“Ambush” style of new charges!

[C-Dragons]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Respectfully disagree. What got cruise lines into this place is shutting down the world economy and, in particular, cruises for 18 months. Now, I might agree if you want to expand upon how corporate greed (executive compensation) played into the pandemic response, but unfortunately this isn't the forum for that discussion. 

 

Sure, executives compensation could be less, but Fain could donate his entire salary (14 Million) and that wouldn't even begin to touch one month of interest only payments on current debt. Executive compensation is miniscule compared to current debt load. They could all donate 100% of their salaries and work for free for the next five years and it would be a drop in the bucket.

This ^

[Los_Pepes]

1 hour ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

Let's look at the problem graphically.  If a global pandemic hits and you have a lot of fixed assets (like cruise ships), the ONLY way to stay in business is issue debt or sell capital.  The cruise lines literally mortgaged their entire businesses.  This issue will spiral (in bad way) as cheaper debt issued before the pandemic needs to be refinanced with higher rates.  Expect one or more of the major lines to go bankrupt either forcefully or strategically.

Great analysis and it looks like NCL is going to drown in debt. RCL added a significant amount of debt as well and it looks like all of the cost cutting is going towards debt service. This will backfire as the nickle and diming, the reduction in service and overall reduction in value is going to drive passengers away. I have a trip booked a few months from and deeply regret having booked it. 

[Saturngrl]

1 hour ago, ehall said:

Could not agree with this more.  Also have a blackbelt in Six Sigma and did process improvement for years.  I also wish they had someone doing this.  I had an issue with a few things on a recent TA and spoke to the retreat manager and gave her some feedback.  She literally told me she was very impressed with my constructive feedback and at the end of our cruise, we received a considerable FCC.  It's so simple - if only they would get someone to look at the issues they could easily resolve.😂

 

Thank you!  I'm also a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt and work with a Black Belt and PMP who used to work for RC.  I don't know if they still have any on their team, but hope they might! 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Los_Pepes said:

Great analysis and it looks like NCL is going to drown in debt. RCL added a significant amount of debt as well and it looks like all of the cost cutting is going towards debt service. This will backfire as the nickle and diming, the reduction in service and overall reduction in value is going to drive passengers away. I have a trip booked a few months from and deeply regret having booked it. 

People who cruise say just 1x/year or every few years are not going anywhere, they will gladly pay what they feel is a good value for their vacation time.  May shop around to find it, but they are not going to care if they only get one spiny or cold water lobster, they won't care if they pay 10 bucks for room service or whatever the drink package costs.  Good on them, they are out to have a fun time and they will.  There are FAR more people like that then there are here on CC

[Los_Pepes]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

People who cruise say just 1x/year or every few years are not going anywhere, they will gladly pay what they feel is a good value for their vacation time.  May shop around to find it, but they are not going to care if they only get one spiny or cold water lobster, they won't care if they pay 10 bucks for room service or whatever the drink package costs.  Good on them, they are out to have a fun time and they will.  There are FAR more people like that then there are here on CC

I am inclined to agree with you on most points. I will add however that customer loyalty/retention is a KPI that these lines care deeply about. 

[Mike45LC]

1 hour ago, Luvcrusn said:

Not an oatmeal raisin cookie to be found on Equinox  12/12-12/22.😢

On the Solstice in 12-2022, the ONLY cookies were at Cafe Al Bacio.  I missed Princess's double choco chip cookies!

[sanjay]

3 hours ago, Saturngrl said:

I'm a certified Lean practitioner and wish the cruise lines would use someone like me to help them identify sources of Waste to eliminate the wastes while keeping their customers happy. 

 

i would guess rccl being a huge company with a market cap of close to 15 billion dolllars has a whole fleet of lean sigma's advising on everything.

 

this is also why we have these changes happening.

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, jelayne said:

Some of the items that have changed or disappeared happened  quite awhile ago, the discontinuing of cotton balls, Qtips & shower caps stopped long before Covid in non-suite cabins.  Aqua & CC sparkling wine and canapes have been by request since before Covid also, although some Cabin Attendants had them delivered without request most others didn't.

 

Not being able to order from the MDR menu in Blu was the protocol when we started cruising with Celebrity in 2012 on S Class ships.  Since the restart it seems with reduced passenger counts they relaxed on that but with staff shortages it makes sense, particularly on S and E class, not to have servers running to the MDR kitchen to get meals.

 

If tote bags have been eliminated that is new as we got one a few weeks ago.

The welcome aboard bubbly has been replaced with bubbly at the Captains Toast.  I too miss the "idea" of being handed a glass as we walked on the ship, but the realty was I hated trying to handle a roll-aboard, purse and a glass in a mass of people in a small space.

 

Oatmeal cookies that would be a major to me, but I remain hopeful as there were none in October but available every day in December.  

