NEWS FLASH: HAL to favor Triples and Quads

[Wehwalt]

33 minutes ago, jimdee3636 said:

I'm a retired lawyer. Regarding the legality of the cruise line's standard contract with passengers, it's what's called a "contract of adhesion," which basically means a contract in which the terms are dictated entirely by one party (in this example, the cruise line), with no right to negotiate by the other party (the passenger). In other words, take it or leave it. 

 

Contracts of adhesion are not inherently unenforceable, but in a disputed case they're examined closely by the court, and a judge is not necessarily going to rubber-stamp it just because the passenger "agreed" to it. If a judge believes the contract---or the action taken by the cruise line---was "unconscionable" or "misleading, unfair, or deceptive," the contract can be voided, and monetary damages can be awarded to the passenger.

 

As a practical matter, contract cases don't usually wind up in court unless a lot of money is at stake. But there are "class actions," where similarly-injured plaintiffs can band together, so there may be some hope for passengers financially injured by being involuntarily bumped.

 

Jim

Sure. But there's a waiver of class action in the cruise contract, and the Supreme Court upheld waivers of class action. AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion, 563 U.S. 333 (2011). Also, this isn't a claim for death, injury or illness so there is an arbitration clause that would send the claim to individual arbitration. The Supreme Court ruled regarding forum selection clauses (i.e., you have to sue HAL in Seattle) in cruise contracts that they had a valid purpose, and from what I can see the Washington State courts have not tried to differ. In Carnival Cruise Lines, Inc. v. Shute, 499 U.S. 585 (1991) Justice Blackmun for a 7-2 majority of the Supreme Court wrote that "In this context, it would be entirely unreasonable for us to assume that respondents -- or any other cruise passenger -- would negotiate with petitioner the terms of a forum-selection clause in an ordinary commercial cruise ticket. Common sense dictates that a ticket of this kind will be a form contract the terms of which are not subject to negotiation, and that an individual purchasing the ticket will not have bargaining parity with the cruise line." 

 

So you'd probably have to take such a claim to arbitration that means no class action. 

 

[Haljo1935]

48 minutes ago, POA1 said:

If you are paying double already, can't your husband be added for taxes, fees and port expenses only?

 

You may have to top up the deposit, but the fare codes should not change.

That should work for the same cabin, but she doesn't want husband in same cabin, she wants him to have his own - from what I'm reading.

[Mehroswitha]

For what it's worth, Royal Caribbean might be introducing a similar policy attempting to ensure maximum passenger count. (Or maybe just new to us.)

 

My husband and I sometimes cruise together with our adult son in a HAL Neptune suite or a two-bedroom suite on Royal Caribbean. RCCL's two-bedroom set-up suits us particularly well since it allows both him and us a greater measure of privacy.

 

We're planning a Mediterranean cruise in 2025 and recently tried to book with RCCL on Voyager of the Seas because their itinerary appealed to us a bit more than what HAL was offering--only to be told that the two-bedroom suites are reserved for groups of five or more. Agent told us that if one was still available after final payment date we might be able to book it, but she of course couldn't promise anything. No explanation of why we've booked one in the past with no issue at all. Maybe that sailing wasn't selling well?

 

Not a real problem for us: We promptly booked an aft Neptune on Oosterdam and expect to thoroughly enjoy it. Just thought this might fit in with what some others have reported experiencing on HAL and elsewhere. Or maybe this RCCL policy isn't really new but just something we've never encountered before.

 

[Haljo1935]

46 minutes ago, Mehroswitha said:

For what it's worth, Royal Caribbean might be introducing a similar policy attempting to ensure maximum passenger count. (Or maybe just new to us.)

 

My husband and I sometimes cruise together with our adult son in a HAL Neptune suite or a two-bedroom suite on Royal Caribbean. RCCL's two-bedroom set-up suits us particularly well since it allows both him and us a greater measure of privacy.

 

We're planning a Mediterranean cruise in 2025 and recently tried to book with RCCL on Voyager of the Seas because their itinerary appealed to us a bit more than what HAL was offering--only to be told that the two-bedroom suites are reserved for groups of five or more. Agent told us that if one was still available after final payment date we might be able to book it, but she of course couldn't promise anything. No explanation of why we've booked one in the past with no issue at all. Maybe that sailing wasn't selling well?

 

Not a real problem for us: We promptly booked an aft Neptune on Oosterdam and expect to thoroughly enjoy it. Just thought this might fit in with what some others have reported experiencing on HAL and elsewhere. Or maybe this RCCL policy isn't really new but just something we've never encountered before.

