Curious About Tips

[jimbo5544]

24 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

This makes the most sense and best explains why Carnival does business this way. This really puts it in perspective and helped. Thanks

My posts and logic ALWAYS make sense.

[jimbo5544]

20 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

At the end of the cruise, I tell the crew, there won’t be any gratuity. But on their deathbed, they will receive total consciousness. So they got that going for them.

I am sure that would warm their inner being….starve their families, but that open communication you would offer overides all those trivial items like basic subsidence.    

[Hoosierpop]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am sure that would warm their inner being….starve their families, but that open communication you would offer overides all those trivial items like basic subsidence.    

Haha. You serious, Clark? Not sure about anyone who doesn’t know Caddyshack quotes. 

[jimbo5544]

Just now, Hoosierpop said:

Haha. You serious, Clark? Not sure about anyone who doesn’t know Caddyshack quotes. 

I was just playing along.  

[Hoosierpop]

17 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I was just playing along.  

Haha. Well done. I’m an idiot. 

[sanmarcosman]

34 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

My posts and logic ALWAYS make sense.

I know you're joking and while you may have once mentioned U.S. tax law in this matter, I was chatting with AHS who did not quote you. It is her eloquence on the topic I was thanking.

 

Other than 'the bottom line' comment above, what other details about Carnival's business reasoning to have gratuities that can be removed at will can you share. There may be more to this story and I would like to learn. Thank you

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by sanmarcosman

[mz-s]

I guess I'm struggling to understand why Carnival would have to pay US payroll taxes for ships that are not flagged in the US, on crew that are not US citizens, with a company that is not incorporated in the US.

 

I know Uncle Sam will always get his due. But what is he due here? Other than the ship docks in the US for a few hours every week, it has nothing to do with the US and Carnival makes sure of that.

Edited May 25, 2023 by mz-s

[sparks1093]

30 minutes ago, mz-s said:

I guess I'm struggling to understand why Carnival would have to pay US payroll taxes for ships that are not flagged in the US, on crew that are not US citizens, with a company that is not incorporated in the US.

 

I know Uncle Sam will always get his due. But what is he due here? Other than the ship docks in the US for a few hours every week, it has nothing to do with the US and Carnival makes sure of that.

And there are people onboard now who are not compensated by tips and I'm pretty sure they aren't subject to payroll tax. 

[Illbcruzn4life]

You guys got off to a slow start but didn’t disappoint!

 

I would have probably complained a lot sooner in regards to that cabin steward who was MIA for the better part of the week.

[jimbo5544]

13 hours ago, sanmarcosman said:

I know you're joking and while you may have once mentioned U.S. tax law in this matter, I was chatting with AHS who did not quote you. It is her eloquence on the topic I was thanking.

 

Other than 'the bottom line' comment above, what other details about Carnival's business reasoning to have gratuities that can be removed at will can you share. There may be more to this story and I would like to learn. Thank you

 

One need look no further than how the business model works, how the industry works and the facts ties to tipping.  Above all else there is simple no reason to change it, it works it is engrained in the American model and belief in regards to gratuities in the hospitality business.  I have never seen statistics on who tip (% wise), who pulls tips and who significantly adds to the recommended amounts,  As in most things in life cash is king and to change the recommended, commonly accepted plan would be close to untenable.  

 

Tipping for the 3 big positions on a cruise are obviously part of the compensation package.  Why people get dragged into whether it all goes to workers always makes me laugh.  Look at the cruise lines which say no tipping and tell me whaat they do anyway.  

 

Removing at will is a debatable statement, I have seen it challenged WAY more than done in the past.   

Edited May 26, 2023 by jimbo5544

[momof3cruisers]

22 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Not sure about that. Gross income isn't what is taxed. Expenses etc are subtracted before you arrive at net income.

 

A different situation, but in many states it is illegal for employers to keep any employee gratuities so they would have to be kept separate from other funds.

Yep. I misspoke. Payroll taxes for the crew, not income taxes. 

[momof3cruisers]

7 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

You guys got off to a slow start but didn’t disappoint!

 

I would have probably complained a lot sooner in regards to that cabin steward who was MIA for the better part of the week.

Well, I really didn’t want him to get in trouble and kept hoping he’d step up his game. 

[Illbcruzn4life]

6 hours ago, momof3cruisers said:

Well, I really didn’t want him to get in trouble and kept hoping he’d step up his game. 

I totally understand that. Id be the same way but my kettle boils fast and then all bets are off.

 

seems like he was setting you up from the get go with no business card and then never around. I haven’t had but one bad steward in all my years of cruising so its very rare you find a bad apple.

 

Doesn't sound like he will be around long if he stays the course he is on. 

[Lee Cruiser]

23 hours ago, mz-s said:

I guess I'm struggling to understand why Carnival would have to pay US payroll taxes for ships that are not flagged in the US, on crew that are not US citizens, with a company that is not incorporated in the US.

