On Marina now...

[Travelcat2]

It is easier to blame the cruise line than the passengers. We are currently on Regent's Explorer and have watched a woman that was clearly contagious (coughing, sneezing, swallowing constantly to lubricate her throat, etc.). Besides for the chair arms (probably not cleaned after every person sits down), she held on to the tops of two other chairs as she made her way around the dining venue. All it takes to spread her illness it to touch places that she has touched and then your nose or eyes. This is also true of hand railings.

 

Thankfully there is no norovirus or gastroenteritis on this ship - if there was, I would clearly blame the passengers as there are no crew members coughing or sounding sick.

 

Lastly, the fact that Oceania "serves" food from the buffet to passengers did not stop norovirus on the Marina or Riviera last year (or so far this year). Really hope that the Marina is able to eradicate the virus and that passengers will take precautions on future cruises.

[Paulchili]

Lastly, the fact that Oceania "serves" food from the buffet to passengers did not stop norovirus on the Marina or Riviera last year (or so far this year).

 

It may not have stopped it but I am sure it helped even further spread and having even more people ill.

Are you suggesting that they stop this practice? :confused:

Aside from the obvious hygienic benefits it also helps to keep the food more presentable than if individuals were to forage and pick through for their food. I have seen those buffets on ships and restaurants that allow such practice.

Disclaimer - I am sure that passengers on Regent are far too civilized for such behavior but as Oceania is only premium plus and not a luxury line, no such guarantee can be given :D

Edited November 8, 2016 by Paulchili

[ORV]

NO, it's not under control. All the safeguards that were in place are still in place. It is, indeed, under reported. We have met many people who have had it but did not go to the doctor. Good luck to those on the next cruise.

 

Personally once someone mentions they had it i don't stick around long enough to find out any more details.

 

I forget, did you report yours?

[Travelcat2]

It may not have stopped it but I am sure it helped even further spread and having even more people ill.

Are you suggesting that they stop this practice? :confused:

Aside from the obvious hygienic benefits it also helps to keep the food more presentable than if individuals were to forage and pick through for their food. I have seen those buffets on ships and restaurants that allow such practice.

Disclaimer - I am sure that passengers on Regent are far too civilized for such behavior but as Oceania is only premium plus and not a luxury line, no such guarantee can be given :D

 

If Oceania passengers prefer having food on a buffet served to them, there is no reason to change it.

 

Regent and other luxury cruise lines do allow passengers to serve themselves (and they are not necessarily "far too civilized for such behavior"). However, it does not seem that there is a greater number of passengers that norovirus on ships where people serve themselves vs. having a crew member serve them.

[sarn]

Having sailed on ships, including Azamara, where the buffet is self service, I was very pleasantly surprised when we were on Sirena in June that we were served in the buffet - in my opinion a much better system.

[Paulchili]

However, it does not seem that there is a greater number of passengers that norovirus on ships where people serve themselves vs. having a crew member serve them.

 

Does this statement really make any sense to you?

If Noro is spread by contact with infected surfaces - and it most definitely is - why wouldn't more people get sick when some "sick" person handles the serving utensils in the buffet that will subsequently be handled by "healthy" people? I will even give some of them the benefit of doubt that some of these "sick" people may at this point not even be aware that they are sick and carrying the virus but are "sharing" their viruses with everyone else (plus those that are already sick but refuse to quarantine themselves).

We've all seen people handle food by hands (rolls, fruit) and put it back again (obviously never on Regent or luxury lines - too civilized to do such a thing or "mess up/pick through" a buffet dish :D) only to have someone else eat it later. If the person handling the food (or utensils) was sick, it surely follows that many others after him/her will get sick later.

Does this not make more sense to you? Why do you think they remove the serving spoons at the buffet & salt/pepper shakers, etc once the ship is on code red?

I feel like I am talking to a 5 year old (or maybe I am just too upset this morning).

