-2.

 

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-initiates-phase-1-study-novel-oral-antiviral

 

Reports state that the pill could be available by the end of the year. 

 

Since the current vaccines aren't sterilizing vaccines...having a sterilizing treatment would really be a wonderful breakthrough.

[ilikeanswers]

I think India has pretty much busted the natural immunity theory. So many people have been reinfected and there have been enough severe cases of reinfection that I would not count on my natural immunity to protect me😳. You are literally relaying on a throw of the die of your genetics and enviroment, it is like driving a car without a steering wheel. You can't expect other countries to keep their fingers cross and hope their visitors have great immunity. It is also in my opinion morally wrong to be travelling to foreign countries with the potential to either burden their healthcare system and/or start an outbreak. The least you can do is respect the populations of the countries you visit by decreasing the risk of COVID as much as possible. At the end of the day travel is not a right.

[LH25]

I had Chicken Pox twice.  It's possible.  I also know two people who have had COVID twice. They work at the coffee stand we go to.  They thought they were immune, went to a party where someone was sick, and got it again.  Both times they had symptoms.

[slidergirl]

My antibodies tested non-extent at 3 months.   I couldn't afford the T and B cell test...

My PCP recommended get vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.  The vaccines are also working against those variants that are cropping up; I'm not sure if "natural immunity'" via previous infection helps against those or just re-infection with the wild strain.  

 

As for the lifetime immunity for Chicken Pox - ever hear of Shingles???  

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, evandbob said:

Hangman (the OP) cites 3 anecdotal cases where professional medical people claim no extra vax is needed if a patient has had COVID.

 

I can cite 5 anecdotal instances of folk I know who have had COVID and were advised to get either of the 2 shot vaccines by their doctors. 

 

I had also heard some reports that claimed COVID patients only needed one shot of either Moderna or Pfizer, but their doctors told them to get the normal 2 step vax for better all around variant protection.

 

Then of course, there's the majority of virologists who also advise that those who had COVID get vaxxed.

 

One can find a minority opinion somewhere amongst the internet, FB or the particular echo chamber they live in, but I prefer to go with the cautious majority recommendations on public health issues.

"Cautious majority" recommendations is nothing more then cautious majority recommendations.  It is no science, it is not necessarily based on any studies, and it is often wrong!   When Biden became President he said we much "follow the science" which I think was pretty good advice.  But then he (and many of his administration) have often ignored science as has the CDC.  So today (Thursday) we get another CDC statement that vaccinated folks no longer need to wear masks in most settings (indoor and out).  But yesterday they sent a different message, the day before it was an even more different message.  About 2 weeks ago they said they cruisers need to wear masks, even while on deck in the open air.  But today, with no additional science or studies nobody who is vaccinated needs to wear a mask?  What changed in the last few days?    The answer is simply "public opinion" and some tough questions from a few members of Congress.  This is the new "science" which is that the CDC now follows public opinion.  Go figure.  And then they wonder why they have lost credibility with many Americans.   So we eagerly wait for tomorrow to see what new revelation we will get from the CDC.  So sad....

 

Hank

 

[slidergirl]

Hank - how do you know there were no additional studies or papers that helped push?  There been papers produced in the last few weeks in the Lancet and NEJM that showed some valuable new info.  I wouldn't expect the CDC to read it and just say "OK" - they had to take the time to research the data presented.  It's not sad.  Personally, I'd rather have them go slow and be cautious about a still deadly and mutating virus with information that is still evolving than just diving in.  

 

The next step is waiting to see what liars come out of the woodwork to not wear a mask and say that they are vaccinated.  Not just a hazard to themselves and unvaccinated others (let them Darwin themselves), but children who are not yet of the age to be able to be vaccinated...

 

[CruiserBruce]

Common on @Hlitner, you know exactly what the status and results of all studies that are in progress? Perhaps some studies that weren't peer reviewed yet have completed review? For example, there have been some studies indicating the chance of catching Covid if you are fully vaccinated in much higher than producer studies indicated, like 94 or 95% protection in producer studies, now, as high as 99.9 protective in real world studies. 

