Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[time4u2go]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

There were some reports they were on their lunch break (which explains why the first two victims found were found in their truck), so they may not have been as attentive to their surroundings.

And their trucks may have been pointed in the opposite direction.

[Defender1158]

1 hour ago, mo&fran said:

Story I heard was the police were on the way to tell them but it was too late.

I have taken a close look at the Maryland Department of Transportation Police radio traffic (analyzing public safety radio used to be a big part of my job).  There were officers at both ends of the bridge, one moving traffic into one lane for the construction and the other just happened to be there.  As soon as their dispatcher received a call from the Port Authority dispatcher reporting the ship approaching that lost steering control (the Port Authority dispatcher had received the warning directly from the pilot on the ship via handheld radio), both of these officers immediately stopped all traffic in both directions.  There was then a discussion about the status of the construction crew still on the bridge.  The officer holding the southbound traffic stated that he would head up on the bridge to contact the crew just as soon as another officer could arrive to relieve him from holding the traffic.  Another officer was enroute, but did not arrive prior to the collapse.  The officer at the southbound hold point had about 30 seconds between his commitment to head up the bridge and the actual collapse, which would not have been nearly enough time to get the crew off.  In my opinion, the officer was absolutely correct in holding his assigned position until relieved in order to protect those persons he was responsible for.  Of course, if the officer had headed up the bridge immediately, we would only have had one more fatality.

 

Note that if you hear the radio traffic audio being broadcast by the media, the timing of the transmissions is not accurate.  These transmissions were recorded by broadcastify.com, which in this case was a collection of individual voice transmissions streams played one after the other without the actual blank space between them.  A total of 45 seconds is missing in the radio traffic being offered by the media versus the actual time from when the Police dispatcher alerted his units to block traffic and the collapse of the bridge.  

[CuseJeff44]

Is it at all surprising that Carnival so quickly announced a pivot to an otherwise dormant port while RC has their own port of call in Bayonne and a ship out there and still hasn't? I know there are logistics to work out but surprised they havent announced a tentative plan yet

[smokeybandit]

4 minutes ago, CuseJeff44 said:

Is it at all surprising that Carnival so quickly announced a pivot to an otherwise dormant port while RC has their own port of call in Bayonne and a ship out there and still hasn't? I know there are logistics to work out but surprised they havent announced a tentative plan yet

I'm a bit surprised RC hasn't announced anything, but it is a lot easier for Carnival to switch to Norfolk since that's their port and it's on the way to Baltimore.

My guess is RC is working to announce at the same time both what to do with the current cruise and what to do about the next two.

[HBE4]

17 minutes ago, CuseJeff44 said:

Is it at all surprising that Carnival so quickly announced a pivot to an otherwise dormant port while RC has their own port of call in Bayonne and a ship out there and still hasn't? I know there are logistics to work out but surprised they havent announced a tentative plan yet

 

Carnival had to act faster as their ship is returning this weekend. Royal has the "luxury" of taking a few extra days to work on several contingency plans. Probably waiting for the bean counters to figure out which one has the least financial impact. 

 

Also, outside chance, but maybe by next week there might be a realistic timeline as to when the shipping channel will be open and if restricted to one-way traffic.  That could also impact whatever temporary plans Royal has for Vision.

[Engineroom Snipe]

12 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

My guess is RC is working to announce at the same time both what to do with the current cruise and what to do about the next two.

 

And create the terms for cancellation by passengers due to the changes (BIG IF)

 

Might decide to give some FCC and OBC or give nothing at all.

 

Corporate has to sing from the same page, distribute the information officially to all call centers, TAs, update webpages etc.

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

And create the terms for cancellation by passengers due to the changes (BIG IF)

 

Might decide to give some FCC and OBC or give nothing at all.

 

Corporate has to sing from the same page, distribute the information officially to all call centers, TAs, update webpages etc.

I would think by the end of the week they'd have to have something out to allow people to change pre-cruise flights/hotels/etc.

[LB_NJ]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

I would think by the end of the week they'd have to have something out to allow people to change pre-cruise flights/hotels/etc.

Royal is NOTORIOUSLY BAD at keeping passengers informed!

[smokeybandit]

Just now, LB_NJ said:

Royal is NOTORIOUSLY BAD at keeping passengers informed!

They've been quite good with the Labadee stuff.

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

sailing into the wrong area

But how cognizant of that would they have been?

 

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

so they may not have been as attentive to their surroundings.

exactly. Maybe moreso during daylight

[OnTheJourney]

34 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

My guess is RC is working to announce at the same time both what to do with the current cruise and what to do about the next two.

That's a good observation since lots of people do B2B on these Vision itineraries.

[MrCruze]

Very interesting video about the salvage of the bridge.  Sounds like there will be third companies involved in the salvage and the companies have already been picked.

 

Edited March 28 by MrCruze

[PC 462]

3 hours ago, wrp96 said:

 

Police officers were getting in their cars to go warn the construction workers when the bridge collapsed.  They just didn't have enough time.   

Also, Governor Moore spoke with one of the two survivors of the collapse, who told him that a first responder was able to verbally tell him to get off the bridge.  The officer was holding traffic and could not leave his post to drive up and warn the other workers.

[Engineroom Snipe]

21 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

The harbor is going to take at least three months to clear with the most optimistic of projections. I am in agreement with @chengkp75.

 

The contracts have to be defined.