 

I agree it sounds like the change being discussed here and likely a trend.

Edited March 22 by Haljo1935
Typo

[craig01020]

I recently tried to book a Princess cruise and was frustrated because I couldn't choose a cabin with occupancy of more than two. Now it all makes sense.

 

That's actually a better method than letting us book it and bump us later, but it still stinks.

[POA1]

Realistically, a cruise ship cannot fill every available berth. The max rated passenger count would be exceeded (You can add up all the possible berths on any of the ships and compare that number to the ship's maximum occupancy.)

 

1 don't think you're ever going to find that many groups of 3 & 4 that want to travel together. In 30 years of cruising, my wife and I have never looked at each other and said, "You know what this room needs? More people!"

 

The more I noodle through this, the more I'm starting to blame adult children who are living at home - even though they could be out on their own.

 

1 couldn't wait to get my own place after college. (Pretty sure my parents felt the same way.)

 

We've vacationed with our parents. IN. SEPERATE. CABINS. Heck we even put a buffer stateroom between us; because we know we're bound to complain about one another at some point, and we don't want to be overheard. It would case hard feelings.

 

If you have adult children, please sit down with them and have "the talk." Mommy and Daddy love you, but you are not staying in our HAL stateroom.

 

Then, as often as possible, work in the phrase, "If you are going live under my roof, you are going to follow my rules." That's kryptonite.

 

Now, I realize that if I'm playing the long game, I have to accept that I'm winding up in a home. That's not ideal, but they do serve Jello with fruit, and I can talk about my ailments with a willing and eager audience.

[Haljo1935]

1 hour ago, craig01020 said:

I recently tried to book a Princess cruise and was frustrated because I couldn't choose a cabin with occupancy of more than two. Now it all makes sense.

 

That's actually a better method than letting us book it and bump us later, but it still stinks.

Agree.

[cbr663]

3 hours ago, craig01020 said:

I recently tried to book a Princess cruise and was frustrated because I couldn't choose a cabin with occupancy of more than two. Now it all makes sense.

 

That's actually a better method than letting us book it and bump us later, but it still stinks.

 

I think it is a better method also.  

 

I have written on CC that HAL is making it very difficult to book a cruise these days and this simply adds to the frustration.  

 

With the unprecedented demand for cruising (over tourism being a problem for years combined now with revenge travel after the pandemic) combined with AI and Data Analytics I think we are going to see huge shifts in the customer service experience.  

[Menocchio]

10 hours ago, Mehroswitha said:

For what it's worth, Royal Caribbean might be introducing a similar policy attempting to ensure maximum passenger count. (Or maybe just new to us.)

 

My husband and I sometimes cruise together with our adult son in a HAL Neptune suite or a two-bedroom suite on Royal Caribbean. RCCL's two-bedroom set-up suits us particularly well since it allows both him and us a greater measure of privacy.

 

We're planning a Mediterranean cruise in 2025 and recently tried to book with RCCL on Voyager of the Seas because their itinerary appealed to us a bit more than what HAL was offering--only to be told that the two-bedroom suites are reserved for groups of five or more. Agent told us that if one was still available after final payment date we might be able to book it, but she of course couldn't promise anything. No explanation of why we've booked one in the past with no issue at all. Maybe that sailing wasn't selling well?

 

Not a real problem for us: We promptly booked an aft Neptune on Oosterdam and expect to thoroughly enjoy it. Just thought this might fit in with what some others have reported experiencing on HAL and elsewhere. Or maybe this RCCL policy isn't really new but just something we've never encountered before.

 

Huh. That's wild. Restricting a two bedroom to three people I could see. But five? Heck, that's starting to feel like a tight squeeze even for a big suite. That's actually more people than most families I know.

 

I'd also think that I'd want to let people who'd buy a suite do as they please. I have to assume most people who travel like that aren't rediscovering their frugality on other forms of onboard spending, but maybe I'm wrong about that. 

[TiogaCruiser]

27 minutes ago, Menocchio said:

Huh. That's wild. Restricting a two bedroom to three people I could see. But five? Heck, that's starting to feel like a tight squeeze even for a big suite. That's actually more people than most families I know.

 

 

Maybe the next dry dock will see some cabins converted into bunk houses 😜🙄

[*Miss G*]

I, personally, stay away from any quads or triples, so it’s unlikely I will be warned off or relocated.  So far, I have been lucky with my strategy of avoiding high season crowds, but if I start encountering them in the shoulder season then my cruising days are numbered.

