birth certificate thread #978345

[adventuredancer]

ok, i searched. and searched. 

b-i-l has a baby mom (from now on known as dumb idiot-and not just because of this situation). her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in. 

she was borne in texas, we live in florida. so she can't go in person to get one.

she already asked for the new one expediated back when she told me one month ago

we sail in literally ONE WEEK. it may or may not come in time. this is a family cruise (bil will get a letter from her just in case). and their solution right now (if the new birth certificate doesn't come), is for her to show up with the photo copy and hope they let her on. 

i know when they check you in, they look at your documents. i have always sailed with a passport.

 

what if Carnival allows her on (accepts her birth certificate copy), but then customs is not happy with the copy when she come back? 

what are the chances that they will accept this copy? (I know they will accept a copy, but its not an official copy and her original is very beat up). 

[1025cruise]

Carnival won't let her on without proper documentation. 

[klfrodo]

23 minutes ago, adventuredancer said:

 

 (from now on known as dumb idiot-and not just because of this situation).

she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in. 

 

 

this is a family cruise (bil will get a letter from her just in case).

Every family has one of these family members.

 

a "certified" photocopy is acceptable. A copy of a half-eaten, thousand folds, crumpled up and flattened, copy from your home copier isn't going to work.

 

Plan on this proud family member not going.

[dallasdan]

does her parents or grandparents still live in Texas?  If so, they can go to any courthouse in Texas and request a copy of the birth certificate.

[mz-s]

4 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

Every family has one of these family members.

 

a "certified" photocopy is acceptable. A copy of a half-eaten, thousand folds, crumpled up and flattened, copy from your home copier isn't going to work.

 

Plan on this proud family member not going.

 

Nowhere does Carnival's documentation say the photocopy needs to be certified.

[starstruck05]

2 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Nowhere does Carnival's documentation say the photocopy needs to be certified.

All birth certificates need to be certified. It doesn't state a photocopy because a photocopy is not normally accepted.

[starstruck05]

36 minutes ago, adventuredancer said:

ok, i searched. and searched. 

b-i-l has a baby mom (from now on known as dumb idiot-and not just because of this situation). her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in. 

she was borne in texas, we live in florida. so she can't go in person to get one.

she already asked for the new one expediated back when she told me one month ago

we sail in literally ONE WEEK. it may or may not come in time. this is a family cruise (bil will get a letter from her just in case). and their solution right now (if the new birth certificate doesn't come), is for her to show up with the photo copy and hope they let her on. 

i know when they check you in, they look at your documents. i have always sailed with a passport.

 

what if Carnival allows her on (accepts her birth certificate copy), but then customs is not happy with the copy when she come back? 

what are the chances that they will accept this copy? (I know they will accept a copy, but its not an official copy and her original is very beat up). 

I used to work check in for another cruiseline. It's up to the port staff who will also need to get approval from Homeland for the photo to be used but no one can answer if they will say yes or no. Did she go on the Vital records site and try and get an expedited one? Or as someone mentioned if she has someone still in Texas can they go get it on her behalf in person and overnight or even fax it? I've seen approvals for the wildest issues so hold out hope but have a plan in place just in case.

[teknoge3k]

A photocopy of the birth certificate is perfectly acceptable. It doesn't need to be a "certified copy". A photocopy from your home printer is all that's needed to accompany the ID. It doesn't need to be certified, notarized, have a raised seal, or any of that. All of this information is clearly stated on Carnivals website.

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, starstruck05 said:

All birth certificates need to be certified. It doesn't state a photocopy because a photocopy is not normally accepted.

 

Photocopies are absolutely accepted for Carnival cruises.

[starstruck05]

Photo copy means a printed copy of the original NOT a photo on the phone.

[mz-s]

Just now, starstruck05 said:

Photo copy means a printed copy of the original NOT a photo on the phone.

 

You're the first person to mention a phone. But even then, you can snap a photo of your BC and print it out at home. That's acceptable for Carnival.

[lazydayz]

If it's a photocopy of an originally issued government birth certificate, she may be fine.  But if it's a copy of one from the hospital, she is out of luck.  

