Is The Chair Hogging Dilemma Unsolvable?

[EJL2023]

20 minutes ago, Vertygo said:

I didn’t say “signs”, just one. Make it a small sign if you wish.

From the discussion it sounds like more than a few people hogging or else it wouldn’t be a problem.

The key is enforcement. If O can monitor shoes in restaurants they can certainly monitor chairs.

Oh no, you are in trouble now making another comment about the,shoes!!! 

[schmerl]

18 hours ago, mnocket said:

I said enough loungers to satisfy demand, not one per pax. Regent seems to have enough to satisfy demand - which is far less than one per pax. They just don't have enough in the shade. Hence a shortage - hence hoarding (i.e. chair hogs).  My point is you're always going to have a problem with chair hogs as long as demand exceeds supply. 

 

That's the issue we had on Riviera. There were plenty of chairs and MANY more on the sun deck above. The problem was finding a chair in the shade. 

[shepherd really]

26 minutes ago, EJL2023 said:

Oh no, you are in trouble now making another comment about the,shoes!!! 

I've never been booted for not wearing shoes, never been shooed away for wearing boots, however my wife once wore Nikes to Red Ginger, but I managed to sneak 'er in anyway. 

 

I just want a consistent policy, not all this flip flopping.

Edited December 27, 2023 by shepherd really

[mnocket]

6 hours ago, d9704011 said:

No, I do not disagree; how do you propose balancing the supply/demand given the boundary conditions of available space?

Well, I think some of the smaller, luxury lines, with more space per passenger come close to meeting demand. In fact during my pre-pandemic cruise in MSC's Yacht Club, I don't remember there ever being a problem. Granted that was a Caribbean cruise and there were many port days - so maybe not a fair assessment. 

 

However, when it comes to the mass-market lines with multiple 1,000's of passengers, it may not be possible. It would take a significant redesign of the pool deck(s). This probably isn't a high revenue generating area and so there's little incentive for cruise lines dedicate more real estate to it. Plus, such a design would limit the ships to warm weather itineraries. 

 

So I  guess, for mass market lines, if having supply meet demand is the only surefire solution to lounge hogs, maybe as OP opines - it is an unsolvable problem 🤔  Still I'd like to see a cruise line make an effort to redesign their pool deck to increase the supply of loungers. That would certainly be a customer friendly change!

[jazznruby]

13 minutes ago, schmerl said:

 

That's the issue we had on Riviera. There were plenty of chairs and MANY more on the sun deck above. The problem was finding a chair in the shade. 

Of course, would be added expense which O doesn't want to incur at this particular time, but what about adding those individual, moveable canopies to the chaise lounges that would allow one to sit in full or partial sun? Personally, I prefer the deck above the pool, and love the sun, but having that option would be great! And maybe help to solve the problem??

[pinotlover]

6 hours ago, Vallesan said:

I would HATE to sail Oceania with “LARGE SIGNS”. Most people don’t disrespect the loungers. 
I sail Oceania for its ‘small’ ship atmosphere and would hate for it to turn into the same ideology as a ‘humungous ship’!

Begrudgingly agreed. People won’t read Currents. Won’t listen to CD announcements. Won’t read T& Cs. 
 

Put up a large sign, they won’t read it. Case in point is the large sign Oceania put up about facial recognition and doing temperature checks. How could people miss it. Oblivious to the Nth. There’s nothing to do with the Speeecciall guest. 

[SSFrance69]

 

[cswhistler]

My husband showed up in one red boat shoe and one blue one for dinner (had another matching pair under the bed) the GDR staff had a great laugh at this. Only proved we are all human!

All in good taste will work, no need to worry.

[rbtan]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:36 AM, d9704011 said:

Enforce chair use, enforce dress codes, enforce, enforce, enforce.  I'm pretty sure cruise lines have given up on confronting pigheaded, selfish, entitled cruisers who are not at all disposed to following the simplest of rules, policies or 'suggestions' if they don't suit them.

Perhaps the lines need to start banning pax who behave this way. First off ban the word "suggested". Some Pax seem to act like petulant children when they can't behave in a civilized manner & follow suggested rules & behaviors.

[d9704011]

Just now, rbtan said:

Perhaps the lines need to start banning pax who behave this way.

