Is the Era of Cutbacks Over?

[bookitdanno]

Our research has led us to book a 21 day cruise on MSC's Divina...in its so-called Yacht Club. The cost of their Yacht Club cabins (not the suites) is about 1/3 of the cost of an ultra-luxury line...and it provides a ship within a ship experience with its own MDR, deluxe drink package, and a private section of the ship (including pool, lounge, cafe, butlers, etc).

 

Hank

 

Hank,

 

I have not been able to find this, so perhaps you can help me.

What cabin categories are yacht Club, but not suites?

Maybe a cabin number???

 

Thanks

George

[TommyD3]

I would respectfully disagree with the premise that"until recently all the changes were negative, designed to save money". Some of the changes were positive and some of these positive changes were designed to increase income. Whether a change was positive or negative might be in the eye of the beholder, here are a few examples of changes that have been more positive for me: The addition of Loyalty Levels has increased benefits for many. Elite+ brings more laundry and internet benefits and free specialty coffee and tea at Al Bacio. Zenith level brings a Premium Drink Package and unlimited internet and laundry to those who achieve that level. These benefits were not available to the most loyal cruisers before the change in levels. Michael's Club has been a real benefit to Suite passengers, Zeniths and top Blue Chip members. Luminae has been a welcome dining option for many Suite passengers.The Aqua Class change and Blu has become a choice for many who are attracted to that type of experience. The addition of specialty dining options on Silhouette and Reflection added to dining choices for those who are willing to pay. IMHO these and other positive changes have increased the bottom line by attracting higher margin passengers to repeatedly book a Celebrity cruise. There is a very high demand for these additional options and if you don't book a top Suite early you will be most likely unable to book it. As with almost any policy change there are always "winners and losers", on the whole the changes listed make me a winner.

Many welcome changes but implemented at least four years ago....

[helen haywood]

Hank,

 

 

 

I have not been able to find this, so perhaps you can help me.

 

What cabin categories are yacht Club, but not suites?

 

Maybe a cabin number???

 

 

 

Thanks

 

George

 

 

 

Any cabin designated YC (1 or 2 or whatever) is in the Yacht Club. Some ships have YC interior cabins. Otherwise they are called “suites” but they are the size of a regular balcony cabin.

 

 

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[Host Jazzbeau]

Orator — No question that amenities and perks for Suite pax have made X a great choice. This thread is about the experience of regular (Inside to Veranda) passengers. That’s where all the complaints about cutbacks come from. I agree that these passengers have experienced nothing but cutbacks over the last 10 years or so (although prices did stay low throughout that period). The recent change is that the experience available to all passengers is finally starting to improve.

[Cyber Kat]

We experienced exactly the same thing. Since Suites and Aqua are pushed with their own Dining, the MDR has become unacceptable to us. If we want to pay more, we might as well try other lines and we are. After being elite plus with Celeb we are trying Viking Ocean. Less pricey than suites and aqua with all the specialty dining included.

 

 

Having just finished our first cruise with Viking Ocean, I’m happy to report that it was fabulous! The service was excellent. The ship was gorgeous. Just don’t expect big production shows or a casino. They do have a variety of live music at various venues throughout the ship. We have booked another.

 

 

 

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[Host Jazzbeau]

Having just finished our first cruise with Viking Ocean, I’m happy to report that it was fabulous! The service was excellent. The ship was gorgeous. Just don’t expect big production shows or a casino. They do have a variety of live music at various venues throughout the ship. We have booked another.

 

Also don't expect Celebrity Veranda prices on Viking. Our upcoming Viking British Isles Explorer cruise (in a PV1, which is midway in size between Viking's basic veranda and their first-level suite cabins) is the most expensive ocean cruise we have ever taken [$664 per person per night; vs. Azamara Club Continent Suite @ $488 pppn in 2017 or Celebrity Celebrity Suite @ $277 pppn in 2016].

[villauk]

Also don't expect Celebrity Veranda prices on Viking. Our upcoming Viking British Isles Explorer cruise (in a PV1, which is midway in size between Viking's basic veranda and their first-level suite cabins) is the most expensive ocean cruise we have ever taken [$664 per person per night; vs. Azamara Club Continent Suite @ $488 pppn in 2017 or Celebrity Celebrity Suite @ $277 pppn in 2016].

 

Did you check the price of the Celebrity Suite for this year on the same itinerary to compare, or even a more comparable cabin? I would hazard a guess that the Celebrity Suite would be greater for 2018 than the price in 2016 (wasn’t that the year when you got your first experience in a suite as the prices in Europe were plummeting :confused:?).

