Just when I thought there was nothing else to cut

[ghjcmo]

12 hours ago, Mary229 said:

When supply is tight consumers really can’t “get smart”.  

Sure we can.  We don't have to consume their product.  

[Hlitner]

The OP's review makes me sad.  Very sad.  Why?  Because on our 42 day Westerdam cruise, nearly one year earlier than the OP's cruise, we had many of the same kind of issues.  We had hoped that HAL realized the error of their ways, and had started to move back to the HAL we used to love.  Are we to believe that there are two different HAL's, the one that operates most of their cruises and the other which handles the longer Grand and Legendary cruises?  When I cruise on Seabourn, Princess, Oceania, Explora Journeys, etc, the product is the same whether it be a 7 day cruise or a 28 day cruise.  In fact, we know of no other cruise line that varies their standards depending on the length of the cruise.  We have taken Grand Cruises, and yes, there were some small extras, but the product was essentially what we used to experience on shorter HAL

 

As to whether consumers can "get smart."  yes, one can certainly do that by simply looking at other options. For us, it has meant not booking anymore HAL cruises and simply going on other lines that still give us a very good product.  For folks that are wedded to a single cruise line (HAL has many fans that do not go on other lines) they must either accept the changes/cut-backs or not cruise at all!  We do know our couple (long time HAL fans) who have given up on HAL and now take extended land trips.  

 

Hank

[Mary229]

9 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

Sure we can.  We don't have to consume their product.  

I was responding to someone who implied we could change the lines behavior.  We can only change our own.   I don’t see much for me in the cruise space anymore.  I have more land travel planned  next year for the first time in many years.  

[esimon]

43 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

It's simple.   Quit cruising, or at least  cut way back.  Until demand slacks, they will continue to cut and cut and cut while simultaneously increasing the cost of everything.  If we just keep lining up to throw our money at them, they have no incentive to stop.  

Well I’m not nearly as disenchanted as you.  I feel like I’m getting my moneys worth and I love it.  I’m sorry people are so negative and pessimistic but to each is own. 

[Cruisercl]

I started cruising with HAL in 1988. Things have changed quite a bit over the years for a variety of reasons.

The opinions about whether it is good or bad is totally subjective. Things that are important to one person are not important to another. 

 

The cruising industry has changed to adapt to demand, competition and of course money/profits. HAL has kept up to stay in business,

This has happened in every industry over time. Not sure why people don't recognize this; I don't understand the entitlement. Flying is a good example too.

I still cruise, alot, and still enjoy the product, not every cruiseline but that is my choice.

If something doesn't work for me I don't do it.

Safe travels all! 😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1 by Cruisercl

[ghjcmo]

2 hours ago, esimon said:

Well I’m not nearly as disenchanted as you.  I feel like I’m getting my moneys worth and I love it.  I’m sorry people are so negative and pessimistic but to each is own. 

Well for me they're simply pricing me out of the market.  Not only have they increased base fares, they've also dramatically increased the extra amenities,  While simultaneously reducing the experience. It's nothing like what it was 23 years ago when I first started cruising.  And its not going to stop because demand is off the chart.

 

[ghjcmo]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I was responding to someone who implied we could change the lines behavior.  We can only change our own.   I don’t see much for me in the cruise space anymore.  I have more land travel planned  next year for the first time in many years.  

I'm rapidly losing interest because of the CONSTANT drip, drip, drip of price increases for EVERYTHING.  When  I started cruising, it was a great value.   And that has disappeared over the years.   The president of Carnival Corp has openly talked about how they want to increase the cost of cruising to match land based vacations.  I've also noticed it seems like the lines are moving towards this floating amusement park concept while also moving to remove the "at sea" aspect of cruising.  So if there's no cost advantage, and if they're not going to lean into the "sailing" aspect of cruising, then what's the point of cruising?   So I understand your point.  

[Seasick Sailor]

17 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

Well for me they're simply pricing me out of the market.  Not only have they increased base fares, they've also dramatically increased the extra amenities,  While simultaneously reducing the experience. It's nothing like what it was 23 years ago when I first started cruising.  And its not going to stop because demand is off the chart.

 

 

No current vacation costs are like you experienced 23 years ago! 

 

We had a timeshare on Maui since 1985. (Sold last year. Not due to high prices, just wanted to move on due to health)

 

It doesn't matter if you have land or sea vacations, it will never be what you got 23 years ago.

[ghjcmo]

12 minutes ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

No current vacation costs are like you experienced 23 years ago! 

 

We had a timeshare on Maui since 1985. (Sold last year. Not due to high prices, just wanted to move on due to health)

 

It doesn't matter if you have land or sea vacations, it will never be what you got 23 years ago.