 

 

 

I will ask for the Aqua sparkling wine vintage 1967.  But I wish they could just leave it in the fridge so you aren't getting buckets and buckets of ice trying to chill it.  For that matter, I don't remember if I had an ice bucket in my room.  It's been a while.  I'm tempted to order a bottle of champagne from the "sail away / gift" department.  But I don't think I'll drink it all.  I'd rather go to one of the bars.

[phoenix_dream]

Some of the things mentioned in the original post surprised me.  Are we sure they are all true, or did someone just experience them on one sailing and assume it applies to all?  Or are these new to 2023 and confirmed?

 

Specifically -

- where is it announced that you can't order off MDR menu in Blu?  We did in September.  I'm not sure about E class, but never had an issue doing that on S or M.  

- what is reduced on the MDR menu?  On our December cruise we often ordered off that menu and didn't notice any reductions

- we got a tote bag in our cabin (granted it was as sky suite) in December.  Not the nice one of old, but a bag

- confused about a reduced classics menu?  Where was that announced and what is missing?  We ordered off that often in December as well

 

I've heard about the room service charge which I don't like even though I never use it, and I know portions are smaller, but I confess never going hungry and except maybe for lobster you can order as much as you want

 

I am concerned about the recent nickel and diming, and I don't like these things being sprung on you after you booked, although in fairness there would be no way for them to handle some passengers one way and others another.  It would have been nice for some kind of an announcement to come out to advise people of upcoming changes - heaven knows they manage to send out enough emails to advertise their sales and to tell you about any positive changes!!

 

If anyone can comment and confirm the changes I asked about above I would appreciate it!

[jelayne]

26 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I will ask for the Aqua sparkling wine vintage 1967.  But I wish they could just leave it in the fridge so you aren't getting buckets and buckets of ice trying to chill it.  For that matter, I don't remember if I had an ice bucket in my room.  It's been a while.  I'm tempted to order a bottle of champagne from the "sail away / gift" department.  But I don't think I'll drink it all.  I'd rather go to one of the bars.

Just tell them when you want it and they will have it in your cabin chilling.

[Chardonnay Char]

To repeat the question from above,  has anyone on a current sailing tried to order MDR while in Blu?   I had not seen this either, and some of the Blu offerings are just "too healthy" for me. Duck salad for dinner is not my cup of tea, at least on a cruise.

 

[prmssk]

1 minute ago, Chardonnay Char said:

To repeat the question from above,  has anyone on a current sailing tried to order MDR while in Blu?   I had not seen this either, and some of the Blu offerings are just "too healthy" for me. Duck salad for dinner is not my cup of tea, at least on a cruise.

 

This question came up on a group I am in elsewhere and someone on the Eclipse right now is having no issues ordering off the MDR from Blu.

[neverlaysup]

1 hour ago, shanebbb said:

During Christmas we selected a cruise - Feb 25th on the Apex in Aqua.  The price with insurance was $4724, which it had been for at least 3 weeks.  I checked on Tue (Jan 3) at 3:00 PM to be sure it was the same and then called the TA.  She checked for me and at 4:00 the price had jumped up to $5600 (with insurance).  Between 3:00 and 4:00 PM they increased the price by 18%.  That, along with all the cost cutting listed on this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Celebrity.

 

BTW - no Aqua cabins on that sailing have been sold since the Tuesday increase.

 

Our last cruise was pre-pandemic and we were REALLY looking forward to this one but WE'RE OUT!

 

All the best to all of you helpful people!

-Shane

Or you could book a Porthole Veranda with the All Included package for $3600 and use the savings to buy spa passes and specialty dine every night.

[zitsky]

48 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Just tell them when you want it and they will have it in your cabin chilling.

Oh I understand.  Will they just grab a warm bottle or a cold one for the ice bucket?  🤔 

 

I don’t know why I am fine drinking red at room temperature but I collapse into a puddle if I have to drink a warm glass of white.  😭

[mahdnc]

Celebrity will need to add an onboard therapist(s).  I am going to need it.

[JLMcruise]

I miss the Swan Puff Pastry from the days of the Zenith and Horizon but we still enjoyed our 47 days on Celebrity this year. Enjoyed lunch from the Aqua Cafe - though I will admit to taking a couple plates at lunch. Always found a favorite bartender to make my drinks the way I like them. Not a big fan of "buffets" but my husband enjoys the soups for lunch. I guess we are the glass is half full type of people. Hate being on a cruise when people constantly complain or compare this cruise to that cruise. We just like to find fellow cruiser who feel the same as us -  want to have a good time, relax, have fun and enjoy life. I guess we might stop cruising if we had a boat full of complainers. Out of the 6 cruises this year - the staff went out of their way to make us happy. Yes we did have one meal at the Tuscan Grill that was not greatest - so we didn't go back. 

[Guest 4-2-N-8]

7 hours ago, cruisingator2 said:

I wonder how popular the retreat/suites will be once all of the FCC’s are used up? I suspect that was one reason why they were so popular. I looked at a few sailings in the retreat for 2023 and I refuse to pay those prices. Especially after experiencing the X retreat product last month on the Solstice. 