[Cyber Kat]

Also don't expect Celebrity Veranda prices on Viking. Our upcoming Viking British Isles Explorer cruise (in a PV1, which is midway in size between Viking's basic veranda and their first-level suite cabins) is the most expensive ocean cruise we have ever taken [$664 per person per night; vs. Azamara Club Continent Suite @ $488 pppn in 2017 or Celebrity Celebrity Suite @ $277 pppn in 2016].

 

 

We were in PV1 for our West Indies cruise, that just ended. We booked the same - exact same [emoji16]- cabin for our Eastern Seaboard (Canada & NE) cruise next year. We had done a Viking River cruise in 2016, so we knew what to expect in the way of pricing.

 

We are at a point where we know what we want and we know that the mainstream lines can no longer provide that. So we have a choice to pay more for what we want, or decide to settle for less. I realize that many don’t have that option, but we’re not leaving any inheritances, nor do we want our retirement fund going to a nursing home [emoji12]. We are going to spend it while we can still do thing.

 

We just booked an Azamara cruise as a fill in because the timing was right and the itinerary was intriguing.

 

I’ve been reading the Celebrity boards along with several others to investigate what our options might be. I’m not forming a monogamous relationship with any cruise line [emoji16]. I’d heard good things about Celebrity and the have ships home ported within driving distance. But from what I’m reading here, I’m not sure it’s going to be a good fit.

 

I am looking forward to our Azamara experiences.

 

 

 

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[TeeRick]

K12 guy- yes I am not longer cruising with X, but I still check the X- boards- so in way I still care about my once ( 20 something cruises with them) favorite cruise line (after 6 or so times with RCI, Costa- just once- that was quite enough). I had high hopes for the Egde- but nothing there really " catches" me. I turned to Cunard and Holland- Cunard is what X once was- Holland- very similiar - though it has been a while since my last HAL cruise- I will find out at the end of the year! I am a ship buff- so the Cunard ships are just a little like stepping back in time. Service is outstanding, food - well - some love it - some not- as usual with food, i like it! Cunard still has the prommendade deck that wraps around the whole ship. High tea in the Queen Lounge- for free- you can upgrade if you so wish with buying champagne!

If you enter one of the Cunard liners at embarkation day- the bell boys are lined up to greet you- not really important- but it gives one a nice feeling of welcome! It´s the little things that summs up- things X got rid of in the last few years- with their " modern luxury nonense"- modern rip off would be the better slogan!

 

G-cruiser - people on the Holland and Cunard boards also complain about cutbacks compared to their past experiences. Everything in the cruise industry is dynamic and changing constantly. Lots of new ships laden with technology and features now cost upwards of $1B USD in some cases. That is the major change driving pricing and perceived cutbacks from the past. Although some old time cruisers here would disagree, most would rather sail on newer ships with, for example, improved stability and safety features, nicer cabins, balconies, restaurant choices, WiFi, spas, fitness areas, etc. as opposed to having the older, smaller ships with far less features - even if you got a larger bar of soap or chocolates on your pillow. The SHIPS are the positive changes everybody is missing here!

[Silkroad]

G-cruiser - people on the Holland and Cunard boards also complain about cutbacks compared to their past experiences. Everything in the cruise industry is dynamic and changing constantly. Lots of new ships laden with technology and features now cost upwards of $1B USD in some cases. That is the major change driving pricing and perceived cutbacks from the past. Although some old time cruisers here would disagree, most would rather sail on newer ships with, for example, improved stability and safety features, nicer cabins, balconies, restaurant choices, WiFi, spas, fitness areas, etc. as opposed to having the older, smaller ships with far less features - even if you got a larger bar of soap or chocolates on your pillow. The SHIPS are the positive changes everybody is missing here!

I agree. We’re intrigued by some Azamara itineraries, for example, but we’ve hesitated to book them, partly because of the older ships. We don’t find every Celebrity change or cutback significant, and we do see some positives to offset the negatives. Of course, this opinion could change should we experience a significant degradation of our future cruise experiences. I refer to degradations that can reasonably be attributed to Celebrity, not things such as missed ports due to medical emergencies or weather, or weather affecting the ability to tender.

[dabear]

Ronbe65; IMHO,we disagree that ships are the foremost thing that defines the quality of the cruise experience.