Edited November 9, 2016 by Paulchili

[ronrick1943]

Does this statement really make any sense to you?

If Noro is spread by contact with infected surfaces - and it most definitely is - why wouldn't more people get sick when some "sick" person handles the serving utensils in the buffet that will subsequently be handled by "healthy" people? I will even give some of them the benefit of doubt that some of these "sick" people may at this point not even be aware that they are sick and carrying the virus but are "sharing" their viruses with everyone else (plus those that are already sick but refuse to quarantine themselves).

We've all seen people handle food by hands (rolls, fruit) and put it back again (obviously never on Regent or luxury lines - too civilized to do such a thing or "mess up/pick through" a buffet dish :D) only to have someone else eat it later. If the person handling the food (or utensils) was sick, it surely follows that many others after him/her will get sick later.

Does this not make more sense to you? Why do you think they remove the serving spoons at the buffet & salt/pepper shakers, etc once the ship is on code red?

I feel like I am talking to a 5 year old (or maybe I am just too upset this morning).

 

 

No, I think your right on.......

[Travelcat2]

Paulchili: The sentence does not make sense only because I wrote it incorrectly. To state it simply, the Riviera had approximately three cruises with either norovirus or gastroenteritis last fall/winter. The Marina had at least one cruise as did another Oceania ship. Regent had one case of gastroenteritis on one cruise - on one ship. The statistics speak for themselves.

 

A simple way of not catching anything from utensils used to serve yourself food is to use a napkin when handling the utensils. The Explorer has hand washing stations inside the equivalent of the Terrace Café and also a hand sanitizer station. If I do not use a napkin when I serve myself, I sanitize my hands after putting the food onto my plate.

 

BTW, Regent removes salt and pepper shakers when you are finished with dinner (not the case for breakfast or lunch so, once again, we need to take personal responsibility). I have wipes in my purse to use if it seems necessary.

 

I guess we both feel like we're talking to 5 year olds but, today, I suppose that many of us are not in the best mood. Obviously, Oceania is going to do what it wants to do and Regent will do the same. However, we will not book a cruise on Oceania during the fall and winter months for obvious reasons. IMO, whatever Oceania is doing needs to be rethought as it is simply not working.

[bronte2]

We boarded Marina in Lima in April and an outbreak of GI illness occurred.

 

This seemed to start on day one :eek: We were having lunch when the CD made an announcement asking the person who had vomited in the Terrace Cafe to report to the medical centre. He apologised for being so direct with the announcement! I must admit it was quite sobering to hear this only a couple of hours after boarding the ship. :(

I can't remember exactly when the full sanitation procedures started but Oceania seemed pretty proactive. The laundries were closed, tables and walls wiped down with the sticky stuff others have mentioned. Each day the CD made an announcement as to the progress of the illness. It got to 11 cases after a few days and then seemed to abate. I think the extra sanitation procedures lasted for several days.

 

I was quite impressed with the way the outbreak was handled but I guess after the issues with Riviera earlier they didn't want to take any chances.

[Fetchpeople]

Let me first state clearly my medical background: I have none other than being a recipient of services from time to time.

 

My observation is that O must be doing something right. Why? How?

 

Well the consensus is that once a ship is infected with noro, O promptly takes action. It enforces hygiene activity; it requires single use of menus, of salt and pepper, of placemats; it closes the passenger laundry, and more.

 

All of these actions, to say nothing of the disease itself, hurt O where it hurts the most - on the bottom line. Passengers who are sick and/or quarantined do not drink, do not tour, do not shop, and do not book with the Ambassador. What they do is complain and spread the disease and negatives.

 

What is most surprising about the various threads about noro on cruise ships is the fact that incidents are relatively rare and the percentage of sick passengers and crew is rarely in double digits. All this while everyone is exposed to disease that spreads with a single touch or sneeze.

 

Yes, I say give O some credit for trying and it seems to me succeeding.