 

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, adventuredancer said:

ok, i searched. and searched. 

b-i-l has a baby mom (from now on known as dumb idiot-and not just because of this situation). her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in. 

she was borne in texas, we live in florida. so she can't go in person to get one.

she already asked for the new one expediated back when she told me one month ago

we sail in literally ONE WEEK. it may or may not come in time. this is a family cruise (bil will get a letter from her just in case). and their solution right now (if the new birth certificate doesn't come), is for her to show up with the photo copy and hope they let her on. 

i know when they check you in, they look at your documents. i have always sailed with a passport.

 

what if Carnival allows her on (accepts her birth certificate copy), but then customs is not happy with the copy when she come back? 

what are the chances that they will accept this copy? (I know they will accept a copy, but its not an official copy and her original is very beat up). 

Can you read every number and letter on the paper?

[adventuredancer]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Can you read every number and letter on the paper?

no. i couldn't read every number and letter on the original before it got turned into passport people. 

[Ferry_Watcher]

As someone like @starstruck05, I work check-in for closed loop cruises to Alaska.  Each cruise line and each local port will vary slightly in what is bottom line acceptable for documents.  The legal bottom line is proof of US citizenship - the actual evidence of proof of US citizenship is basically what we are talking about here.

 

For example, the OP's traveling companion only has a photocopy of their birth certificate.  If the photocopy was clear, readable, and matched up with the passenger's  gov't issued ID it would most likely be accepted at my pier.

 

If, for example, a passenger showed up with just a Global Entry Card, most of the cruise lines I deal with would decline to accept it.  One cruise line might accept it, but the discussion would go up and down the chain and include talking to the Ship's Documentation Officer, who has the finally word on these matters.

 

The cruise lines really want all passengers to board, but they have to have confidence that the citizenship documents that we accept at check-in, or that are referred to our supervisors or to the documentation officer, would pass muster with the CBP Officers. If not, big trouble, big fines, and someone can lose their job.  It's not worth the risk to take a chance.

 

So, there is the corporate fine print, and then there is real life, boots on the ground, local best practices. This is one of the benefits of doing online check-in, so you actually have your proof of citizenship documents out early, in hand, entering the information well before your cruise, and to not to be surprised.  Luckily, 99.5% of passengers arrive with their correct documents (get passports people!!!).  The remaining .05% are either a hard denial, or 'let's see if this could legally work'.

 

As for the OP's family member: with the cruise a week away, your family member probably doesn't have much to lose at this point (I guess being a no show would save taxes and fees).  It might be worth taking a chance and seeing if their photocopy birth certificate would be accepted by the pier staff.  Remember, it has to be readable, the photocopy should show all four corners of the original gov't issued birth certificate (not hospital), and that the name and date of birth match the gov't issued photo ID. For a woman who has her married name on her driver's license, we look at the first and middle name, as well as the date of birth

I would say to the OP, be prepared for the worst, but it's probably worth the risk to show up on embarkation day.

[Purvis1231]

8 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Every family has one of these family members.

 

a "certified" photocopy is acceptable. A copy of a half-eaten, thousand folds, crumpled up and flattened, copy from your home copier isn't going to work.

 

Plan on this proud family member not going.

I have known it to work for others. I have relatives born in Texas and once they order one online and it came in a few days to another state

Edited April 25, 2023 by Purvis1231
typo

[Colorado Beach Bum]

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

If, for example, a passenger showed up with just a Global Entry Card, most of the cruise lines I deal with would decline to accept it.

Interestingly that Global Entry wouldn’t be accepted.  I thought you had to show proof of citizenship to get that.  I keep my global entry card with me just in case I was to loose my passport but never bring my birth certificate with me. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

As someone like @starstruck05, I work check-in for closed loop cruises to Alaska.  Each cruise line and each local port will vary slightly in what is bottom line acceptable for documents.  The legal bottom line is proof of US citizenship - the actual evidence of proof of US citizenship is basically what we are talking about here.

 

For example, the OP's traveling companion only has a photocopy of their birth certificate.  If the photocopy was clear, readable, and matched up with the passenger's  gov't issued ID it would most likely be accepted at my pier.

 

 

 

What do you mean by clear readable, and matching copy would "most likely be accepted".  Are you saying that someone who follows Carnival's very specific instructions regarding copies of BC's  could be turned away?  It is hard to think this would be at the whim of each individual port.   

 

[icft]

Perhaps I have missed or misunderstood something but the OP said, " her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in."