That's the spirit!  Let's not forget the evil villains who haven't yet figured out the purpose of hand-washing locations too.

[rbtan]

10 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

That's the spirit!  Let's not forget the evil villains who haven't yet figured out the purpose of hand-washing locations too.

Remember the restart after the bug? If you didn't wash your hands you were frequently called out by staff as well as fellow pax.

[Waltershipman]

5 minutes ago, rbtan said:

Never seen sneakers banned. I guess as long as they are nice & clean. Open toed sandals always seem a bone of contention.

Excellent thanks so much

[lj77346]

Chair hogging can be viewed as sort of a "tragedy of the commons" issue.  In the context of deck chairs, if a number of people enjoy unconstrained access to a finite resource, such as deck chairs, they will tend to over use it and destroy its value altogether.  To exercise voluntary constraint for individuals desiring to use deck chairs is not a rational choice because if they did, other individuals would use the deck chairs and take spaces that they desire.  Thus the predictable result is a problem or at least an inconvenience for everyone.

 

Empirically, the tragedy of the commons relative to deck chairs can be observed on a cruise.  On the first day of a cruise some individuals "reserve" deck chairs by placing items on them.  Other individuals see this behavior and decide that the only way to get deck chairs in a favorable location is to "reserve" deck chairs for themselves - the problem snowballs.  As the cruise progresses, this behavior becomes widespread until demand exceeds capacity.  This occurs because the benefits of chair hogging accrue to individuals who are motivated to use deck chairs to the point that they become reliant on it (even if they plan to use the chairs for a limited time).  However, the cost of this behavior is borne by everyone who wants to use a deck chair.

 

Absent some response by Oceania to curb this behavior, the problem will persist because there is no cost associated with "reserving" a deck chair.  So, while you might expect people who pay thousands of dollars for a cruise to have some class and play nicely with others, it won't happen voluntarily as there is no consequence for selfish behavior.

 

(Wow, I really am boring.  I guess that happens to economists who try to rationalize behavior.)

[harryw]

It reads like an anthropologist observing apes in the wild.

[Waltershipman]

56 minutes ago, lj77346 said:

Chair hogging can be viewed as sort of a "tragedy of the commons" issue.  In the context of deck chairs, if a number of people enjoy unconstrained access to a finite resource, such as deck chairs, they will tend to over use it and destroy its value altogether.  To exercise voluntary constraint for individuals desiring to use deck chairs is not a rational choice because if they did, other individuals would use the deck chairs and take spaces that they desire.  Thus the predictable result is a problem or at least an inconvenience for everyone.

 

Empirically, the tragedy of the commons relative to deck chairs can be observed on a cruise.  On the first day of a cruise some individuals "reserve" deck chairs by placing items on them.  Other individuals see this behavior and decide that the only way to get deck chairs in a favorable location is to "reserve" deck chairs for themselves - the problem snowballs.  As the cruise progresses, this behavior becomes widespread until demand exceeds capacity.  This occurs because the benefits of chair hogging accrue to individuals who are motivated to use deck chairs to the point that they become reliant on it (even if they plan to use the chairs for a limited time).  However, the cost of this behavior is borne by everyone who wants to use a deck chair.

 

Absent some response by Oceania to curb this behavior, the problem will persist because there is no cost associated with "reserving" a deck chair.  So, while you might expect people who pay thousands of dollars for a cruise to have some class and play nicely with others, it won't happen voluntarily as there is no consequence for selfish behavior.

 

(Wow, I really am boring.  I guess that happens to economists who try to rationalize behavior.)

You sound really smart too part economist part psychologist great combo yet sometimes trying to figure out human behavior is beyond comprehension no matter what analytically should be true 

[d9704011]

Just now, lj77346 said:

So, while you might expect people who pay thousands of dollars for a cruise to have some class and play nicely with others

An expectation with no basis in fact.  Having the time and money to cruise says nothing about the character of the cruiser; you alluded to selfish behaviour...

[Redtravel]

When I read the thread title I questioned it.  Having sailed many times on O, never had chair hogs. That was until today. On Vista. It’s a port day.  Usually on a port day, there’s no problem finding seating by the pool.  After lunch, we thought that we would sit there. Nothing.  Not that many people out there. Everything was littered with stuff.  Asked at reception and was told that they don’t remove personal belongings.  Frustrated .