[Paulchili]

Paulchili: The sentence does not make sense only because I wrote it incorrectly. To state it simply, the Riviera had approximately three cruises with either norovirus or gastroenteritis last fall/winter. The Marina had at least one cruise as did another Oceania ship. Regent had one case of gastroenteritis on one cruise - on one ship. The statistics speak for themselves.

.

 

TC2,

I have no idea of your background or profession but I can state with absolute certainty that you do not have a scientific background.

What you are stating as evidence is nothing more than coincidence. What it simply means that some people carrying the Noro virus boarded the Riviera (either 3 different times or continuation of the same illness) and Marina once. Fortunately for Regent, this only happened once - all of this being a pure coincidence and had nothing to do with how the buffet functioned.

If you wanted to prove your point that self service buffet vs served buffet has no effect or no difference in spread of Noro cases you would have to run a fairly complex and well controlled study (ain't gonna happen).

Namely, you need several ships (say at least 6) of same size and no Noro onboard. 3 will have self service buffet and 3 will not.

Then you send a couple of Noro infected people on all 6 ships - nobody will know that they are infected. Ideally, the people onboard of all these ships should be as homogeneous as possible (age, similar education, cultural background, etc, etc). All this to make sure that the only difference between these 6 ships will be the service in the buffet and nothing else - next to impossible but that is how you run a scientific protocol. You make everything the same except the one variable that you are trying to measure- in this case buffet service.

Then 10 days later you will count the number of cases of Noro on all ships. If indeed the number of cases with self served buffet will be the same as on the other ships, then, and only then, could you state that the type of service in buffet had no effect on the spread of Noro. But simply stating that 4 Oceania ships had Noro and only 1 Regent had it proves nothing except that Regent got lucky in that only one of their ships had a person board the ship carrying the virus.

Cheers :)

Edited November 9, 2016 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

Deleted

Edited November 9, 2016 by Paulchili

[WpgCruise]

No, I think your right on.......

 

I agree. Best to just put the individual Paul is addressing on the "Ignore" list

 

IMHO, while indeed we are all entitled to our opinion, if they don't know what they are talking about, that opinion really doesn't matter.

[bitob]

Does this statement really make any sense to you?

If Noro is spread by contact with infected surfaces - and it most definitely is - why wouldn't more people get sick when some "sick" person handles the serving utensils in the buffet that will subsequently be handled by "healthy" people? I will even give some of them the benefit of doubt that some of these "sick" people may at this point not even be aware that they are sick and carrying the virus but are "sharing" their viruses with everyone else (plus those that are already sick but refuse to quarantine themselves).

We've all seen people handle food by hands (rolls, fruit) and put it back again (obviously never on Regent or luxury lines - too civilized to do such a thing or "mess up/pick through" a buffet dish :D) only to have someone else eat it later. If the person handling the food (or utensils) was sick, it surely follows that many others after him/her will get sick later.

Does this not make more sense to you? Why do you think they remove the serving spoons at the buffet & salt/pepper shakers, etc once the ship is on code red?

I feel like I am talking to a 5 year old (or maybe I am just too upset this morning).

 

 

Plus 1 on all levels

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Mura]

I remain curious as to how and why the noro infections started.

 

Our first Marina cruise was in October 2011, the next was in November 2013. In between we were on Regatta in August 2012. Then we were on Marina in May 2014.

 

None of these cruises had ANY problems. Not until April/May 2015 (on Marina) did we encounter Noro outbreaks. And they have happened somewhat regularly since then.

 

So what is the difference? Why none before and several later?

 

Is it perhaps more complicated than simply blaming passengers?

 

I admit that traveling on the ship while Noro is being treated is NOT fun. Even if you aren't sick yourself.

 

Mura

[TUCHIK]

Some interesting numbers from the CDC site.

 

2016 to date shows 11 noro outbreaks - one was a "joint" noro/e coli outbreak.

 

1362 passengers and 91 crew affected.

 

The mean % of passengers affected was 8.2% vs 1% of crew members.

