Definition of Arrival (in Port)

[KillerSnake]

What is the definition of Arrival in Port?

 

Is it crossing some arbitrary line on the chart? Then still an hour more before the first mooring line is cast

 

Or is it when the crew is able to secure the first mooring line? Or when it starts the spin and side slide into the

berth?

[CruiserBruce]

Most cruise lines seem to indicate on their schedules when the ship will be tied to the dock as arrival time.

[Hlitner]

Not sure there is an actual definition, but when looking at a cruise ship schedule it it the time when the ship finishes mooring at the pier or is in position (usually with anchor deployed) at its tender location.  In the case of the latter, there are some tender ports where a ship cannot drop its anchor and will simply maintain a set position using thrusters .

 

Once a ship has arrived, there is usually an additional wait until the vessel has been cleared by local authorities.

 

Hank

[Szt]

I believe the above post is correct. Once a ship is moored, or on the case of tenders, in position, and at a full stop- that is the arrival time. But there is still much to do before passengers can disembark. 
if it is tendered, I believe the tenders are owned and managed by the dock, not the ship. So they have to get to the ship. The ship has to “clear” first before anyone can step foot off. It’s not like the ship just sits there doing nothing. If you look out onto the pier there is a frenzy of activity. 
If there are early shore excursions they get those off first. 
Always allow at least an hour after the arrival time before you will actually be allowed to disembark. 2 hours if it’s a tendered port. 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, KillerSnake said:

What is the definition of Arrival in Port?

 

Is it crossing some arbitrary line on the chart? Then still an hour more before the first mooring line is cast

 

Or is it when the crew is able to secure the first mooring line? Or when it starts the spin and side slide into the

berth?

 

There is no definitive definition, as it depends on the type of ship, probably the company and whether considering an operational or pax perspective.

 

For arrival time in the ship's logbook, for docking we used the time the ship was secured 4 & 2  fwd and aft. That means 4 headlines & 2 backsprings at fwd mooring and 4 sternlines & 2 fwdsprings at aft mooring. We still put out additional lines, but with 4 & 2 we were considered secure.

 

When anchoring, when we were brought up to the anchor was considered the arrival time.

 

From a pax perspective, I consider it the actual time I can proceed ashore. However, when a cruise line publishes a port ETA, I am always cognisant that the "E" stands for estimated, as a number of variables are present, many of which are outside the Master's control.

 

 

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, Szt said:

I believe the above post is correct. Once a ship is moored, or on the case of tenders, in position, and at a full stop- that is the arrival time. But there is still much to do before passengers can disembark. 
if it is tendered, I believe the tenders are owned and managed by the dock, not the ship. So they have to get to the ship. The ship has to “clear” first before anyone can step foot off. It’s not like the ship just sits there doing nothing. If you look out onto the pier there is a frenzy of activity. 
If there are early shore excursions they get those off first. 
Always allow at least an hour after the arrival time before you will actually be allowed to disembark. 2 hours if it’s a tendered port. 

In our experience "port arrival time" has been when the ship is moored at the pier or at position at the tender point.  Depending on port of call, the time for a ship to clear for disembarkation is typically 30 minutes or so, but that can certainly vary.  We have never experienced a disembarkation delay as long as 2 hours in a tendered port.  However, it may take that long to tender all of the passengers in queue. We try to avoid tender ports as a result.

 

Most of the "clearing" activity is paperwork that is typically electronically conveyed and confirmed.  Much of the activity on the pier will relate to tour operators or shuttle vehicles and the like, ship photographers and musicians, or in some cases provisions being ready to be boarded.  In some ports, the tenders are provided by local operators but they can also be ship based craft.  We have experienced both - ex.: port based in Grand Cayman, ship based in Maui.

 

And to add, "port departure time" is the time the ship actually casts off their lines - or hauls anchor if set at a tender point - to commence departure.  Most cruise lines have an "all on board" of at least 30 minutes prior to this or one risks being left behind.  Seen that happen many times - but that is discussion for another thread.

Edited August 23, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[K32682]

My definition of arrival in port is when I can get off the boat.

[donaldsc]

Does it really matter.  You are there when you are there.

 

DON

[ldubs]

Some folks like to watch as the ship enters a port area.  I can see how knowing the meaning of arrival in port would be nice to know.   

[KillerSnake]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Does it really matter.  You are there when you are there.

 

For one port, Yes.  The timing is important.  We have alternatives but we are trying to attend a church service on the given day as that given day is our 40th Anniversary. We thought attending would be nice but the port arrival time, drive time and service start time make the timing tight.  The bonus is the sister of one the ladies we attend church with here, lives in that port city and attends the church in that port. So it is kind of like knowing someone already.

