It's Called Hygiene

[idiebabe]

I found it quite interesting that aboard NCL ships, there are crew members at every entrance to the Garden Cafe (Lido) with spray bottles of hand sanitizer. You can not pass without having your hands sprayed. Its the same concept when you board the ship. There are sanitizer stations all over the ship. Just a observation on the topic of hygiene;)

 

Hand Santitizers aren't going to stop someone who licks a spoon and puts it back into the food or does a wet sneeze into their hand and picks up a tong (after using the Hand Sanitizer)!

[OlsSalt]

I found it quite interesting that aboard NCL ships, there are crew members at every entrance to the Garden Cafe (Lido) with spray bottles of hand sanitizer. You can not pass without having your hands sprayed. Its the same concept when you board the ship. There are sanitizer stations all over the ship. Just a observation on the topic of hygiene;)

 

Please update yourself about the use of hand sanitizers and whether they are effective or not on the CDC website. They are not magic. And are never a substitute for good hand washing and paying attention to what you touch with your own finger tips. There is a reason they have been de-prioritized. CDC will explain all of this to you.

[baggal]

DH's favorite meal on a cruise is breakfast at the buffet. Fortunately, or unfortunately, after witnessing some very poor behavior on the part of fellow passengers, he has come to enjoy the virtues of a MDR breakfast. NOw, if they would only stay open a little longer in the morning we would both be happy.

 

 

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[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

I found it quite interesting that aboard NCL ships, there are crew members at every entrance to the Garden Cafe (Lido) with spray bottles of hand sanitizer. You can not pass without having your hands sprayed. Its the same concept when you board the ship. There are sanitizer stations all over the ship. Just a observation on the topic of hygiene;)

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, regular hand sanitizers do no kill norovirus. It is important to wash your hands! However, I have found a hand sanitizer online that is good for 24 hours (supposedly) and does kill norovirus. It is called Zoono hand sanitizer. I believe I bought 3 small bottles at a time from Amazon for about $15, Have been using it this winter with the flu being really bad here. Don't leave the house till I apply it, and it (supposedly) lasts all day with regular hand washing. You might want to try it on your next cruise. I am bringing it on our next cruises and give it a try vs. the regular sanitizers.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Hand Santitizers aren't going to stop someone who licks a spoon and puts it back into the food or does a wet sneeze into their hand and picks up a tong (after using the Hand Sanitizer)!

 

Amen to that!!!;)

[OlsSalt]

To the best of my knowledge, regular hand sanitizers do no kill norovirus. It is important to wash your hands! However, I have found a hand sanitizer online that is good for 24 hours (supposedly) and does kill norovirus. It is called Zoono hand sanitizer. I believe I bought 3 small bottles at a time from Amazon for about $15, Have been using it this winter with the flu being really bad here. Don't leave the house till I apply it, and it (supposedly) lasts all day with regular hand washing. You might want to try it on your next cruise. I am bringing it on our next cruises and give it a try vs. the regular sanitizers.

 

Zoono is a 70% alcohol hand sanitizer, not much different than Purell. Some versions of Zoono of it also include benzolalkonium chorlide so it can make this qualfied "24 hour protection" claim.

 

Please read up on risks and liabilities of non-alcohol hand sanitizers at the CDC website. They have now been associated with over-growth of far more pathogenic microorganisms according to the latest CDC reports. They do not encourage their use and may not even be available OTC in the US. Zoono is a New Zealand product. Ironically, US instructions say you would wash your hand immediately and thoroughly if you ever come in contact with any benzalkonium products - which are sometimes used in wound management.

 

Slavisly using these unconfirmed products for common traveler disease "prevention" merely perpetuates magic potion thinking, which they have not earned, which displaces actual attention to recommended infection fighting protocol. Benzalkonium is used to cold-sterile medical equipment, but it not something you want to put on your own skin 24-7.

 

According to CDC, the two non-alcohol products now associated with pathogen overgrowths are: benzalkonium and tricolsan, which debuted for a short period of time in toothpastes and mouth washes until it too was taken off the market for human consumption.

 

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=2e944b6c-f592-541a-e054-00144ff8d46c

[Stratheden]

DH's favorite meal on a cruise is breakfast at the buffet. Fortunately, or unfortunately, after witnessing some very poor behavior on the part of fellow passengers, he has come to enjoy the virtues of a MDR breakfast. NOw, if they would only stay open a little longer in the morning we would both be happy.