We don't like waiting in line for dining, embarking, touring, departure, activities, pool hogs, etc. We prefer good restaurant quality food (not mass market banquet food), good service, not waiting forever for a bar server, getting seats in the theater without going way ahead of time., etc. We don't climb walls & some of the neuvo actiities. On smaller ships you actually see pax more than one time & perhaps get to know them. Newer small; or midsize ships of Viking, Regent, Oceania & others are doing quite well & the older r class ships still have elegance but without the newer bells & whistles.

 

The ships are important, but so is the itinerary, price and overall experience.

[Quo Vadis?]

Maybe someone is missing this but not me.

The ship is the most and foremost thing that defines the quality of the cruising experience. I am the one who focuses on the ships.

The worst thing about modern cruising is that every new ship is designed by bean counters, and is worse than the previous one. Every major "upgrade" of the existing ships is nothing more that tricky deteriorating of the product.

Exeptions are few and far in between.

The best cruise ship afloat was built in 2010.

 

 

Thank you for that summary. As someone who is missing the "I was treaty like royalty" on Celebrity in an ad campaign a decade ago, I'm looking for something different than something sinful that the Edge class promises.

[CaribbeanBound]

I saw the title of this thread and it made me laugh...

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[The_Big_M]

Royal Caribbean

New ships: floating apartment building (Anthem): more pax (vs comparable Freedom-class), less space pp, reduced deck space, narrowed cabins, proper promenade gone, observation deck gone, more $$ dining options, the public lounge is gone.

A fleetwide raid against any free public space where additional cabins were not added yet.

Suite privileges are growing taking up public space (iconic Crown & Anchor Lounge is gone on the newest ship).

 

A lot of your comments are subjective, though written as definitive. For example, I see Quantum class as the best RCL ship design yet, with the most relaxing and entertaining lounges, interesting spaces and multi purpose activities. It's certainly true that there are more pax (though that is pretty much the same as every line, including the 2008 ships which you say were the best, compared to their predecessors - they also had more passengers!). You say certain things are gone, which is true, but then other things are added. Who's to say which is better - that is why it is subjective.

 

 

And you're certainly correct that their refurbs pack more cabins in, and degrade public spaces. I only say Quantum is best until their inevitable refurb when they will presumably do the same. However, that doesn't mean a certain ship is better than the others, as that is a company practice they do to all ships.

 

 

While I acknowledge mine is equally just a view and others may disagree, as you apparently would, it doesn't mean my view is definitive.

[TeeRick]

Maybe someone is missing this but not me.

The ship is the most and foremost thing that defines the quality of the cruising experience. I am the one who focuses on the ships.

The worst thing about modern cruising is that every new ship is designed by bean counters, and is worse than the previous one. Every major "upgrade" of the existing ships is nothing more that tricky deteriorating of the product.

Exeptions are few and far in between.

The best cruise ship afloat was built in 2010.

 

Carnival

Their best ship was built in 2008 (Splendor). Those who may disagree please read and answer this question (https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=55306214&postcount=21)

The next platform (Dream-class) is more crowded with space/facilities pp reduced.

The newest version (Vista-class): even more pax, spa almost gone, even less space pp, restricted access to formerly public space (Havana cabanas).

Princess

New platform (Royal Princess): more pax, promenade gone, observation lounge (Skywalkers) gone, forward deck gone, tiny balconies.

Holland America

New platform(Koningsdam): more pax, reduced space pp, proper promenade gone, top sun deck gone, smaller theater, reduction in spa.

Cunard

Even the QM2 has no mercy. More cabins added on top, reduced open deck space, cabins added instead of some public space (!!) on decks 2-3.

The new Cunard ship will be a modified version of the Koningsdam (!)

Royal Caribbean

New ships: floating apartment building (Anthem): more pax (vs comparable Freedom-class), less space pp, reduced deck space, narrowed cabins, proper promenade gone, observation deck gone, more $$ dining options, the public lounge is gone.

A fleetwide raid against any free public space where additional cabins were not added yet.

Suite privileges are growing taking up public space (iconic Crown & Anchor Lounge is gone on the newest ship).

Celebrity

Eclipse>>Silhouette>>Reflection: added passengers, reduced public space with every new ship.

Growing suite privileges.

Edge: more growing suite privileges, more public space taken by suite perks. Aggressive to the point of insanity ad campaign.

MSC

More pax, less space pp with every new ship. Smaller cabins on new ships. Class segregation is more visible, reduced quality for "steerage".

 

Anything positive?

Yes.

NCL Breakaway/Getaway are the two out of four megaships over the decade that are improvement over the previous platform (Epic). Unfortunately NCL then "dropped the ball" with the Escape. The newest Bliss is coming with some controversy (may be better or worse).

