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Propulsion Damage on the Anthem !!

FIRELT5

By FIRELT5,
in Royal Caribbean International

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loubetti

loubetti

Posted
Posted
Cheng is the acronym for Chief Engineer, KP stands for Kings Point, the US Merchant Marine Academy, and 75 is my year of graduation.

 

Thank God! We finally have an explanation. Not how about just a first name, even a phony one. C'mon, even aquahound gives us "Paul". :D

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KarinaGW

KarinaGW

Posted
Posted
At some point during the storm, the pods were damaged, right? So its possible that when the ship wasn't making any headway could have happened after the pods were damaged.

 

Read chenpk75's post that begin on this page and continue on. Or, if you're feeling really determined and want a complete education on the subject, go here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2314372 and especially pay attention to postings by Cenpk75, aquahound and Loubetti.

 

But, the short answer is no.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Thank God! We finally have an explanation. Not how about just a first name, even a phony one. C'mon, even aquahound gives us "Paul". :D

 

Sorry, Lou, gotta keep my identity a secret. :D Just think of how many toilets I'd be asked to fix if someone knew who I was. :p

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A&L_Ont "Live from...." Rare

A&L_Ont

Posted
Posted
Big difference with the Quantum class ships. These ships have the second generation XO azipods, which allow for the thrust bearings to be renewed without drydocking. These thrust bearings are the major headache with podded propulsion. What the thrust bearing does is provide the point where the "push" of the propeller shaft, which is rotating, forces against the stationary ship. So, the entire power of the propeller is pushing on this bearing, and the entire inertia of the ship is pushing back. The Voyager/Freedom/Oasis class have the older AO (I think it was) type pods, and the bearing could not be renewed from the inside, so a bearing failure required securing a drydock time slip, or in the case of Allure, a modification to the drydock to allow it to service a ship too big to fit. These new pods can renew bearings from the inside, so they carry spares, and the repair can normally be done within a long port stay, or with the shaft locked and calm weather, at sea.

 

There is no requirement for redundancy of propulsion (with a bit of a caveat with regards to cruise ships, more later). 90% of ships on the ocean today have only one engine and one propeller. The problem comes with steering. Ships with rudders will have two sources of hydraulics to turn the rudder, just like having two azipods (though cruise ships with twin rudders will have 4 steering motors, two on each rudder). The USCG says that you must have redundancy of steering to enter into restricted waters of the US (ports and traffic schemes). If a twin rudder ship loses one of 4 steering motors, she still has two rudders, so there is redundancy. But if a ship has two azipods (steerable pods), and one goes down, there is no redundancy, so the USCG will require a tug escort in case things go further south. The ship is perfectly capable of maneuvering on one rudder or pod, but the USCG wants a safety factor. Each time the ship enters or leaves a US port, it must report the loss of steering redundancy, and each Captain of the Port will determine measures required, but mostly it is a tug escort. This only applies to US ports, some foreign ports require it, some don't.

 

Now, the caveat about redundancy of propulsion for cruise ships. The recent (2010) Safe Return to Port regulations require redundancy of propulsion, but this is accomplished with one pod down by being able to power the one operational pod from either engine room/switchboard, so loss of one engine room, and one propulsion room will still allow the ship to proceed under power.

 

So, the USCG can allow a ship to proceed to sea with only one pod operational, if it was built before 2010, or if built after 2010 if both engine rooms are operational. Maritime regulations are never retroactive.

 

Thanks for this explanation it was very informative and easy to understand. Having read this it greatly explains Anthem's return to port in relation to speed and tug support.

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jaspercat

jaspercat

Posted
Posted
Thank God! We finally have an explanation. Not how about just a first name, even a phony one. C'mon, even aquahound gives us "Paul". :D

:) I'm pretty sure he has given/posted how his siggy has come about. Lou-- I'm not sure I've seen how yours has.:p.

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A&L_Ont "Live from...." Rare

A&L_Ont

Posted
Posted (edited)
Cheng is the acronym for Chief Engineer, KP stands for Kings Point, the US Merchant Marine Academy, and 75 is my year of graduation.

 

If I can be so bold, to keep your anonymity, can we call you "Chief"? In honour of your position as well as the fact that when it comes to nautical information you are "the chief" in the answer department. A little serious as well as a bit joking as I suggest this.:)

 

I know you can't say what ship you are on. However, could you give us an idea of approximate area where we might find you not to mention do you sail a regular route or is each sailing always different?

 

Thanks in advance for thinking of my requests and possibly answering them, even if in a vague way. It is appreciated.