 

 

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My DH loves the oatmeal at the Lido (says it is different from the MDR?????), I love the relaxed MDR. So we eat breakfast separately and we are both happy. :D:D:D

[sofietucker]

1. If, after the Lido and MDR sanitizer pole has been standing alone for a few days--perhaps with a greeter--a second person appears alongside with a jug of sanitizer and they insist on dousing you, that's a clear sign that noro has been discovered.

2. Noro can be among the crew too, and they are very eager to eradicate it. If you see any with facemasks--not obviously back from handling noxious substances below decks--that's a clue that they may have a cold, flu etc. (NO ONE with noro is allowed to work, I've been told.)

3. Anyone who's had noro tends to be pretty anxious not to get it again and will be among the most consistent to protect against germs. (We've both gotten it twice, shortly after disembarking...) I never use my hands on railings, etc. Where I must, I use elbows, outer side of non-dominant hand, elevator buttons get a knuckle or a poke from an object... Ever think about your cruise card being handled by several people? Staff aren't always washing their hands either...those chlorox wipes are good.

4. Thank god they've moved the bread pudding behind the counter, though I feel for the server who now faces the wrath of the addicts.

[cruisemom42]

I'm not convinced people are becoming worse in regards to hygiene. In fact, I suspect the opposite -- people are becoming fussier.

 

Perhaps I am very unobservant or perhaps I just have better things to do than watch the behavior of others with eagle eyes at the buffet -- but I've never seen some of the things listed here.

 

There are so many ways that we are exposed to viruses whenever we are in close quarters with others that any "precautions" we can take are more or less the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

For every person who swears that they've never gotten sick because they wipe everything in their cabin down and never touch elevator buttons, there's another (like me) who has never taken any of those precautions and has never gotten sick.

 

If it makes someone feel better to do it, I suppose there's not a huge downside -- although I do share some of the concerns expressed about downstream effects of the overuse of hand sanitizers and heavy duty cleaning agents.

[frankc98376]

Best prevention is never touch you face or eyes unless you have just washed your hands.

 

People wipe down cabins and never touch elevator buttons or railings.

 

Maybe it is pulling a chair out to sit or grabbing a plate or glass. At some point we will touch something that has been touched by others.

 

Wash frequently and keep hands away from face and likely will only need to be concerned about airborne bugs.

[JT1962]

There are so many ways that we are exposed to viruses whenever we are in close quarters with others that any "precautions" we can take are more or less the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

 

 

For every person who swears that they've never gotten sick because they wipe everything in their cabin down and never touch elevator buttons, there's another (like me) who has never taken any of those precautions and has never gotten sick.

 

 

 

If it makes someone feel better to do it, I suppose there's not a huge downside -- although I do share some of the concerns expressed about downstream effects of the overuse of hand sanitizers and heavy duty cleaning agents.

 

 

I agree with you. I do wash my hands, but don’t carry wipes, refuse to touch handrails, elevator buttons, etc. as others mention. I have never gotten sick on a cruise or an airplane (or after a trip). Maybe I have just been lucky, but I think some are more susceptible than others in getting certain types of illnesses.

 

A quick Google search found studies where groups were exposed to norovirus and some became ill and others did not. They found genetic and blood type differences in those that became ill vs those that did not. So maybe genetics and blood type plays as much of a part as hygiene as to who gets sick.

 

 

 

 

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Edited February 11, 2018 by JT1962

[Epicureangirl]

I'm not convinced people are becoming worse in regards to hygiene. In fact, I suspect the opposite -- people are becoming fussier.

 

Perhaps I am very unobservant or perhaps I just have better things to do than watch the behavior of others with eagle eyes at the buffet -- but I've never seen some of the things listed here.

 

There are so many ways that we are exposed to viruses whenever we are in close quarters with others that any "precautions" we can take are more or less the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

For every person who swears that they've never gotten sick because they wipe everything in their cabin down and never touch elevator buttons, there's another (like me) who has never taken any of those precautions and has never gotten sick.

 

If it makes someone feel better to do it, I suppose there's not a huge downside -- although I do share some of the concerns expressed about downstream effects of the overuse of hand sanitizers and heavy duty cleaning agents.

 

 

I'm with you on this one. I also think we are a lot tougher then people think (unless you have a compromised immune system). People think that it's terrible seeing what their fellow passengers do and the potential spread of germs, but they might not eat in many restaurants if they could scrutinize the practices in the kitchen. :o There's a reason kitchens are hidden from view... hahaha.