 

I do not like this style of revenue generation and am curious, now, of the team leading the charge.  Changing the model may increase revenue, but it will have a direct and negative impact for both passengers and crew.  (Unless you are a passenger who is new to cruising, or are used to something less refined… at which point you will be oblivious.)  I would hate to see the HAL cruising experience cheapened. 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 hours ago, POA1 said:

Realistically, a cruise ship cannot fill every available berth. The max rated passenger count would be exceeded (You can add up all the possible berths on any of the ships and compare that number to the ship's maximum occupancy.)

 

1 don't think you're ever going to find that many groups of 3 & 4 that want to travel together. In 30 years of cruising, my wife and I have never looked at each other and said, "You know what this room needs? More people!"

 

Maybe HAL needs to look at the true max passenger count and allow their system to book some triples for one or two passengers. Somewhere in the previous pages, there was a question about signature suites. What if every SS is a triple or quad? So that means no couple or single can book it, even if it's unlikely (or over the max count) to have every one of them occupied by four people? 

 

We have cruised with family and never thought of sharing a cabin. When good friends wanted to go on their first cruise, they asked us to come along and "teach us how to cruise." We must have done a good job because they were our cruising buddies for many years. For their first cruise, they debated between a large cabin for them and 2 teen daughters, or two smaller cabins. I said "One cabin, one bathroom. Two cabins, two bathrooms." So we booked three OV cabins in a row and put the girls in the middle cabin. 

 

I've looked at some of the pics on halfacts and with that sofa bed opened there is very little space. A lot of hotel rooms have a king bed and a sofa bed with room to spare. I wonder how many people have booked a triple or quad thinking it would be like that, not the condensed version that a ship offers. 

[*Miss G*]

13 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

A lot of hotel rooms have a king bed and a sofa bed with room to spare. I wonder how many people have booked a triple or quad thinking it would be like that, not the condensed version that a ship offers. 

 

Isn’t that funny.  I am sitting in my hotel room and actually did take a look around, for comparison purposes, while I was writing my previous post.  I have a King bed, but I am not a King.  Luckily, hotels haven’t moved to the HAL occupancy model or I wouldn’t have been able to book this room. 

 

Edited March 22 by *Miss G*
Clarity

[bajae]

8 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Isn’t that funny.  I am sitting in my hotel room and actually did take a look around, for comparison purposes, while I was writing my previous post.  I have a King bed, but I am not a King.  Luckily, hotels haven’t moved to the HAL cruising model or I wouldn’t have been able to book this room. 

 

Hotels generally don’t charge per guest so there isn’t a need to “fill” each room. I would imagine hotels will rather have all rooms booked with a single guest than have all beds full. 

[*Miss G*]

15 minutes ago, bajae said:

Hotels generally don’t charge per guest so there isn’t a need to “fill” each room. I would imagine hotels will rather have all rooms booked with a single guest than have all beds full. 

 

My point was in reference to room size, (based on @3rdGenCunarder’s post) but I’ll bite.

 

The way I look at ship stateroom pricing is that the price isn’t so much “per person” as it is per room.  It just happens to be broken down into a pp cost (based on double occupancy) so it appears more affordable.  (Appearances are everything.)  This is reinforced by the single occupancy surcharge in order to have their base costs covered.

 

”Kids Sail Free” and “3rd/4th Person in a Cabin Sail Free” promos also reinforce that the price is per room.  However, a camping-style budget has repercussions on crew AND on what that budget will allow for onboard expenditures.

 

 

Edited March 22 by *Miss G*

[Mehroswitha]

I'm the one who posted about sharing cabin with our adult son. Just to clarify: Far from still living at home with us (as some seem to be speculating) he lives and works over a thousand miles away, and we're able to see him only a couple of times a year.

 

One of things we look forward to most about shared vacations is the chance to spend time together. He's single, so a separate cabin would mean double fare for him. He (and we) feel it makes more sense to use the money for spacious, shared accommodations--with the suite benefits as a bonus--than to get separate cabins.

 

Best thing about cruise vacations is that everyone can choose their own style. This suits us.

Edited March 22 by Mehroswitha

[SeaCapt]

We have also cruised with our kids sharing our cabin- but the "kids" are in their 30's, and spend more on alcohol than we do! They live far away, so we are all happy to share a veranda cabin, and spend the saved money of an extra cabin on other things instead. Yeah, its a lot of people for one bathroom, but not an insurmountable challenge.