[Waltershipman]

9 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

When I read the thread title I questioned it.  Having sailed many times on O, never had chair hogs. That was until today. On Vista. It’s a port day.  Usually on a port day, there’s no problem finding seating by the pool.  After lunch, we thought that we would sit there. Nothing.  Not that many people out there. Everything was littered with stuff.  Asked at reception and was told that they don’t remove personal belongings.  Frustrated .

Indeed Will be on ship in few weeks and will likely have same experience too bad indeed. Hopefully will be able to find some shaded loungers.

[true45]

15 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

When I read the thread title I questioned it.  Having sailed many times on O, never had chair hogs. That was until today. On Vista. It’s a port day.  Usually on a port day, there’s no problem finding seating by the pool.  After lunch, we thought that we would sit there. Nothing.  Not that many people out there. Everything was littered with stuff.  Asked at reception and was told that they don’t remove personal belongings.  Frustrated .

A shame that this problem affects Oceania too.  But they have it within their power to make their pax comfortable by enforcing a reasonable no-reserve policy.   

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, Redtravel said:

When I read the thread title I questioned it.  Having sailed many times on O, never had chair hogs. That was until today. On Vista. It’s a port day.  Usually on a port day, there’s no problem finding seating by the pool.  After lunch, we thought that we would sit there. Nothing.  Not that many people out there. Everything was littered with stuff.  Asked at reception and was told that they don’t remove personal belongings.  Frustrated .

We'll be on board next week. My spouse says he won't hesitate to move stuff. He'll ask pax in the area & if no one responds it's theirs, he'll look for drinks with ice melted & make the move. We have an extended balcony in Concierge, but I hear they will not provide a lounge chair.

[jazznruby]

46 minutes ago, true45 said:

A shame that this problem affects Oceania too.  But they have it within their power to make their pax comfortable by enforcing a reasonable no-reserve policy.   

Agreed, but unfortunately, O shows no signs of willingness to do that. So...since husband and I are approaching a Carib sailing on Vista next month, we'll see for ourselves. Interesting that, in our past O warm weather cruises, it's never really been a problem. Seems that only since there've been so many Celebrity refugees (with some from other lines) has it become the problem it apparently is now. Just sayin. 🤔

[Woofa]

I wonder if in fact the best thing to do when this happens is to make sure management knows about the issue. (Either on the mid ship survey (assuming you can fill it out) or to a higher up person on board the ship.)  While I don't doubt they know it happens, they may not be aware of how many people are affected (and how big a deal it is to some people).  I know from previous topics and posts, at least sometimes O follows through and frees up chairs.  Perhaps they just need to implement that policy more regularly.

From our limited experience and all that I have read, I assume O does not want to get involved if they are not clearly in need to.

[Cruisedreamer1]

All cruise lines need to add more shade options to their lido decks. That would help immensely with the chair hog problem. Once on a Regent cruise this was a problem we just asked the pool attendant and asked him to move items. which he did.

[Tr1v1alCru1ser]

We were on Vista 17th - 30th December.  It was almost impossible to get a poolside lounger.  I spoke to one of the pool deck guys who said people were going down between 5-6am to reserve loungers.  Another guest took photos of the numerous chairs with a library book or pair of sunglasses on them and spoke to the GM, Damian LeCroix.  He was totally disinterested.  The used to remove items, but I think I read that someone has sued O when their items were removed, claiming that something valuable has gone missing.  Totally ridiculous, who would leave something valuable on a lounger and go off for hours?  

 

Another couple we spoke to said the reserved loungers next to them were empty for 4 hours, and when the people eventually turned up, they challenged them about their selfishness, and the response was “Everybody’s doing it”.

 

If O aren’t going to do anything about it, then I think it’s going to come down to us as individuals to move things, maybe take a photos showing the time when you move it, so people can’t claim they were only gone for 5 minutes.  I’ve done it before, and when challenged about the amount of time they’ve been gone, the ‘perp’ had very little to say and just went away muttering. 

[AMHuntFerry]

On our last cruise I found a nice pair of earrings on one of the bathroom floors by the sink. Now I feel bad for turning them in to lost-and-found since someone was obviously saving that sink for future use. 😉