 

Or you just can't stop second guessing the CDC, no matter what they do or say? Fauci was sending out signals over the weekend that a significant change was coming.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

"Cautious majority" recommendations is nothing more then cautious majority recommendations.  It is no science, it is not necessarily based on any studies, and it is often wrong!   When Biden became President he said we much "follow the science" which I think was pretty good advice.  But then he (and many of his administration) have often ignored science as has the CDC.  So today (Thursday) we get another CDC statement that vaccinated folks no longer need to wear masks in most settings (indoor and out).  But yesterday they sent a different message, the day before it was an even more different message.  About 2 weeks ago they said they cruisers need to wear masks, even while on deck in the open air.  But today, with no additional science or studies nobody who is vaccinated needs to wear a mask?  What changed in the last few days?    The answer is simply "public opinion" and some tough questions from a few members of Congress.  This is the new "science" which is that the CDC now follows public opinion.  Go figure.  And then they wonder why they have lost credibility with many Americans.   So we eagerly wait for tomorrow to see what new revelation we will get from the CDC.  So sad....

 

Hank

 

Are you really paying 

 

1 minute ago, slidergirl said:

Hank - how do you know there were no additional studies or papers that helped push?  There been papers produced in the last few weeks in the Lancet and NEJM that showed some valuable new info.  I wouldn't expect the CDC to read it and just say "OK" - they had to take the time to research the data presented.  It's not sad.  Personally, I'd rather have them go slow and be cautious about a still deadly and mutating virus with information that is still evolving than just diving in.  

 

The next step is waiting to see what liars come out of the woodwork to not wear a mask and say that they are vaccinated.  Not just a hazard to themselves and unvaccinated others (let them Darwin themselves), but children who are not yet of the age to be able to be vaccinated...

 

The OP was clearly trying to justify his anti-vaxxer stance with a lot of claimed “advice” from many “medical professionals” — I am afraid he has infected Mr. H, who has started coming out with some truly amazing rants.

[slidergirl]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

Are you really paying 

 

The OP was clearly trying to justify his anti-vaxxer stance with a lot of claimed “advice” from many “medical professionals” — I am afraid he has infected Mr. H, who has started coming out with some truly amazing rants.

 

Well, it has been shown in Long COVID suffers that the brain IS affected.. 😉

[Hlitner]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

Are you really paying 

 

The OP was clearly trying to justify his anti-vaxxer stance with a lot of claimed “advice” from many “medical professionals” — I am afraid he has infected Mr. H, who has started coming out with some truly amazing rants.

Throw your barbs (I am wearing my armor) 🙂  But lets be very clear that I am, and have always been, very pro vaccination!   I am happy that my entire family all got vaccinated as soon as it was possible.

 

Do I rant about the CDC?  Absolutely.  Their mixed messaging, missteps (going back to their original COVID tests that were defective), and refusal to accept their own statistics have been information that is readily available to both the press and public.   I give some credit to a few members of our Congress who have had the "audacity" to question the CDC and put their Director on the spot to explain some of the contradictions between their policies and their own data.   I suspect it is not a coincidence that since Dr. Walensky got raked over the coals yesterday (before a Senate committee) that the CDC announced the major policy shift today.   You can find one of my posts from yesterday that predicted that the CDC would back off some of their silly policies but never admit they had erred.    Now perhaps it is time for the CDC to completely rescind their "Conditional Sail Order" and adopt a simple policy that allows ships that have 100% vaccinated passengers/crew to sail to and from US Ports...immediately.  As to making exceptions for some folks and children who are not vaccinated, it is still an issue that needs to be reasonably resolved.

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

59 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

   Now perhaps it is time for the CDC to completely rescind their "Conditional Sail Order" and adopt a simple policy that allows ships that have 100% vaccinated passengers/crew to sail to and from US Ports...immediately.  As to making exceptions for some folks and children who are not vaccinated, it is still an issue that needs to be reasonably resolved.

 

Hank

@chengkp75, whose opinion I know you have said you respect, has in another thread looked at this from an engineer's point of view. He basically said that no cruise line has said how they would enforce that 100% to be vaccinated.

 

I would imagine that that is the next step.

[Hlitner]

31 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

@chengkp75, whose opinion I know you have said you respect, has in another thread looked at this from an engineer's point of view. He basically said that no cruise line has said how they would enforce that 100% to be vaccinated.

 

I would imagine that that is the next step.

