NEWS FLASH: HAL to favor Triples and Quads

[crystalspin]

2 hours ago, BigBee51 said:

We are booked on the Koningsdam in Vista Suite 5122 for a 35 day cruise. There is no symbol in the PDF floor plan on HAL's website. But the booking page does indicate it sleeps up to 4 guests.

The "booking page" must be displaying boiler-plate description for all Vista Suites. 5122 is not a triple or quad (what is that, a couple? a double?).  This pic is directly from the HAL deckplan. On the port side: 5100,5102, 5118, & 5120 are triples; 5110 is a quad. The remainders are doubles. On the starboard, the same equivalents. The deckplan is correct and the "booking page" is misleading. 

Edited March 23 by crystalspin

[YourWorldWithBill]

3 hours ago, BigBee51 said:

Not necessarily true.  We are booked on the Koningsdam in Vista Suite 5122 for a 35 day cruise. There is no symbol in the PDF floor plan on HAL's website. But the booking page does indicate it sleeps up to 4 guests. Not sure where 4 people would fit. There is a couch but no indication that it is a pull-out and two beds that convert to a queen.

But I suspect that the new policy might not apply to Vista suites, Signature S, or Neptune S. I can't imagine them moving someone out of a suite; even if offering an upgrade, I would hope they'd ask.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

On 3/20/2024 at 4:28 PM, Skorpora said:

Sounds like the beancounter who dreamed this up didn't think it through. 

This is happening in so many areas that I think it should replace ‘Savour The Journey’ as HAL’s slogan.

[POA1]

3 hours ago, crystalspin said:

what is that, a couple?

It's a double. The solo rooms on the Pinnacle Class ships are singles. The rooms that sleep three are triples.

 

I think that the ones that sleep 4 should be called "home runs."

 

Also, if you are going to have a "sleeper sofa," why don't they call the other kind a "sitter sofa?"

 

 

Edited March 23 by POA1

[crystalspin]

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

Also, if you are going to have a "sleeper sofa," why don't they call the other kind a "sitter sofa?"

That is my term, from here forward!

[richwmn]

If I might go back to Lifeboat Capacity for a moment. Here is a picture of the capacity label on the tender I rode today from Volendam.

 

 

Note that as a lifeboat the capacity is 150. There are 16 lifeboats on Volendam for a capacity of 2400. Volendam's capacity with all triples and quads full is 1718 and crew compliment is 647 so the total is 2375 so the Lifeboat capacity alone will cover the full passenger compliment and crew. As someone mentioned, any lifeboat or lifeboats may not be able to deploy, so the rafts should cover that situation. In addition, I don't believe I have ever seen a HAL ship filled to full upper berth capacity. Very few cabins have 3 or 4 passengers and all HAL ships carry quite a few solo cruisers.

 

[kazu]

3 hours ago, richwmn said:

In addition, I don't believe I have ever seen a HAL ship filled to full upper berth capacity. Very few cabins have 3 or 4 passengers and all HAL ships carry quite a few solo cruisers.

 

 

I have.  I was on Koningsdam over Christmas and New Year’s in 2022-2023.  At sail away the CD announced the number on board and it was MORE than what is listed as the K’s capacity. Koningsdam’s passenger capacity is listed as 2650.  There were 2900 on board on one segment and IIRC 2800 on the next segment.  I guess the ship made up for it with fewer crew.  Instead of 1025 crew, there were 795

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I have.  I was on Koningsdam over Christmas and New Year’s in 2022-2023.  At sail away the CD announced the number on board and it was MORE than what is listed as the K’s capacity. Koningsdam’s passenger capacity is listed as 2650.  There were 2900 on board on one segment and IIRC 2800 on the next segment.  I guess the ship made up for it with fewer crew.  Instead of 1025 crew, there were 795

 

 

 

If crew numbers are lower than "full," then passengers shouldn't be so much higher than "full."

 

[TiogaCruiser]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I have.  I was on Koningsdam over Christmas and New Year’s in 2022-2023.  At sail away the CD announced the number on board and it was MORE than what is listed as the K’s capacity. Koningsdam’s passenger capacity is listed as 2650.  There were 2900 on board on one segment and IIRC 2800 on the next segment.  I guess the ship made up for it with fewer crew.  Instead of 1025 crew, there were 795

 

 

Not much freeboard on that sailing, right?

