Celebrity breach of contract.

[mom says]

Since we seem to have several attorneys on this thread, help someone not familiar with the American legal system. Can a court refuse to hear a civil case? In essence, throw it out because they deem it a frivolous suit? And aren't there sanctions levied on plaintiffs and their attorneys for filing frivolous suits?

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Not sure if you recall, but fairly recently Celebrity did away with the term Butler and replaced it with Retreat Host.  The butlers did not like the name change so it went back.  

 

The title butler must have some kind of elevated status I guess.   Anyway, my comment was in jest.  I've actually never experienced having a butler on a cruise ship or anywhere else.  I'm also among the minority on this thread who isn't a lawyer!  😀😀 

[ldubs]

7 minutes ago, jelayne said:

What determines “material”?
 

 

Don't know -- change to the product or service offered?  I just offered it as a general comment.   All that  I know of this butler service issue is what I read here.      

[CruiseRQA]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't know if it is illegal but think in general principle, any material change should result in the option of a refund.  

Is going from a butler who is assigned several cabins to a retreat team that is assigned to several more cabins a "material change"?

[CruiseRQA]

1 hour ago, mom says said:

Since we seem to have several attorneys on this thread, help someone not familiar with the American legal system. Can a court refuse to hear a civil case? In essence, throw it out because they deem it a frivolous suit? And aren't there sanctions levied on plaintiffs and their attorneys for filing frivolous suits?

Not an attorney but in a profession that is often subject to the American legal system.   The American system (IMO) is set up to benefit the plaintiff and make it as easy as possible for a citizen to get "justice" by suing and getting money    A court can throw out a truly frivolous case but that is a standard judges don't want to lower.   You can sue me and cause me to incur thousands of dollars in expenses and if I win the plaintiff gets to walk away and say "oh well".   I have not heard of sanctions levied on attorneys for this although it may happen in rare circumstances.    Again, my opinion not as an attorney but as one with experience in the American courts. 

[cruisestitch]

42 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Is going from a butler who is assigned several cabins to a retreat team that is assigned to several more cabins a "material change"?

Was going from a stateroom attendant and an assistant stateroom attendant to just the stateroom attendant a “material change”?  I remember when that happened.

[leaveitallbehind]

6 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Was going from a stateroom attendant and an assistant stateroom attendant to just the stateroom attendant a “material change”?  I remember when that happened.

....or as currently with a number of lines increasing the number of staterooms that same solo attendant is responsible for as a way to limit the total number of attendants?  Or less bartenders, or MDR staff, etc.

Edited December 28, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[CruiseRQA]

28 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Was going from a stateroom attendant and an assistant stateroom attendant to just the stateroom attendant a “material change”?  I remember when that happened.

My cabins have been maintained in the same meticulous fashion both before and after that, so "no"

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, CruiseRQA said:

Is going from a butler who is assigned several cabins to a retreat team that is assigned to several more cabins a "material change"?

 

I don't know.  Some seem to think so.   

[Cap_D]

Just FYI - The current face of the butler team is the housekeeper that cleans and has no method to communicate or coordinate with the rest of the team... that's not a butler and a lot closer to every sky suite passenger is on their own, schedule dependent, to interface with any other service or product on the ship, e.g., by waiting in lines, waiting on hold, retrieving VM messages, having to use a corded phone and not being on the balcony, retreat sundeck or anywhere except bedside or in the toilet room (but the retreat team attendant may be available to keep it clean). 

 

Setting aside the fired butler and their services, also missing seems to be the "Luminae room service breakfast menu" that is promoted with the Retreat as a stateroom amenity at time of booking a sky suite (including for the Xcel sailings in 2025-26).  Breakfast may be worth around $25-40 / per passenger, per day if it's a Luminae multi course and dish meal made to order. 

[hcat]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

The title butler must have some kind of elevated status I guess.   Anyway, my comment was in jest.  I've actually never experienced having a butler on a cruise ship or anywhere else.  I'm also among the minority on this thread who isn't a lawyer!  😀😀 

Lots of arm chair attorneys on this thread...good thing we are not opining about brain surgery!

 

Most active practiioners would not give opinions on a social website, esp outside the jurisdiction  where licensed!

[PTC DAWG]

This gets better and better…a very entertaining New Years Eve Novel.

[alexandria]

7 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

So has anyone done a PACER search? Inquiring minds want to know!

I did.  Couldn't help myself. As of 5pm today, I found nothing filed this week on PACER in the Southern District of Florida involving Royal Caribbean Group or Celebrity.  The most recent filing involving either entity was on December 22, 2023 and it is a personal injury case.  😯

 

But perhaps my PACER search skills are getting a little rusty...😉

[abbydancer2003]

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

 

 

Setting aside the fired butler and their services, also missing seems to be the "Luminae room service breakfast menu" that is promoted with the Retreat as a stateroom amenity at time of booking a sky suite (including for the Xcel sailings in 2025-26).  Breakfast may be worth around $25-40 / per passenger, per day if it's a Luminae multi course and dish meal made to order. 

There's a Luminae breakfast menu?  I've only seen the menu with egg dishes, bacon, etc.  I thought it's the same one you get in concierge or above, but it's been quite a while since I've ordered in room breakfast.

[jelayne]

3 hours ago, abbydancer said:

There's a Luminae breakfast menu?  I've only seen the menu with egg dishes, bacon, etc.  I thought it's the same one you get in concierge or above, but it's been quite a while since I've ordered in room breakfast.