[KillerSnake]

THIS HAS BEEN ANSWERED.  NO NEED FOR ANY FURTHER REPLIES.

 

Thank you.

[zqvol]

9 hours ago, Szt said:

I believe the above post is correct. Once a ship is moored, or on the case of tenders, in position, and at a full stop- that is the arrival time. But there is still much to do before passengers can disembark. 
if it is tendered, I believe the tenders are owned and managed by the dock, not the ship. So they have to get to the ship. The ship has to “clear” first before anyone can step foot off. It’s not like the ship just sits there doing nothing. If you look out onto the pier there is a frenzy of activity. 
If there are early shore excursions they get those off first. 
Always allow at least an hour after the arrival time before you will actually be allowed to disembark. 2 hours if it’s a tendered port. 

Those times are woefully incorrect. You can generally expect to be able t get off the ship within 15 minutes of arrival time. All that other stuff is taken into account when setting arrival time.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

There is no definitive definition, as it depends on the type of ship, probably the company and whether considering an operational or pax perspective.

 

For arrival time in the ship's logbook, for docking we used the time the ship was secured 4 & 2  fwd and aft. That means 4 headlines & 2 backsprings at fwd mooring and 4 sternlines & 2 fwdsprings at aft mooring. We still put out additional lines, but with 4 & 2 we were considered secure.

 

When anchoring, when we were brought up to the anchor was considered the arrival time.

 

From a pax perspective, I consider it the actual time I can proceed ashore. However, when a cruise line publishes a port ETA, I am always cognisant that the "E" stands for estimated, as a number of variables are present, many of which are outside the Master's control.

 

 

This is our definition of "all fast" for most cargo ships in the US.  "Arrival" is when the ship reaches the pilot buoy, or the pilot arrives onboard.

 

As you say, for a passenger, it would be the "all fast" time, when the ship is moored and the gangway is out.

[leaveitallbehind]

4 hours ago, KillerSnake said:

THIS HAS BEEN ANSWERED.  NO NEED FOR ANY FURTHER REPLIES.

 

Thank you.

Even though you have your question answered, others may want to continue this discussion for points of their own.  It - as with all threads on these boards - will find its own life cycle.  You can just choose to not participate.

 

By the way, although not likely what you intended, all capitals suggest yelling.

 

Enjoy your cruise and hope your timing in port works out for your plans.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

This is our definition of "all fast" for most cargo ships in the US.  "Arrival" is when the ship reaches the pilot buoy, or the pilot arrives onboard.

 

As you say, for a passenger, it would be the "all fast" time, when the ship is moored and the gangway is out.

 

We used a little different terminology.

 

For departure, we recorded it as being the last line let go, at which time the Nav Lights were lit, and the Ensign lowed at the stern and raised at the Gaff. Upon dropping the pilot and reaching open sea, we rang Full Away, which considered was full away on passage.

 

On arrival, we had to provide 24 hrs notice of Stand-by Engines, which was considered arrival on passage. We couldn't make the first speed reduction until on S/B and if we went early it cost the Bridge a case of beer. Taking a round turn, noted by the Engineers also cost us a case of beer. F/A and S/B had to be at 0, 6, 12, 18 ...... mins, as we had to calculate the time on passage and average speed. The arrival time was as I noted previously 4&2 F/A. At that time, nav lights were extinguished, the Ensign lowered from the Gaff and raised at the stern. All fast was when we were finished securing lines, which would be 8 & 4 F and A.

 

With P&O, especially the cadet training ship and the pax ships, the operation was very traditional, in certain respects very similar to navy ops.

[Host Kat]

7 hours ago, KillerSnake said:

THIS HAS BEEN ANSWERED.  NO NEED FOR ANY FURTHER REPLIES.

 

Thank you.

 

@KillerSnake

 

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[jsn55]

I get up early and watch us come into port from the balcony.  When the ship is tied up, I consider that we have arrived.  The timing of any planned activity rides on many factors, always best to err on the side of caution or run the risk of ruined plans.  One indicator is comparing the time the ship 'arrives' and the start time of the first ship's shore excursion; people who plan this stuff are usually fairly accurate.  

[Szt]

15 hours ago, zqvol said:

Those times are woefully incorrect. You can generally expect to be able t get off the ship within 15 minutes of arrival time. All that other stuff is taken into account when setting arrival time.