 

Which are the other two?

Although it was back in 2012, need to mention Costa Favolosa/Facsinosa that are improved Concordia class.

 

Standing out are the two new startups.

TUI Cruises (RCI related German brand) rolled out a beautiful Mein Schiff 3 (best ship built after 2010).

They have had enough courage for two ships only (MS 3 and MS 4).

After MS4 the brand has turned downhill (malignant imfluence of RCI?)

 

The other one is Viking Ocean Cruises.

Their family of near 50,000 GT sister ships is a revolution in the so-called "luxury" or near "luxury" category: a "luxury" cruise ship looks like a real cruise ship, not like a floating box with a buil-in boutique nursing home.

 

Just for the record: I am putting aside transformations of the more specific brands like Disney and AIDA.

 

That said, I am not going to stop cruising.

1. Despite the invasion of boring floating apartment buildings (just built and coming soon) there are still plenty of real cruise ships to cruise comme il faut.

2. We'll cruise on those floating boxes if necessary, because cruising is a pleasure.

 

Enjoy your cruises!

 

I agree that you know about and focus on the ships. Your criteria for judging ships is very subjective and of course that is fine as it is your impressions and opinion that you are sharing here. You seem to base your evaluations on amount of public space vs added cabins, and the presence of suite-only amenities, as well as a bias against the floating hotel (boxes) concept with a lot of activities vs the older ocean-liner feel. Am I on track or have I misstated your criteria?

[20pluscruises]

Since DW and I started cruising seriously in 2011, there have been so many threads on this board and many others that are all 'the sky is falling – cutbacks everywhere' :eek: But now the news on culinary, entertainment and shore excursions tends to be about improvements. Not a return to the old menus [couldn't care less about prime rib and baked Alaska] but an update to 21st century adventuresome food and immersive shore excursions.

 

Celebrity Edge will have a record number of dining options [including a record number of included ones] and all new specialty menus. Also new entertainment [especially in Eden]. And the 'Uniquely Celebrity' shore excursions.

 

HAL is touting their new culinary offerings. Now comes this article about Princess:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=8527

with really interesting-sounding shore excursions and new menu items.

 

 

Could this mean that the decade of cutbacks is coming to a close and mainstream cruise lines will again be competing on quality? Hope springs eternal!

 

Loved Luminae in November 2017. Very disappointing in March 2018. All I could think of is how bad is the MDR if Luminae is this bad? Maybe the difference is due to the Chef on your ship?

[boom_boom]

Yes, cruises continue to be a relatively good value for room board, transportation and entertainment all rolled into a single package.

BUT, like many of the OPs I've only seen cutbacks in 20 years of cruises. Sure, they tout the special dining venues, but they come at a cost - not an upgrade to me.

We will continue to cruise, but I can't think of a single feature that has been "upgraded" without an additional cost to go with it.

We have 1 more X cruise booked; and if my cost-benefit analysis come out the same as last time with the beverage package, special dining, I think it will be the last and we'll move to a more all-inclusive cruise line.

[Bo1953]

Ronbe65; IMHO,we disagree that ships are the foremost thing that defines the quality of the cruise experience.

We don't like waiting in line for dining, embarking, touring, departure, activities, pool hogs, etc. We prefer good restaurant quality food (not mass market banquet food), good service, not waiting forever for a bar server, getting seats in the theater without going way ahead of time., etc. We don't climb walls & some of the neuvo actiities. On smaller ships you actually see pax more than one time & perhaps get to know them. Newer small; or midsize ships of Viking, Regent, Oceania & others are doing quite well & the older r class ships still have elegance but without the newer bells & whistles.

 

The ships are important, but so is the itinerary, price and overall experience.

 

Rated: A++

 

Thank you for bringing to the forefront other areas of importance when sailing... overall.

 

Important to acknowledge and include as well.

 

bon voyage

[Lastdance]

Ronbe65,

"Built-in boutique nursing home" - great idea for a new class of cabin? I had to read that again! My DH and I were laughing so hard, that we almost booked a Viking cruise...actually, we have been looking at several...any yes, we want to enjoy our retirement too, as there is no need to leave any money to the kids...w only have two cruises booked and might take a sabbatical from Celebrity, especially if Edge is too confining for all passengers...time will tell, as we are not getting any younger! Thanks for the laugh!

[Germancruiser]

Rombe- i agree whole hearted- you summed it up great- and so so true.