Were you in a PH or RS? Were you a full-pay or move-up?

 

What was not acceptable about the Retreat?

[curtsfan]

8 hours ago, luv4cruises said:

With more than 50 cruises on 6 different cruise lines Celebrity had become my favorite! As cruising resumed we have experienced cutbacks on Celebrity and other cruise lines. On Celebrity - no welcome aboard champagne, no cabin tote bags, reduced MDR menu, smaller portions, most recently 9.95 + gratuities charge for room service, reduced classics’ menu, discontinuing of Blu option to order from full MDR menu, elimination of canapés for Aqua guests, charge for second lobster, reduced dinner offerings in Ocean View cafe, minimal bathroom products. Add to that  rapidly escalating prices- a$1,000.00increase in 1 month for a 6 day 2024 cruise we were planning to book after Thanksgiving and tried to book after Christmas!  None of the cutbacks alone is any big deal but the TREND is!!!!
Most importantly the manner in which these changes are being rolled  out feels like an ambush to me. No prior notification We have 3 future cruises booked. What Celebrity is delivering is NOT the product we purchased. We are not being treated as valued, loyal guests.  I’m sure if I read the contract  there will be clauses that justify their changes and charges. That is not the point. I always felt Celebrity was classy, a step above Princess and HAL. Modern luxury is on its way out as Celebrity joins the nickel and dime cruise lines. What is next?  Read the boards - your main source of info. 

Like you, we are avid cruisers & have settled on Celebrity as our favorite.  I haven’t seen a lot of the changes that you mentioned.  We started back cruising last August on the Edge.  We were upgraded from Concierge to AquaClass without charge.  We were able to order off the MDR menu in Blu anytime we wanted. Our next cruise was in Nov onboard the Reflection & got a free upgrade up AquaClass again.  No problem ordering off the MDR on that cruise either.  We then cruised in March of this year on the Connie.  They did have lobster night onboard ( same on the previous cruises).  We had delivered canapés every evening on each of those cruises.  We did notice a reduced menu in the Oceanview, but attributed it to not having a full ship.  The welcome aboard champagne wasn’t available because of Covid.  And because we we AquaClass & Concierge on the last cruise, we had a full room service menu & we’re not charged a fee.  
We are sailing on the Silhouette at the end of the month & will be curious to see if these things are no longer available.  We did an NCL cruise in July & they no longer have Lobster night.  Which was ironic, since one of our stops was in Maine😂.

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 hours ago, Mike45LC said:

On the Solstice in 12-2022, the ONLY cookies were at Cafe Al Bacio.  I missed Princess's double choco chip cookies!

Just off Princess.  Cookies only available at International Cafe.  Only Chocolate Chip or Oatmeal Rasin.  In 2 weeks nary a double chocolate!

Cookies were smaller so got 2.

[Covepointcruiser]

Never had my favorite cookies, peanut butter or chocolate chips.   They did however have gluten and sugar free selections so perhaps they can only bake so many different types of cookies.

[hawkesbaynz]

I feel like I have been ‘ambushed’! Was not even aware there was raisin oatmeal cookies available. Been on several X cruises. 
 

I enjoy lobster but cannot understand the obsession on these boards. 
 

We have a light lunch so MDR choice fine.

 

I wish X would spend a bit more on the electricity in the gym and turn the A/C up. It’s not a pleasant temperature for a work out. 
 

Agree with the concerning deterioration with sundries.
 

Never occurred to me to order off MDR menu in Blu. Have done in Luminae only as it was offered. Why pay extra? Just book Verandah and pay for speciality dining. 
 

Living in Southampton the exorbitant increase in Apex pricing in comparison with Silhouette will certainly turn me to other lines. We are trying Oceania - food and itineraries great but relaxed evening vibe (I am being kind). 

[stellarose]

no sparkling wine when you board??

[curtsfan]

3 hours ago, Los_Pepes said:

I am inclined to agree with you on most points. I will add however that customer loyalty/retention is a KPI that these lines care deeply about. 

I totally agree with you.  

[zitsky]

38 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Never had my favorite cookies, peanut butter or chocolate chips.   They did however have gluten and sugar free selections so perhaps they can only bake so many different types of cookies.

I have a friend who eats gluten free.  I’ve eaten her desserts but they don’t seem quite the same.

[Cruzinforpeace***]

8 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

It's probably the people who have been cruising for years that are noticing the changes the most, we started cruising in 1982 and some of the changes by most of the lines have been pretty drastic. It's going to get to the point were the cruise lines are going to nickel and dime so much that people will consider other vacation options. I know that we are done with HAL as they have reached the point that their product has really suffered in the food and entertainment aspects of their cruises.

We currently have a Summit cruise booked for July but may cancel before final payment and go for the land vacation instead.  The value is starting to not be there.