[dce85]

What I appreciated on the Koningsdam was that the hand sanitizer stations have been replaced by hand washing stations. You put your hands in the tubes for maybe a minute to have them washed before you get your food. Now to get people to use them.

 

 

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[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Zoono is a 70% alcohol hand sanitizer, not much different than Purell. Some versions of Zoono of it also include benzolalkonium chorlide so it can make this qualfied "24 hour protection" claim.

 

Please read up on risks and liabilities of non-alcohol hand sanitizers at the CDC website. They have now been associated with over-growth of far more pathogenic microorganisms according to the latest CDC reports. They do not encourage their use and may not even be available OTC in the US. Zoono is a New Zealand product. Ironically, US instructions say you would wash your hand immediately and thoroughly if you ever come in contact with any benzalkonium products - which are sometimes used in wound management.

 

Slavisly using these unconfirmed products for common traveler disease "prevention" merely perpetuates magic potion thinking, which they have not earned, which displaces actual attention to recommended infection fighting protocol. Benzalkonium is used to cold-sterile medical equipment, but it not something you want to put on your own skin 24-7.

 

According to CDC, the two non-alcohol products now associated with pathogen overgrowths are: benzalkonium and tricolsan, which debuted for a short period of time in toothpastes and mouth washes until it too was taken off the market for human consumption.

 

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=2e944b6c-f592-541a-e054-00144ff8d46c

 

Wow, I guess at this point we just wash our hands constantly and hope for the best!

I don't use the stuff every day, just when going out to a grocery store or the like right now. And no real need in the summer, I have just used it during flu season and will take a small bottle on the ship. Just thought it might be a small "help". I have heard folks say they used it on cruises and did not get sick with norovirus. Maybe they were just "lucky". Who knows????

I do know that regular hand sanitizers are not worth much. Hand washing is...and we do that very often.

[Copper10-8]

It's called common sense, which is not always that common in some people :cool:

[cccole]

It's called common sense, which is not always that common in some people :cool:

Really? Common sense is not common? Shocking!!!!!

 

I do not use hand sanitizers because of previous mentioned issues, but I wash my hands frequently, do not touch any part of my face after being out before a hand washing. When soap and water are not available I prefer wipes to actually cleanse away harmful germs.

 

I also do not assume that everyone shows up to dine on a cruise ship without previously thinking of hygiene. Personally, I would return to my cabin and order room service before using a hand sanitizer. Wipes yes, hand sanitizer no. JMO Cherie

[Copper10-8]

Really? Common sense is not common? Shocking!!!!!

 

I do not use hand sanitizers because of previous mentioned issues, but I wash my hands frequently, do not touch any part of my face after being out before a hand washing. When soap and water are not available I prefer wipes to actually cleanse away harmful germs.

 

I also do not assume that everyone shows up to dine on a cruise ship without previously thinking of hygiene. Personally, I would return to my cabin and order room service before using a hand sanitizer. Wipes yes, hand sanitizer no. JMO Cherie

 

Surprising, ain't it?

[pcur]

Do you wash your hands after you serve yourself? After you have used the tongs? Many people don't! I've seen people sneeze into their hands and pick up a ladle or tong right after it. Thanks but no thanks! Much rather the Crew member serve it for me!

 

Yes, we do clean our hands after going through the buffet line anywhere. It's hand sanitizer, but better than nothing. I make both of us do this, and when we grab something to eat at Costco, I use hand sanitizer and napkins to clean the table where we eat. Have you ever seen the filthy tables where people sit and eat at Costco?

[GRACECRUISE]

In December on our Rotterdam cruise, a lady in a long ice cream line asked the server to change her glove explaining that:

The other passengers on the ship do not wash their hands like they should and your glove touched their hand when you gave them the ice cream.

 

She changed her glove scooped the ice cream and gave it to her. The man behind said quietly - I'll give you a hundred dollars if you will sneeze on her.

[navybankerteacher]

Really? Common sense is not common? Shocking!!!!!

 

I do not use hand sanitizers because of previous mentioned issues, but I wash my hands frequently, do not touch any part of my face after being out before a hand washing. When soap and water are not available I prefer wipes to actually cleanse away harmful germs.