 

And in reference to the lifeboats/ship capacity question that keeps coming up, the ship is required to have 25% MORE lifeboat space than the number of people aboard, including guests and crew. As the ships don't add and subtract lifeboats each week depending on bookings, they always carry have enough lifeboats to accommodate 25% more people than if every single bed on the ship was occupied, including all triples and quads, and every crew bunk bed. The excess capacity is due to the assumption that some lifeboats may not launch or inflate properly, due to the ship listing or other issues such as fire.

Edited March 22 by SeaCapt

[AncientWanderer]

Then there's the issue of health.  How soon they forget.  So many people onboard in tight quarters should there be another outbreak of something.

Aren't I a ray of sunshine?!   lol

[Sherry H]

Well, this is interesting.  I just priced some cruises on the Koningsdam for 2026.  Normally you are giving the choice of "you pick your cabin" or "we pick your cabin".  "You pick" has always been priced higher.  I priced 4 cruises and with every cruise the price for "you pick" vs "we pick" was the same.  Guess they don't want us to say "but we paid extra to pick our own room".  

[FlaMariner]

15 minutes ago, Sherry H said:

Well, this is interesting.  I just priced some cruises on the Koningsdam for 2026.  Normally you are giving the choice of "you pick your cabin" or "we pick your cabin".  "You pick" has always been priced higher.  I priced 4 cruises and with every cruise the price for "you pick" vs "we pick" was the same.  Guess they don't want us to say "but we paid extra to pick our own room".  

 

No more "lower price" for our guarantees.

[mawvkysc]

35 minutes ago, Sherry H said:

Well, this is interesting.  I just priced some cruises on the Koningsdam for 2026.  Normally you are giving the choice of "you pick your cabin" or "we pick your cabin".  "You pick" has always been priced higher.  I priced 4 cruises and with every cruise the price for "you pick" vs "we pick" was the same.  Guess they don't want us to say "but we paid extra to pick our own room".  

 

36 minutes ago, Sherry H said:

Well, this is interesting.  I just priced some cruises on the Koningsdam for 2026.  Normally you are giving the choice of "you pick your cabin" or "we pick your cabin".  "You pick" has always been priced higher.  I priced 4 cruises and with every cruise the price for "you pick" vs "we pick" was the same.  Guess they don't want us to say "but we paid extra to pick our own room".  

“We pick” is different than a guarantee  cabin. 

[wdw1972]

15 hours ago, POA1 said:

If you are paying double already, can't your husband be added for taxes, fees and port expenses only?

 

You may have to top up the deposit, but the fare codes should not change.

I believe I'm paying less than double, as I booked an ocean view. However, the real issue is I have no desire to share my stateroom with hubby for 11 days, so the standby list is a way to get him on the ship for cheap (with our separate staterooms) if it comes through.  He's fine either way - going or not going. He thinks a 7-day cruise is a long one. We're doing a 7-day Alaska together next year and I booked us an aft neptune for that (family trip w/adult son/daughter-in-law) but for me 7-day cruises really aren't worth the effort.  Our stateroom for Alaska is a triple, so hopefully HAL doesn't try to bump us. It's 5/18/25, so before the summer vacation crowd hits the ships!

 

Sue/WDW1972

[ChinaShrek]

16 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

You are joking? Those things are not "easily" added, and many many people cruise HAL because they don't have those things. Just in case you weren't joking.

I realized that my comment was silly after I typed it. I don't like the Mega ships that offer these things but if HAL is serious about attracting younger cliental who knows what they will do.

[kazu]

3 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Isn’t that funny.  I am sitting in my hotel room and actually did take a look around, for comparison purposes, while I was writing my previous post.  I have a King bed, but I am not a King.  Luckily, hotels haven’t moved to the HAL occupancy model or I wouldn’t have been able to book this room. 

 

 

 

LOL - hotels have this warped idea that if you are willing to pay the price, you can the room/suite you booked. 😉 

 

Of co

[kazu]

1 hour ago, AncientWanderer said:

Then there's the issue of health.  How soon they forget.  So many people onboard in tight quarters should there be another outbreak of something.

Aren't I a ray of sunshine?!   lol

 

It’s a good point though.  

 

Believe me, when there’s 600 kids on a ship - it gets complicated to find a quiet spot.  I learned my lesson and whether friends are sailing again when the kids sail free promotion is on, I don’t think I will again.No pools, no hot tub (except on a port day) and just too much noise everywhere.  My saving grace was I had the CO dining room.