 

Andrew

Edited by A&L_Ont
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LMaxwell Great Review Rare

LMaxwell

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cheng I read on Gcaptain that the port pod had burned out its clutch packs. Makes sense to me, the weakest point should be a variable friction point, that way strong shocks don't snap metal drive shafts or gear joints.

 

But being as how it was a burned out clutch wouldn't it just be a matter of time in extreme conditions before the starboard clutches overheat and slip?

 

Recognizing that a clutch is a wear item... how long is the service life under normal sailing conditions? How often are clutches renewed?

Edited by LMaxwell
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rubrrick

rubrrick

Posted
Posted
Are you really surprised (sarcasm)??? I know I am not. They cannot even email my payment receipts! I booked my first cruise with RCI the first week of January. To this date I have not heard anything from them via email. They changed the entire itinerary and I did not hear anything, yet other people got emails. I emailed them (and called, which did nothing) to let them know I was not happy that I did not receive an email from them to let me know the cruise was changing..that was a week ago, still have not heard anything. RCI's lack of communication is horrendous.

 

Kimberly, just a quick question. Is your email account an EarthLink.net account? I could not receive emails on my earthlink account for the past 6 months. I finally had to start a gmail account, then I could get everything from RCCL.

 

RCCL says that they have been working with earthlink to work out the problems, and earthlink says they are not aware of any problems.

 

I'm not sure who is correct, but maybe you need to start a different email account.....such as yahoo or gmail, and give that a try.

 

Just a suggestion, as I communicate frequently with RCCL, and was blaming them for something that my carrier was in error.

 

Rick

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eddeb

eddeb

Posted
Posted

So how are you doing tonight?

 

Love your thoughtful input.

 

I did print a post with all the ships that have been lost due to rough seas.

 

Did you see the Movie Ben Hur?

 

Charleston Heston had to row row row your boat... :)

 

If the 2nd azipod failed, what is your extremely professional review on that?

 

There was no reason this should have happened. Period.

 

If you can say that this ship was not in imminent danger,

 

may God Bless you.

 

Love seeing your posts.

 

Love to meet you one day.

 

Lets just agree to disagree...

 

Not sure you are seeing all the press stories as you are at Sea.

 

There are lots and lots...

 

Take care,

 

We are the Moore's

Tampa Bay

 

Oh: bu Bye :)

727943962_PukinPeter026(1024x786).jpg.5064133ef09aa5497a763cfc10b39f95.jpg

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BND

BND

Posted
Posted
Cheng I read on Gcaptain that the port pod had burned out its clutch packs. Makes sense to me, the weakest point should be a variable friction point, that way strong shocks don't snap metal drive shafts or gear joints.

 

But being as how it was a burned out clutch wouldn't it just be a matter of time in extreme conditions before the starboard clutches overheat and slip?

 

Recognizing that a clutch is a wear item... how long is the service life under normal sailing conditions? How often are clutches renewed?

 

According to one of the articles linked somewhere on one of the Anthem threads, they were replacing both port and starboard clutches. Starboard out of precaution.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
If I can be so bold, to keep your anonymity, can we call you "Chief"? In honour of your position as well as the fact that when it comes to nautical information you are "the chief" in the answer department. A little serious as well as a bit joking as I suggest this.:)

 

I know you can't say what ship you are on. However, could you give us an idea of approximate area where we might find you not to mention do you sail a regular route or is each sailing always different?

 

Thanks in advance for thinking of my requests and possibly answering them, even if in a vague way. It is appreciated.

 

Andrew

 

I'm currently working tankers in the Gulf of Mexico. Been riding the anchor for a couple weeks now. Cleaning the ship to switch from crude oil to clean product to bring gasoline to the hungry folks in Florida.

 

I've worked the offshore oil industry, container ships, RO/RO ships, bulk carriers, tankers, and cruise ships.

 

The company has been gracious enough to finally step into the last century and give us some limited internet, so my absences may be less than previous.

 

And, yes, Chief is fine. I generally answer to anything but "a**hole". But I get that from the better half a lot.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Cheng I read on Gcaptain that the port pod had burned out its clutch packs. Makes sense to me, the weakest point should be a variable friction point, that way strong shocks don't snap metal drive shafts or gear joints.

 

But being as how it was a burned out clutch wouldn't it just be a matter of time in extreme conditions before the starboard clutches overheat and slip?

 

Recognizing that a clutch is a wear item... how long is the service life under normal sailing conditions? How often are clutches renewed?

 

Again, the clutches are only for overtorque protection of the steering. I believe that the wind was coming from port, so there was a lot of steering torque to port, so the port pod probably took the brunt of it. And even if the clutches were to fail on both pods, they could lock the steering and do some rudimentary heading using variation of power between the pods. The clutches are most likely (I haven't worked on a podded ship) renewed every drydock.

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