 

I also do not assume that everyone shows up to dine on a cruise ship without previously thinking of hygiene. Personally, I would return to my cabin and order room service before using a hand sanitizer. Wipes yes, hand sanitizer no. JMO Cherie

 

This is an interesting reaction to the possible over-use and limited effectiveness of hand sanitizes. Sure, they are not the best - but they certainly do help. Also, wouldn't plain wipes merely rearrange whatever is on your hands? It is the sanitizer on the wipes which gives them much of their effectiveness.

[cccole]

This is an interesting reaction to the possible over-use and limited effectiveness of hand sanitizes. Sure, they are not the best - but they certainly do help. Also, wouldn't plain wipes merely rearrange whatever is on your hands? It is the sanitizer on the wipes which gives them much of their effectiveness.

 

Actually I consider using a cleansing wipe to remove the dirt or germs on my hands because I can throw it in the trash. I prefer this to a hand sanitizer which "rearranges whatever is on your hands." Not all wipes contain an anti-bacterial agent. Cleansing agent yes...anti-bacterial no. This is just my preference. I think that a good hand wipe is a good substitute to soap and water. I have no problem with others who prefer a hand sanitizer, whatever works for you. JMO Cherie

[cbr663]

There is still one place on some HAL ships that has self service. It's the Taco bar outside the Dive-In ordering window. There are containers of all kinds of food, tortillas, taco shells and the goodies that go in them. It's all self-serve. But I have sat at a nearby table and watched a person grab the spoon for the sour cream, load a few dollops on her plate, then proceed to lick the spoon and put it back in the tub of sour cream. We called attention of this to the Dive-In persons and they replaced it immediately. The person who did this couldn't understand what the problem was and was amused by the whole incident.

The older style by-the-slice self-serve pizza in the Lido (before NY Pizza was added) is another area of problems. I waited to grab a few slices and a person in front of me was pulling pepperoni slices off of the pizzas, with her fingers, and adding the extras to her slice on her plate. I guess we are in a #me-first world, and some people are absolute slobs. They eat in public restaurants like they eat at home, and get annoyed to even hostile if you call them on their actions. I'm all for the few minutes delay caused by HAL servers doing the serving. I never had a problem asking for an extra slice of meat or a 2nd scoop of mashed, the HAL servers are happy to get what you want. A few minutes delay in the Lido is far better than 4 days stuck in the bathroom with an intestinal bug.

 

Yours are great examples of if the food is uncovered and self serve, it is most likely contaminated. You should simply pass on it.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Yours are great examples of if the food is uncovered and self serve, it is most likely contaminated. You should simply pass on it.

 

I am really starting to agree. Since I heard that tale about the sour cream spoon, and the pepperoni pilfering, I am kind of spooked. Don't know if I will ever trust that kind of situation again........trying to deal with it/get over it.

I am sure it will be okay, I hope it was an isolated incident, not the norm.! :eek:

[3rdGenCunarder]

Actually I consider using a cleansing wipe to remove the dirt or germs on my hands because I can throw it in the trash. I prefer this to a hand sanitizer which "rearranges whatever is on your hands." Not all wipes contain an anti-bacterial agent. Cleansing agent yes...anti-bacterial no. This is just my preference. I think that a good hand wipe is a good substitute to soap and water. I have no problem with others who prefer a hand sanitizer, whatever works for you. JMO Cherie

 

I agree about the wipes. They do remove dirt and germs, not "rearrange" them.

 

I know a doctor whose specialty is infectious diseases. I asked him once, "So ships have these squirt things of Purel--" and he stopped me right there saying "Not good enough! Wash your hands or use a wipe. Don't rely on liquid hand sanitizers." He went on to say that Disney hands out wipes. When we were in St Thomas on our recent cruise, I walked by the Disney ship that was next to us. Sure enough, on tables near the gangway they had large dispensers of wipes.

 

Of course, wipes are more expensive and then there's the burden of disposing of them properly. But they are better than the liquid stuff.

[OlsSalt]

What I appreciated on the Koningsdam was that the hand sanitizer stations have been replaced by hand washing stations. You put your hands in the tubes for maybe a minute to have them washed before you get your food. Now to get people to use them.

 

 

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20 seconds is the recommended washing time which pretty much matches the ones I have used on the Veendam and the Rotterdam. It is quick and easy and feels a lot more thorough than that sticky mess, because you get to flush everything away rather than just rub it around with dubious products, which are more bactericides than viracides.