[RedIguana]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I have.  I was on Koningsdam over Christmas and New Year’s in 2022-2023.  At sail away the CD announced the number on board and it was MORE than what is listed as the K’s capacity. Koningsdam’s passenger capacity is listed as 2650.  There were 2900 on board on one segment and IIRC 2800 on the next segment.  I guess the ship made up for it with fewer crew.  Instead of 1025 crew, there were 795

 

 

The 2650 capacity is for double occupancy, considered 100%. Max capacity is often 115-120%, with RCL Icon having a max capacity of a whopping 135%. Wiki lists Koningsdam as max passenger and crew at 4,173, with a crew of 1,036. So max passengers at 3,137, roughly 118% of double occupancy.

Edited March 23 by RedIguana
Autocorrect thinks the ship is not Koningsdam, but mining dam

[0106]

This info is from the company that built the Nieuw Statendam and the Koningsdam.  https://www.fincantieri.com/globalassets/prodotti-servizi/navi-da-crociera/holland-america-line/scheda-cruise_c-02-19_koningsdam-nieuwstatendam_275x225_web.pdf
 

I hope we don’t get to the point where these ships sail with 4173 maximum persons on board.

[kazu]

58 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Not much freeboard on that sailing, right?

 

I did not realize it was a kids sail free promo until too late 😢 

 

600 children one one over 500 on the other.  No thanks.  Lesson learned.

[kazu]

37 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

The 2650 capacity is for double occupancy, considered 100%. Max capacity is often 115-120%, with RCL Icon having a max capacity of a whopping 135%. Wiki lists Koningsdam as max passenger and crew at 4,173, with a crew of 1,036. So max passengers at 3,137, roughly 118% of double occupancy.

 

thanks.  I just went by the number listed.  In any case, 2900 was too many IMO.  At least, for me.  The lineup to the MDR was unbelievable.  I had booked relatively late and happy to find CO available and used it.  There were no families in CO so I guess that’s one thing they weren’t spending money on.

[coolbluegreenseas]

On 3/21/2024 at 7:40 PM, cbr663 said:

 

We are empty nesters so travel just as a couple yet I can tell you that I have siblings and lots of relatives who travel with their adult children.  All cram everyone into one cabin and one hotel room.

All while sharing one bathroom? That does not sound like a vacation but a test in patience.

[Sea Hag]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:34 PM, KAKcruiser said:

I was just looking at a travel agent website and it would only show me cabins available for 2 on the Koningsdam in the Caribbean March 2026.  Anything for 3 or 4 was not shown.  Then I went to the HAL website and it was the same thing.  They must be serious about this.  

They probably might still be working on this, but for the cruise I booked the other day (through an agent on the phone for a quad on deck 10 of the Noordam for the two of us) I still see nearly all those quad cabins available for a party of two. I'll try that again in a few days and see what I see then.

[Sea Hag]

18 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

This is happening in so many areas that I think it should replace ‘Savour The Journey’ as HAL’s slogan.

"Beware the beancounter?" That has a nice ring to it.

[coolbluegreenseas]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:01 PM, ChinaShrek said:

I realized that my comment was silly after I typed it. I don't like the Mega ships that offer these things but if HAL is serious about attracting younger cliental who knows what they will do.

Or perhaps, with a little imagination, HAL should go the Virgin route and make their cruises kid free.

 

I stay away from ships that cater to families as children can negatively impact any given experience or vacation. Right now, HAL markets to older, more affluent adults, but if that changes, so will my choices. 

[ChinaShrek]

7 minutes ago, coolbluegreenseas said:

Or perhaps, with a little imagination, HAL should go the Virgin route and make their cruises kid free.

 

I stay away from ships that cater to families as children can negatively impact any given experience or vacation. Right now, HAL markets to older, more affluent adults, but if that changes, so will my choices. 

Does Virgin have casinos?