I certainly can't answer all these questions, but isn't Carnival's headquarters in Miami?

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

I certainly can't answer all these questions, but isn't Carnival's headquarters in Miami?

 

They have an office in Miami, but the company is HQ'ed in Panama and actually each ship is owned by a different corporation and most of their ships are flagged in the Bahamas. All set up to avoid taxes and regulations as much as possible obviously. And who can blame them - who among us pays a dime more than we have to?

 

I don't buy that the reason they are sticking with gratuities is for tax implications though. It's merely to shift a significant portion of their payroll expenses directly to the customer's head.

[AHS123]

55 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

 each ship is owned by a different corporation

This is not true

[mz-s]

8 minutes ago, AHS123 said:

This is not true

 

I confess I have no facts to back it up so it could in fact be false. It's something I read on here at some point and just took it as truth. Shame on me for spreading things without sources as though they are fact, and thanks for calling me on it.

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I confess I have no facts to back it up so it could in fact be false. It's something I read on here at some point and just took it as truth. Shame on me for spreading things without sources as though they are fact, and thanks for calling me on it.

It could just be you misremembered. All Carnival Cruise Line ships are owned by Carnival Cruise Line, a separate and distinct Corporate entity than Carnival Corp. All of the other cruise lines under the Carnival Corp umbrella similarly own their own ships and their own subordinate corporation. 

[dallasdan]

3 hours ago, mz-s said:

I don't buy that the reason they are sticking with gratuities is for tax implications though. It's merely to shift a significant portion of their payroll expenses directly to the customer's head.

This is exactly why it is so frustrating seeing the line of people removing their tips.  I don't know what the crew get paid, but I wonder if the tips is a majority of the pay.

[mz-s]

2 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

This is exactly why it is so frustrating seeing the line of people removing their tips.  I don't know what the crew get paid, but I wonder if the tips is a majority of the pay.

 

In any line of work where tips or gratuities are the custom, they know a certain number of people just won't. It's built in to the system.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It could just be you misremembered. All Carnival Cruise Line ships are owned by Carnival Cruise Line, a separate and distinct Corporate entity than Carnival Corp. All of the other cruise lines under the Carnival Corp umbrella similarly own their own ships and their own subordinate corporation. 

I’m not sure about that. Most are pledged as collateral. The individual cruise lines are the operator of the ships under their brand.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, dallasdan said:

This is exactly why it is so frustrating seeing the line of people removing their tips.  I don't know what the crew get paid, but I wonder if the tips is a majority of the pay.

I think sad. 

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, dallasdan said:

This is exactly why it is so frustrating seeing the line of people removing their tips.  I don't know what the crew get paid, but I wonder if the tips is a majority of the pay.

 

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

In any line of work where tips or gratuities are the custom, they know a certain number of people just won't. It's built in to the system.

I don't know of anyone who claims to know there is a long line of people removing tips has ever confirmed that is the case. Even if it were only 5% on a 3000 passenger ship it would have to be 150 people.

Tips may be a large part of their pay and the cruise line has statistics to know what that typically is. As for them being paid a pittance, after I pay income tax-federal and state, sales tax, property tax, Soc Sec tax, medicare tax, and a few others, my pay isn't too great either.

[serene56]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:48 AM, sparks1093 said:

 

Actually this is a question that Heald has answered numerous times and it is always that the employee keeps any extra tip. If a customer removes the tips and tips in cash it is my understanding they have to turn that in (and again, that's something discerned from reading a lot). Carnival is transparent at the "point of sale" for anyone who wants to know and removing tips because of lack of transparency is one of the silliest reasons I've heard for doing that. That's like saying "I'm not going to leave a tip for my waitress because I don't know who gets a share of it". 

Staff gets to keep all tips.   If paid in hand or through auto grats taking out of your account.     The staff turns it in to go into their accounts.    They do not pool the tips.     The only staff that gets pooled tips are those who work the lido deck.    These may be your dining room wait staff or people learning the ropes.       Sorry John heald I believe that many people take their tips off and pay nothing.   Just look at the line at guest services the last night 

[coffeeboy77]

I have always pre paid the auto gratuities, but I am now re-thinking this.  I find it interesting they would add 18 % gratuities when you book specialty restaurants and drinks, far in advance of receiving the service.  Despite pre paying this gratuity in good faith, when the bill comes there is a line for “additional gratuity”.  Why do they prompt for this when you have pre paid?  Very aggressive.  I have found the food and service received to be excellent quite often, but occasionally only average.  How do you differentiate if you’re pre-paying gratuities? I can understand why some would remove the gratuities and tip a cash amount to those that give excellent services.  Management would then have to be trusted to properly compensate and esteem the behind the scenes staff.