Nobody expects it to be the same price.  Give me a little more credit than that.  C'mon now.  When I say it's not the same, I'm talking about the actual cruising experience and how THAT has changed.  And how they have continually taken things away.  If they raised the price BUT kept the same experience, that would be one thing.  But we're paying more now for less product. 

[CruiserBruce]

2 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

Nobody expects it to be the same price.  Give me a little more credit than that.  C'mon now.  When I say it's not the same, I'm talking about the actual cruising experience and how THAT has changed.  And how they have continually taken things away.  If they raised the price BUT kept the same experience, that would be one thing.  But we're paying more now for less product. 

Change is inevitable. It is difficult for some people to acknowledge. The "same experience" may not be what is in demand now. 

 

Has no other cruise line changed their product in the last 23 years?

[3rdGenCunarder]

31 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Change is inevitable. It is difficult for some people to acknowledge. The "same experience" may not be what is in demand now. 

 

Has no other cruise line changed their product in the last 23 years?

 

Yeah, because I sure don't want entertainment options like guest performers or a jazz combo or guest speakers or a decent library. Nah, I'll just bring my phone loaded with tunes and books.

 

Oh wait...I can do that at home.

[CruiserBruce]

30 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Yeah, because I sure don't want entertainment options like guest performers or a jazz combo or guest speakers or a decent library. Nah, I'll just bring my phone loaded with tunes and books.

 

Oh wait...I can do that at home.

How about the 40s music and the Broadway stage productions? I don't  see the high demand for those items, but some here see the end of the world when those went away.

 

I have had guest performers EVERY cruise since resumption. 5 cruises now. We have had a band on the smaller ships, BB King and/or Rolling Stones band on the bigger ships, on every cruise. But some aren't happy with those either. Have had 2 to 4 classical musicians on every cruise.

 

There is a concept of evolution vs extinction....what happens in if you don't evolve?

[doublebzz]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Change is inevitable. It is difficult for some people to acknowledge. The "same experience" may not be what is in demand now. 

 

Has no other cruise line changed their product in the last 23 years?

I think most posters are acknowledging the change and for them it has lessened their enjoyment of cruising. For me, cruising used to be a wonderful experience in and of itself.  Today I just regard it as a mode of transportation from one interesting port to another. I will continue to cruise but my choice of a cruise line, barring some exceptions, will be entirely itinerary driven.

[ghjcmo]

8 hours ago, doublebzz said:

I think most posters are acknowledging the change and for them it has lessened their enjoyment of cruising. For me, cruising used to be a wonderful experience in and of itself.  Today I just regard it as a mode of transportation from one interesting port to another. I will continue to cruise but my choice of a cruise line, barring some exceptions, will be entirely itinerary driven.

 

Yeah that's exactly where I fall now.  I have to say I'm a little puzzled and dismayed by some of the responses here.  We all know prices have risen on EVERYTHING everywhere.  But when I go to the grocery store and now pay for a gallon of milk at a much higher price than it was a few years ago, what do I  have?  I still  have a GALLON of milk.  If the grocery stores followed the pricing model going on in cruising right now, we'd pay the new higher price for a gallon of milk, BUT we'd only get 3/4's of a gallon or half of a gallon of milk.   That's EXACTLY what's going on with cruising.  We're getting 3/4's of a gallon.  

[MAVIP]

57 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

 

Yeah that's exactly where I fall now.  I have to say I'm a little puzzled and dismayed by some of the responses here.  We all know prices have risen on EVERYTHING everywhere.  But when I go to the grocery store and now pay for a gallon of milk at a much higher price than it was a few years ago, what do I  have?  I still  have a GALLON of milk.  If the grocery stores followed the pricing model going on in cruising right now, we'd pay the new higher price for a gallon of milk, BUT we'd only get 3/4's of a gallon or half of a gallon of milk.   That's EXACTLY what's going on with cruising.  We're getting 3/4's of a gallon.  

I am so sorry, but what you describe with the gallon of milk happens in our supermarkets now....a little bit less in weight or in numbers and a little bit higher price....

[Sea42]

2 minutes ago, MAVIP said:

I am so sorry, but what you describe with the gallon of milk happens in our supermarkets now....a little bit less in weight or in numbers and a little bit higher price....

So true. Not with milk but many products are now a higher price for a smaller package.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, ghjcmo said:

 

Yeah that's exactly where I fall now.  I have to say I'm a little puzzled and dismayed by some of the responses here.  We all know prices have risen on EVERYTHING everywhere.  But when I go to the grocery store and now pay for a gallon of milk at a much higher price than it was a few years ago, what do I  have?  I still  have a GALLON of milk.  If the grocery stores followed the pricing model going on in cruising right now, we'd pay the new higher price for a gallon of milk, BUT we'd only get 3/4's of a gallon or half of a gallon of milk.   That's EXACTLY what's going on with cruising.  We're getting 3/4's of a gallon.  