[coolbluegreenseas]

On 3/22/2024 at 5:05 PM, oakridger said:

I sometimes sail in a Signature Suite (on non-Pinnacle ships) as a solo.  I will be pretty ticked off if that is no longer an option!  My next two sailings are in veranda cabins so shouldn't be a problem.  

 

I've already been looking at smaller ships in general to avoid crowds and have booked on Windstar for 2025.  It will be interesting to see how things play out.

 

~Nancy

I sailed Windstar in the South Pacific during August of 2023. It was one of the sailing vessels and you actually get to know people. Also, you need to be able to entertain yourself (I read 6 books). You know you are on a ship and not a floating hotel. This is why I came back to HAL as the largest vessels are still relatively small in comparison to the RCCL monsters. Full transparency: I looked at Windstar during the period I wanted, but couldn’t get it to line up.

 

I suspect you’ll like it.

[coolbluegreenseas]

25 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Does Virgin have casinos?

I think so. I don’t use the casinos so it is not something I take into consideration. I will tell you I was looking at Virgin, but I couldn’t get the dates to line up. I had a very specific period in mind that is close to my birthday but still a shoulder season period. Overall, I liked HAL the last time I boarded and I am sure I will this time, too.

[coolbluegreenseas]

Honestly, I do not think CCL has any idea what to do with HAL. The low entry line, Carnival appeals to families and budget minded tourists. The upper end cruise line, Seabourn, captures the attention of more affluent, more luxury minded cruisers. Where does this leave HAL? The business people clearly do not know. Why they don’t pivot to an adult only line that attracts couples or groups who are childfree or not interested in traveling with children is perplexing. DINKs (Dual Income, No Kids) have money and time to travel.

 

You’re welcome, CCL.

[Marelaine]

This is not a dirty little HAL secret. The two other cruise lines that I have sailed do the same thing. When shopping for cruises for two passengers during early booking, they only show the cabins for two. As the lower occupancy cabins sell, they open up the higher occupancy cabins to all. I test this by making dummy bookings for three or four. Voila! Those cabins with three or four births open up. I call my TA and tell him which cabin I want and have never been denied.

 

Why they do this? The cabin price is the same whether there are one, two, three, or four passengers. But the bars, casinos, gift shops, specialty restaurants, and excursions make more money on the higher occupancy cabins. Also, they can’t put four passengers in a cabin for two. 
 

I wonder if the Upgrade Fairy might make an offer to you if she really wanted your cabin for someone else.

[TRLD]

18 hours ago, richwmn said:

If I might go back to Lifeboat Capacity for a moment. Here is a picture of the capacity label on the tender I rode today from Volendam.

 

 

Note that as a lifeboat the capacity is 150. There are 16 lifeboats on Volendam for a capacity of 2400. Volendam's capacity with all triples and quads full is 1718 and crew compliment is 647 so the total is 2375 so the Lifeboat capacity alone will cover the full passenger compliment and crew. As someone mentioned, any lifeboat or lifeboats may not be able to deploy, so the rafts should cover that situation. In addition, I don't believe I have ever seen a HAL ship filled to full upper berth capacity. Very few cabins have 3 or 4 passengers and all HAL ships carry quite a few solo cruisers.

 

Not quite the rules for cruise ships are that a ships must have life boats for atleast 75% capacity of the crew and passengers.  The remaining 25% (usually crew) get rafts.    Usually cruise ships carry enough rafts to provide a considerable surplus of total capability.

 

As the coast guard puts it

 

Both U.S. and foreign-flag passenger vessels on international voyages must have sufficient lifeboats and life rafts on board to accommodate 100 percent of the total number of persons on board (SOLAS Regulation III/21.1. 1 and 46 CFR 199.201(b)(1)). At least 75 percent of this capacity must be lifeboats.

[cbr663]

2 hours ago, coolbluegreenseas said:

All while sharing one bathroom? That does not sound like a vacation but a test in patience.

 

I agree.  Not how we travel but I do know lots of people who do travel like this.  We all have different wants and needs.

[Haljo1935]

10 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I did not realize it was a kids sail free promo until too late 😢 

 

600 children one one over 500 on the other.  No thanks.  Lesson learned.

Eeks!