 

The number of Riviera crew infected in 3 outbreaks was 9 (0.4%) vs. 255 (7.1%) passengers.

 

I think this, prima facie, indicates it would be safer to have crew members serve at the buffet.

[alidor]

These figures re not accurate. I am on the Marina now and did get sick and did not report it (thought it was a 24 hour stomach bug). I know of two others on this ship who were also sick and did not report it. So who knows what the accurate count is?

[RJB]

These figures re not accurate. I am on the Marina now and did get sick and did not report it (thought it was a 24 hour stomach bug). I know of two others on this ship who were also sick and did not report it. So who knows what the accurate count is?

When we were on Riviera last Feb. I did not believe that the crew was reporting when they were sick. Just my opinion, no hard facts to go on but some of these people looked sick but went to work anyway. Take this for what is worth, just what I saw myself. :(:(:(

[LHT28]

These figures re not accurate. I am on the Marina now and did get sick and did not report it (thought it was a 24 hour stomach bug). I know of two others on this ship who were also sick and did not report it. So who knows what the accurate count is?

 

True

If people do not report they are ill then how would the medical officer have a true accounting

How do you know you were not still contagious after you felt better & were out spreading the virus to others :confused:

 

That is why it is important to at least call the medical centre so they can check to make sure you are not still contagious BEFORE wandering the ship

[njhorseman]

These figures re not accurate. I am on the Marina now and did get sick and did not report it (thought it was a 24 hour stomach bug). I know of two others on this ship who were also sick and did not report it. So who knows what the accurate count is?

 

"24 hour stomach bug" doesn't exist. It's just a description of the symptoms of gastroenteritis, which is commonly caused by a virus. The most likely cause of your "24 hour stomach bug" was norovirus, and given you were on a ship where a norovirus outbreak had been identified, it's virtually certain that's what you had.

 

By not reporting it you're risking further spread of the virus to passengers and crew, because only the medical staff, not you, know when it's safe for you to be out in public.

[mpfund]

Just returned to cabin after dinner. No soap dish, reduced to 2 towels, one half used roll of tp, no back up Kleenex. Drinking glasses gone and replaced by plastic, champagne bucket gone.

 

Here's the door -- don't let it hit your ass on the way out.

[Tansy Mews]

When we were on Riviera last Feb. I did not believe that the crew was reporting when they were sick. Just my opinion, no hard facts to go on but some of these people looked sick but went to work anyway. Take this for what is worth, just what I saw myself. :(:(:(

 

We just leafy Marina.

 

The other night We asked a GDR staffer whether crew were reluctant to report. He said that they must report it and as soon as they feel sick. One o'clock in the morning or whatever. If you don't report it, you get in trouble. He also pointed out that they have room mates who will know what is going on. I think he was telling the truth!

 

Frances

[RJB]

We just leafy Marina.

 

The other night We asked a GDR staffer whether crew were reluctant to report. He said that they must report it and as soon as they feel sick. One o'clock in the morning or whatever. If you don't report it, you get in trouble. He also pointed out that they have room mates who will know what is going on. I think he was telling the truth!

 

Frances

Just saying what it looked like to me. Might have been that they just were very tired and dragging from all the extra work they were doing. They were terrific. Could not have had a better crew.

[KrautAIDA]

We are just on the marina - with the changed route = Monaco tomorrow.

In that certain roll-call we posted an offer to our cruise-mates for this destination. So if you are with us on the marina in the moment and interested in a private excursion with a taxi or local TA-Minivan to share with us from Monte Carlo - give us a call to our room/8046 rolleyes:

Rita + Andreas

[KrautAIDA]

Another idea could be to go as a group of 4-6 first to Nice by Ttain and look for the transport (Taxi) from there and in the evening we go back from Nice with the train again - or the driver gives us a good price for the full way back to Monte-Carlo?

Open for any further ideas/suggestions from interested followers=

yours :D

 

Rita + Andreas