That analogy doesn't fly. If you want a gallon of milk, the package says it's gallon of milk, but in reality it's 3/4s of a gallon,  you have a false advertising issue, and possibly fraud. You are upset with HAL because they don't offer what they used to. They are not falsely saying they do. 

 

Again, it's about change and evolution. Are you unhappy with beverage packages or HIA? That's change. And evolution. 

[ghjcmo]

26 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

That analogy doesn't fly. If you want a gallon of milk, the package says it's gallon of milk, but in reality it's 3/4s of a gallon,  you have a false advertising issue, and possibly fraud. You are upset with HAL because they don't offer what they used to. They are not falsely saying they do. 

 

Again, it's about change and evolution. Are you unhappy with beverage packages or HIA? That's change. And evolution. 

No that analogy is spot on.  Do you work for the cruise lines or something?  Because you sure are "white knighting" for them a lot.  

[ghjcmo]

34 minutes ago, MAVIP said:

I am so sorry, but what you describe with the gallon of milk happens in our supermarkets now....a little bit less in weight or in numbers and a little bit higher price....

I don't know where you shop but when I buy a gallon of milk I get a gallon of milk.  Sounds like you need to shop someplace else.   

 

[ontheweb]

36 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

So true. Not with milk but many products are now a higher price for a smaller package.

That is so true. For example, Dollar Tree finally went to $1.25 as a base price rather than $1 which was not unexpected. But they also in many instances shrunk the product, for example, 2 bars of soap instead of 3 for the base price or 30 ounces of dish detergent instead of 50 ounces.

Edited August 1 by ontheweb
spelling correction

[doublebzz]

1 hour ago, ghjcmo said:

 

Yeah that's exactly where I fall now.  I have to say I'm a little puzzled and dismayed by some of the responses here.   

Agree with your analogy but some posters will nit-pic it, I'm sure.  Not puzzled by any of the responses.  Again, some posters are wedded to HAL and regard any criticism as a personal attack.

[ghjcmo]

10 minutes ago, doublebzz said:

Agree with your analogy but some posters will nit-pic it, I'm sure.  Not puzzled by any of the responses.  Again, some posters are wedded to HAL and regard any criticism as a personal attack.

 

Well that must be it, because some of the responses here, and the RIDICULOUS spin is mind blowing.  And for the record, I'm actually talking about the cruise industry in general right now.  Truth be told, I think HAL maybe is holding the line a little better than some of the other lines.  Carnival is the worst right now by far with the nickel and dime price increases.  Although oddly enough, as of 2023, I could still get lobster included in the MDR on my Carnival cruises, and on my Panama Canal cruise with HAL last year, lobster was never included.  So it seems they're all making cuts.

Edited August 1 by ghjcmo

[Niagarawine]

13 hours ago, ghjcmo said:

Well for me they're simply pricing me out of the market.  Not only have they increased base fares, they've also dramatically increased the extra amenities,  While simultaneously reducing the experience. It's nothing like what it was 23 years ago when I first started cruising.  And its not going to stop because demand is off the chart.

 

Yes the ships are full and there is no impetus to change the product

[ghjcmo]

Just now, Niagarawine said:

Yes the ships are full and there is no impetus to change the product

 

Yes that's exactly right.  In a perverse twist of irony, the shutdown may have been the best thing that ever happened to the cruise lines because for whatever reason, demand post shutdown  has exploded.  I thought maybe once we got past the pent up demand it might slack but it shows no signs of slowing down.  And the cruise lines know this and are taking advantage of it.  And to make matters worse, the first time cruisers are becoming a larger share of the market.  So they don't know any better.  They don't know how it used to be.

[taxmantoo]

8 minutes ago, ghjcmo said:

 

Well that must be it, because some of the responses here, and the RIDICULOUS spin is mind blowing.  And for the record, I'm actually talking about the cruise industry in general right now.  Truth be told, I think HAL maybe is holding the line a little better than some of the other lines.  Carnival is the worst right now by far with the nickel and dime price increases.  Although oddly enough, as of 2023, I could still get lobster included in the MDR on my Carnival cruises, and on my Panama Canal cruise with HAL last year, lobster was never included.  So it seems they're all making cuts.

Although anyone who has tasted the lobster on HAL can tell you, that is an improvement 🙂

 

Edited August 1 by taxmantoo