That is often true. But you can’t rely on it when planning. Safest to allow more time. I’ve been on ships that tender all the shore excursion passengers first. 

[jsn55]

2 hours ago, Szt said:

That is often true. But you can’t rely on it when planning. Safest to allow more time. I’ve been on ships that tender all the shore excursion passengers first. 

So true!  NCL's Epic holds more than 4K pax and we tender at Cannes France in October.  I cannot imagine how long it will take to actually set foot on the tender pier.  We booked a ship's excursion so we have a decent chance of getting on one of the first tenders.  I've never been on a ship this large, and am looking forward to observing how Epic handles all those people!  Part of my enjoyment of a cruise is observing all the logistics and marvelling at how well (or not) the crew handles everything.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, jsn55 said:

So true!  NCL's Epic holds more than 4K pax and we tender at Cannes France in October.  I cannot imagine how long it will take to actually set foot on the tender pier.  We booked a ship's excursion so we have a decent chance of getting on one of the first tenders.  I've never been on a ship this large, and am looking forward to observing how Epic handles all those people!  Part of my enjoyment of a cruise is observing all the logistics and marvelling at how well (or not) the crew handles everything.

The good news about Cannes is that the tender distance is quite reasonable.  The bad news is that there are no shore based tenders so you will rely on only ship tenders, which is not ideal with 4000 souls.  It is one reason, if many, while we prefer smaller ships (we are now on a vessel with 400 passengers).  On our ship there is no need for tender tickets, priority or queues.

 

Since you booked a ship excursion you will be given a meeting place (usually a lounge) and a reporting time.  You have no control and will simply follow instructions and likely go ashore as a group.

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, jsn55 said:

So true!  NCL's Epic holds more than 4K pax and we tender at Cannes France in October.  I cannot imagine how long it will take to actually set foot on the tender pier.  We booked a ship's excursion so we have a decent chance of getting on one of the first tenders.  I've never been on a ship this large, and am looking forward to observing how Epic handles all those people!  Part of my enjoyment of a cruise is observing all the logistics and marvelling at how well (or not) the crew handles everything.

And yet the Captain of the NCL Prima at least 1000+ passengers less than the NCL Epic says we can not tender in Isafjordur because there are too many passengers.

[jsn55]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

And yet the Captain of the NCL Prima at least 1000+ passengers less than the NCL Epic says we can not tender in Isafjordur because there are too many passengers.

You mean you're there and can't enjoy the port???  Sounds like a real mess to me; if the ship offers a port, one would assume that you will actually visit that port, no?

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, jsn55 said:

You mean you're there and can't enjoy the port???  Sounds like a real mess to me; if the ship offers a port, one would assume that you will actually visit that port, no?

No, the port is on the posted itinerary, but the ship has not gone there on any of its cruises! They either have an extra sea day like we did (our original itinerary had 8 ports and 2 sea days, but we ended up with 6 and 4) or on some cruises I have read they spent an extra day at another Iceland port. If you call the NCL 800 number for excursions, they will sell an excursion there as they always seem to cancel the port late in the process.

Edited August 25, 2023 by ontheweb

[MBP&O2/O]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:33 AM, Heidi13 said:

There is no definitive definition, as it depends on the type of ship, probably the company and whether considering an operational or pax perspective.

 

For arrival time in the ship's logbook, for docking we used the time the ship was secured 4 & 2  fwd and aft. That means 4 headlines & 2 backsprings at fwd mooring and 4 sternlines & 2 fwdsprings at aft mooring. We still put out additional lines, but with 4 & 2 we were considered secure.

 

When anchoring, when we were brought up to the anchor was considered the arrival time.

 

Agree with that. We had, with BP,  an EOP .... end of passage time. This was when we went on to 'stand by' ... .

Berthing was usually 321 ... dependent on circumstances of course....unless ot course it was a Sea Berth at Umm Said ot Jebel Dhanna 😵‍💫.... deep joy ... you could sometimes see the land on a good day.🙄

 

 

[jsn55]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

No, the port is on the posted itinerary, but the ship has not gone there on any of its cruises! They either have an extra sea day like we did (our original itinerary had 8 ports and 2 sea days, but we ended up with 6 and 4) or on some cruises I have read they spent an extra day at another Iceland port. If you call the NCL 800 number for excursions, they will sell an excursion there as they always seem to cancel the port late in the process.

That's quite ridiculous ... a new low for cruiseline communication.  Diversions due to weather or other problems are one thing, but this lack of port access is something they obviously know all about.  For our upcoming Epic cruise, I'll have to put on my 'no expectations' hat before boarding.