There is a Retreat Breakfast RS menu.  It was in our suite last month but we don’t normally eat breakfast sonI didn’t pay much attention to it. It is showing on the app for our cruise next month.

[cruisestitch]

4 hours ago, alexandria said:

I did.  Couldn't help myself. As of 5pm today, I found nothing filed this week on PACER in the Southern District of Florida involving Royal Caribbean Group or Celebrity.  The most recent filing involving either entity was on December 22, 2023 and it is a personal injury case.  😯

 

But perhaps my PACER search skills are getting a little rusty...😉

Very interesting!  Thanks for checking!

[abbydancer2003]

7 minutes ago, jelayne said:

There is a Retreat Breakfast RS menu.  It was in our suite last month but we don’t normally eat breakfast sonI didn’t pay much attention to it. It is showing on the app for our cruise next month.

Hmm, on my cruise the app just describes it, and it starts in 2 weeks.  Maybe I'll look for it in the room.

[WestLakeGirl]

4 hours ago, alexandria said:

I did.  Couldn't help myself. As of 5pm today, I found nothing filed this week on PACER in the Southern District of Florida involving Royal Caribbean Group or Celebrity.  The most recent filing involving either entity was on December 22, 2023 and it is a personal injury case.  😯

 

But perhaps my PACER search skills are getting a little rusty...😉

Curiouser and curiouser, as they said in Alice Through the Looking Glass.  I believe you are right that something smells fishy🙄

[CruiseRQA]

5 hours ago, Cap_D said:

Just FYI - The current face of the butler team is the housekeeper that cleans and has no method to communicate or coordinate with the rest of the team... that's not a butler and a lot closer to every sky suite passenger is on their own, schedule dependent, to interface with any other service or product on the ship, e.g., by waiting in lines, waiting on hold, retrieving VM messages, having to use a corded phone and not being on the balcony, retreat sundeck or anywhere except bedside or in the toilet room (but the retreat team attendant may be available to keep it clean). 

 

 

Can you rewrite this?   Not sure what you are getting at.  

[markeb]

16 minutes ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Curiouser and curiouser, as they said in Alice Through the Looking Glass.  I believe you are right that something smells fishy🙄

 

Troll on a hacked account? Last post before Tuesday was in 2018 on Disney. Just saying...

[NMTraveller]

21 hours ago, Andy&Mary Reno said:

I am surprised by the Celebrity Cheer Squad.  So not to ruin your Day don't read  the rest of the post.

We filed today in Federal court, some of the main issue to be addressed  1)  False / misleading advertising. Failure to disclose required truth in lending disclosures.  and 4 other causes of action. The "contract" will be deemed Null & void.  You cant enforce a contract that was presented  after transaction initiated.  I will post when I get updates and as when case progresses. Other than that, Happy Cruising. stay safe.  

Good to see someone taking them to court for shady business practices.  I read the contract and find many items in it that would be thrown out in court.

[cruisestitch]

2 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Troll on a hacked account? Last post before Tuesday was in 2018 on Disney. Just saying...

Oh I hope not.  There’s so much fun to be had …..🤪

[Cap_D]

2 hours ago, abbydancer said:

Hmm, on my cruise the app just describes it, and it starts in 2 weeks.  Maybe I'll look for it in the room.

Based on what I've seen - The Retreat Room Service menu featured in the app for this week's sailings has the same Premium Breakfast menu as is featured in the "Room Service" section.  Nothing about it being from Luminae and no similarity to the Luminae breakfast menu also available on the app. 

[bikerunner]

As much as i can do suites i dont,  dont see value for myself and travelmate.  I also understand the service expected.  Been mentioned i worked and ran hotels some higher end, ritz.  What is the end game here.  The main thing in suites is or how i see it is larger room and retreat amenities.   All others are secondary.  From what i have seen and heard on boards most dont even utilize w butler in anyway.  Snall rhings sure but stateroom attendant can get it done.  Yes not going to say or omit the few who appreciate the extra service, they expect it.  But what does one expect from a suite, dont care what cruise offers not the question.   You in a suite.  What are you expecting.   Has it gone missing from what the cruiseline offers.  To me a suite lvl room is no different from any other level room but gives you extra areas to go to and extra room.  So butler does not deliver breakfast but roomservice does.   Laundry taken by stateroom attendant not butler    Yes i know some small detals now are lacking overall.  But once  away from small details did you enjoy time away.  Maybe this id a class thing, people who are use to be handed things hand over foot,   Do i expect to be blastef by people on this post yep.  I do understand the positon of the lawsuit.  Also think its hilarous but in truth i do agree in more upfront clarity.  

[hcat]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:15 AM, Andy&Mary Reno said:

I am surprised by the Celebrity Cheer Squad.  So not to ruin your Day don't read  the rest of the post.

We filed today in Federal court, some of the main issue to be addressed  1)  False / misleading advertising. Failure to disclose required truth in lending disclosures.  and 4 other causes of action. The "contract" will be deemed Null & void.  You cant enforce a contract that was presented  after transaction initiated.  I will post when I get updates and as when case progresses. Other than that, Happy Cruising. stay safe.  

What fed ct did you file in?  

Curious to hear how it progresses, motions etc..Any thoughts of Class Action?