 

The resources needed to clear the harbor must be relocated.

 

The resources of the Armed Services cannot be utilized in most cases without an act of war.

 

The military is not allowed to compete with the private sector in most cases so "bringing in resources from Norfolk from the military is a remote possibility unless sanctioned by Congress."

 

Calculate the amount of tonnage in the water that needs to be cut, lifted, and barged to shore.

 

What happens when it gets to shore?

 

It has to be trucked for salvage or recycle.

 

Each truck might be able to handle 60,000 lbs.

 

Go back to line four, how much tonnage must be removed?

 

When all of this is competed, how much time will it take to complete a precise, meticulous sweep of the channel to ensure that no debris is left behind?

 

Even when the channel is clear, ship traffic will have to coordinate with the effort to clear the remaining bridge materials to facilitate an ultimate rebuilding of the bridge.

 

There are SO many moving parts to this equation.

 

I can bet my house against having all of the above done before June 1st, 2024.

 

The Vision will need other alternatives at that point.

 

Done of lecture and I hope I am wrong and everyone can go back to normal in the Port of Baltimore upon the date of June 1st, 2024.

 

Which one of you jokers put the "For Sale" sign on my lawn?

 

🤣

[Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, MrCruze said:

Very interesting video about the salvage of the bridge. 

 

.What is his experience on cleaning up this kind of accident?

 

He is a fireman right or is he just trying to get as many clicks on his YouTube Channel? I hope he backs off some and just lets the people that know what they are doing do their job.

[MrCruze]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

.What is his experience on cleaning up this kind of accident?

 

He is a fireman right or is he just trying to get as many clicks on his YouTube Channel? I hope he backs off some and just lets the people that know what they are doing do their job.

From his description: In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the three salvage operations that have to be attempted and the lack of an incident commander to oversee the situation.

 

I just hadn't heard about the three companies that will be doing the salvage.  Seems like a far more trust-worthy source as compared to people like me.  🙂

[smokeybandit]

27 minutes ago, MrCruze said:

Very interesting video about the salvage of the bridge.  Sounds like there will be third companies involved in the salvage and the companies have already been picked.

 

I would imagine these agencies have companies already pre-approved for work like this.

[MrCruze]

10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I would imagine these agencies have companies already pre-approved for work like this.

Sounds like they already have equipment en route from New Jersey.

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

They were on their break, I would have been noticing  this big ?[(] boat sailing into the wrong area to go under the bridge. That is for sure!

Dark outside and a ship that lost power including lights while they are on break in their truck maybe eating a sandwich.....

[Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Dark outside and a ship that lost power including lights while they are on break in their truck maybe eating a sandwich.....

I would think lights going and off a few times like they did, would have made me watch and say what in the heck is that ship doing................then you are darn sure I would be watching it, even if I was eating a sandwich.

[Ocean Boy]

Just now, Jimbo said:

I would think lights going and off a few times like they did, would have made me watch and say what in the heck is that ship doing................then you are darn sure I would be watching it, even if I was eating a sandwich.

If it was a meatball sandwich I might not have noticed anything going on....😊

[HBE4]

13 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I would think lights going and off a few times like they did, would have made me watch and say what in the heck is that ship doing................then you are darn sure I would be watching it, even if I was eating a sandwich.

 

If they were engrossed in conversation or looking down on their phones catching up on texts/social media, it'd be easy to miss. And perhaps their viewing angle, it was hard to notice that a ship had slowly drifted off course.

[chengkp75]

50 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

.What is his experience on cleaning up this kind of accident?

 

He is a fireman right or is he just trying to get as many clicks on his YouTube Channel? I hope he backs off some and just lets the people that know what they are doing do their job.

How does he know that there isn't an incident commander?  What is his clearance to know this information?  I sure don't know whether there is or not, but given past experiences, I know there will be one.  His comments about "dragging" the bridge out of the channel is just rubbish.  That is a certain way to leave potentially damaging debris behind.  Likewise his comments about "blowing up" the bridge.  He's showing his unfamiliarity with modern salvage operations, where the bridge will not be "blown up", but will be cut up by divers using thermite charges which will work like cutting torches, but with the safety of the divers not being there working the torches.  Also, anything dealing with the bridge repair outside the channel (i.e. the area of the main span of the bridge) will be as he correctly notes is the jurisdiction of MDOT, but it is by far a secondary concern, and not in the slightest a concern with regards to opening the channel.

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

I would think lights going and off a few times like they did, would have made me watch and say what in the heck is that ship doing................then you are darn sure I would be watching it, even if I was eating a sandwich.

Just remember that until the last few moments, the ship was in the shipping channel.  Also, like most cruisers, and one poster on this thread, I believe, perspective is deceiving, as it looks like the ships are almost touching the bridges as they go under, so how well a person could determine that a ship was too close to the bridge abutment is up in the air.

[westerdam]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm a bit surprised RC hasn't announced anything, but it is a lot easier for Carnival to switch to Norfolk since that's their port and it's on the way to Baltimore.

My guess is RC is working to announce at the same time both what to do with the current cruise and what to do about the next two.

I do hope RCI gets off of the proverbial pot soon about all this.  I am supposed to be going on the next cruise and in theory should already be onboard by this time next week. If I have to cancel, reschedule flights or book a bus to get me to wherever ship is going to be docking the sooner the better. Not just for me but everyone.  By now I would have thought there would have been at least a minor update.