Actually, there are some lines that have been pretty transparent about the issue but we are talking cruises outside the USA (there are still no US based cruises).  For example, Seabourn is starting cruises from Pireaus and Barbados this July (neither of these are subject to CDC edicts).  Seabourn is requiring all passenger and crew to be vaccinated.  They will accept vaccine cards as proof.  I should add that in order to enter Greece folks will need to have proof of vaccination which could be your CDC vaccination card.  As to Barbados, their current rules do require PCR testing.  But one might suspect that the current requirements will be modified prior to the resumption of cruising from that island.

 

We have all heard the issue raised about how easy it is to falsify a vaccination card (or even a test).  I suspect that cruise lines will just have to live with that risk as will others.  But consider if somebody falsifies their data and later gets ill with COVID their own liability could become a real issue.  I would assume that a cruise ship that was forced to divert or cut short a cruise because somebody lied about being vaccinated would have good grounds to sue that person for $millions.  And every passenger on that vessel might also want to pursue civil action against a person who lied or falsified information that led to others having their vacation cut short.

 

For those who have not been traveling let me explain the current situation with coming back to the USA.  Folks need to be tested within 3 days of their flight by either an Antigen test or a molecular test (i.e. PCR).  However, the US Government also requires each traveler to complete an attestation form which you must then date and sign..or you will not be able to board your flight.  That form is so you can attest that the COVID test results you submit are true.  Part of that official government form says

"Willfully providing false or misleading information may lead to criminal fines and imprisonment under, among others, 18 U.S.C. § 1001."

 

Hank

 

[LynnTTT]

21 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

R

Read the new updated CDC guidebook. Cannot find the answer. Maybe someone can share some advice.

millions and tens of millions who had covid and lived. Science and a few of my doctors saym those who had covid now have buikt up a natural immunity. Sorta like the chicken pox. They do not need a vaccine shot. No science has shown getting a vaccine shot will get them double immunity.
 

So all I see is you MUST get a shot and prove it with you CDC shot card. These tens of millions will not have a card and will not have the shot. So will my two friends be denied boardiing since they have built up natural immunity, according to their doctor?I looked again and still do not see this. What about the n

 -Having had covid does NOT give you the same % of immunity.  People have gotten it again. And people have been tested four moths after and didn't show any immunity.

-Get the damn shot.  You won't realize what a weight is lifted from your shouldes.

- People expect the cruise ship to allow them on board if they have a negative test? Then what? Do you expect the ship to test you every other day?

-Maybe the ship will let you on but the ports/countries won't. And may require travel health insurance. Turks and Caicos does right now.

- Without more people getting vaccinated, we will never reach herd immunity, which means this will hang around for years. And new varients may arise.

 

 

 

[Donald]

Florida-Man strikes again !

Recent studies have suggested that one of the side-effects of COVID is a reduced ability for logical thinking.

[slidergirl]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

Florida-Man strikes again !

Recent studies have suggested that one of the side-effects of COVID is a reduced ability for logical thinking.

I'll vouch for that as a Long Covid person.  I mean, look, I'm in this discussion...

 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

Florida-Man strikes again !

Recent studies have suggested that one of the side-effects of COVID is a reduced ability for logical thinking.

And, it seems that a number of posters are displaying that syndrome:  disturbing evidence of the the possibility of  previously-unsuspected transmission of symptoms by reading infected CC posts

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

…

Now perhaps it is time for the CDC to completely rescind their "Conditional Sail Order" and adopt a simple policy that allows ships that have 100% vaccinated passengers/crew to sail to and from US Ports...immediately.  As to making exceptions for some folks and children who are not vaccinated, it is still an issue that needs to be reasonably resolved.

 

Hank

How do you “reasonably” resolve making exceptions to a policy calling for 100% vaccinated passengers?   
 

Put bluntly: 100% means NO exceptions.

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

How do you “reasonably” resolve making exceptions to a policy calling for 100% vaccinated passengers?   
 

Put bluntly: 100% means NO exceptions.