 

If what she sent in to get a passport was "the wrong version" it would appear to me what she sent in is not a valid birth certificate. So how would having either the original of something that is not accepted as a birth certificate by the U.S. government or a copy of that invalid document help anything?

 

Since the OP said, "she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in" and never mentioned a photo copy of any other document I assume it is a copy of the invalid document that is under discussion.

 

But they sound like Carnival's target new cruisers and Carnival will do everything possible to get them on board so they should take what they have and hope for the best.

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

52 minutes ago, icft said:

Perhaps I have missed or misunderstood something but the OP said, " her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in."

 

If what she sent in to get a passport was "the wrong version" it would appear to me what she sent in is not a valid birth certificate. So how would having either the original of something that is not accepted as a birth certificate by the U.S. government or a copy of that invalid document help anything?

 

Since the OP said, "she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in" and never mentioned a photo copy of any other document I assume it is a copy of the invalid document that is under discussion.

 

But they sound like Carnival's target new cruisers and Carnival will do everything possible to get them on board so they should take what they have and hope for the best.

Passport application requires an original birth certificate with the seal, they will not accept a photocopy.

 

So, it's possible that whatever was sent in with the passport application could be OK for a cruise. We don't know exactly what was sent in.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

What do you mean by clear readable, and matching copy would "most likely be accepted".  Are you saying that someone who follows Carnival's very specific instructions regarding copies of BC's  could be turned away?  It is hard to think this would be at the whim of each individual port.   

 

If it is clear, readable and matching then it meets Carnival's specific instructions. Having not seen the document in question @Ferry_Watcher added a prudent "most likely be accepted" caveat to prevent the backlash should it not be accepted for a reason not obvious. The goal of every check in agent is to get every passenger onboard, as is the goal of the cruise line. They will do everything in their power to do that, but they can't accept anything that ultimately isn't accepted by CBP.

[Ferry_Watcher]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

What do you mean by clear readable, and matching copy would "most likely be accepted".

 

Because who can really make an absolute definitive statement about whether or not a particular document would be accepted until someone actually looks at the document - especially in this scenario where we are discussing a photocopy, and not an original.

 

For example, if we have someone show up for their closed loop cruise without the required citizenship documents, and if they are US born passengers, we give them the opportunity to contact someone at home to find the passenger's birth certificate, take a photo and electronically send it to the pier.  But the copy has to be readable, and the entire document (all 4 corners) has to be in the photo.

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, icft said:

Perhaps I have missed or misunderstood something but the OP said, " her application for passport was denied because she supplied the wrong version of birth certificate. she waited almost 2 months to tell me and then request a new copy of her birth certificate (she says they kept the other one). she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in."

 

If what she sent in to get a passport was "the wrong version" it would appear to me what she sent in is not a valid birth certificate. So how would having either the original of something that is not accepted as a birth certificate by the U.S. government or a copy of that invalid document help anything?

 

Since the OP said, "she has a photocopy of the very very beat up birth certificate she turned in" and never mentioned a photo copy of any other document I assume it is a copy of the invalid document that is under discussion.

 

But they sound like Carnival's target new cruisers and Carnival will do everything possible to get them on board so they should take what they have and hope for the best.

For a passport application a birth certificate must have the applicant's parent's names on it, which isn't the case for a birth certificate to be used for a closed loop cruise which only requires a government issued birth certificate in any form (long form, short form, small ID style, etc.). 

[sanger727]

The far more relevant issue here is that this birth certificate, that she has a copy of; wasn't accepted for her passport because it was the "wrong" birth certificate. So, likely it is also the "wrong" birth certificate for cruise travel. I'm guessing into the hospital certificate instead of the state certificate. No, you guys can show up and try but its very unlikely they will let you board.

[sparks1093]

26 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

The far more relevant issue here is that this birth certificate, that she has a copy of; wasn't accepted for her passport because it was the "wrong" birth certificate. So, likely it is also the "wrong" birth certificate for cruise travel. I'm guessing into the hospital certificate instead of the state certificate. No, you guys can show up and try but its very unlikely they will let you board.

The only "wrong" birth certificate for cruise travel is the hospital souvenir one. As long as it's issued by a government entity it's acceptable for cruising. Just guessing that the birth certificate submitted with the application for a passport was a short form certificate that didn't include the parent's names. If the photocopy is legible enough it should be accepted for the cruise (provided of course that it is the government issued one).