You will not get an argument from me :).   My personal position is that one should get vaccinated or be prepared to comply with lots of travel-related restrictions.  We just returned (last week) from 8 days in an All Inclusive resort (Mexico) where nobody bothered to wear a mask.  It was truly liberating and felt normal.   It was satisfying to find an alternate universe of folks determined to live a relatively normal life without somebody dictating rules.  Everyone we met claimed to be fully vaccinated.  If they were not (nobody was asking for proof) then it was their problem if they got sick.    That works fine on land but if we get liars and cheaters (using fake vaccination documents) on a cruise perhaps they should be "keel hauled" and left for the sharks.  Hospitals are full of antivaxers, most of who realize (too late) that a vaccine was the better choice.

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Actually, there are some lines that have been pretty transparent about the issue but we are talking cruises outside the USA (there are still no US based cruises).  For example, Seabourn is starting cruises from Pireaus and Barbados this July (neither of these are subject to CDC edicts).  Seabourn is requiring all passenger and crew to be vaccinated.  They will accept vaccine cards as proof.  I should add that in order to enter Greece folks will need to have proof of vaccination which could be your CDC vaccination card.  As to Barbados, their current rules do require PCR testing.  But one might suspect that the current requirements will be modified prior to the resumption of cruising from that island.

 

We have all heard the issue raised about how easy it is to falsify a vaccination card (or even a test).  I suspect that cruise lines will just have to live with that risk as will others.  But consider if somebody falsifies their data and later gets ill with COVID their own liability could become a real issue.  I would assume that a cruise ship that was forced to divert or cut short a cruise because somebody lied about being vaccinated would have good grounds to sue that person for $millions.  And every passenger on that vessel might also want to pursue civil action against a person who lied or falsified information that led to others having their vacation cut short.

 

For those who have not been traveling let me explain the current situation with coming back to the USA.  Folks need to be tested within 3 days of their flight by either an Antigen test or a molecular test (i.e. PCR).  However, the US Government also requires each traveler to complete an attestation form which you must then date and sign..or you will not be able to board your flight.  That form is so you can attest that the COVID test results you submit are true.  Part of that official government form says

"Willfully providing false or misleading information may lead to criminal fines and imprisonment under, among others, 18 U.S.C. § 1001."

 

Hank

 

I have a strong feeling that our favorite chief engineer could not live with the solution that we will just have to live with the risk of falsifying data. He would want something much more rigorous.

[Hangman115]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:31 AM, wowzz said:

The only way to get natural immunity, is to become infected with CV19! I'm glad I've gone down the vaccination route.

https://www.immunology.org/news/immunity-and-covid-19-what-do-we-know-so-far

I would change my personal doctors if I were you! 

Maybe my words were misunderstood. My two friends who are schedule to sail in the fall of 2021 bothh had and were treated by boctors for Covid-19. That is how they now have natual immunity. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

13 minutes ago, Hangman115 said:

Maybe my words were misunderstood. My two friends who are schedule to sail in the fall of 2021 bothh had and were treated by boctors for Covid-19. That is how they now have natual immunity. 

What part of “no vaccine - no cruise” do you not understand?

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Hangman115 said:

Maybe my words were misunderstood. My two friends who are schedule to sail in the fall of 2021 bothh had and were treated by boctors for Covid-19. That is how they now have natual immunity. 

Have they  been tested regularly for  the Antibodies?

From reading medical views  the antibodies  may not last  forever  in some cases  it was only a few months

 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Have they  been tested regularly for  the Antibodies?

From reading medical views  the antibodies  may not last  forever  in some cases  it was only a few months

 

 

Yes -- and even if they have antibodies now, who knows if they will still have them in the fall when the cruise is scheduled?

[LHT28]

16 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes -- and even if they have antibodies now, who knows if they will still have them in the fall when the cruise is scheduled?

Sorry I missed the post  where it said they were regularly tested

 

But yes   will they still have antibodies  when they cruise ?

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, Hangman115 said:

Maybe my words were misunderstood. My two friends who are schedule to sail in the fall of 2021 bothh had and were treated by boctors for Covid-19. That is how they now have natual immunity. 

As having had COVID and now a Long Covid "victim", there is no guarantee of how long the "natural immunity" will last.  Mine was gone inside of 3 months.  In my support group, Survivor Corps, we talk about this all the time and have found there is no for sure timetable.  A demonstrable number of the group has had COVID a second time and it was not pleasant.   Not one of our medical advisors or PCPs have advised to not get the vaccine.  

 

Just get the da*n vaccine.