Ship to Replace Anthem in Bayonne

[gaylemh]

1 hour ago, steveru621 said:

When you count the broken windows in the WindJammer on the Explorer a few years ago, sure there's been no problem.

 

I remember returning in the winter when they would not allow anyone on deck 11 or 12, and deck 5. Then getting to CT and finding 3 feet of snow.

 

It's not rare.

My worst weather cruise was in May to Bermuda, all decks were closed going, rained in Bermuda, and to windy on deck coming back to be outside.  I have done over 20 sailings in winter out of Bayonne, so far I have never had bad weather either getting on the ship or off. Cold yes, but not bad weather.

[A&L_Ont]

10 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Hard to enjoy the dinner, shows, breakfast all while potentially being cooped up inside because the outer decks are closed.

 

I'd wager your view is in the minority, otherwise the cruise lines would already be doing it year 'round and also because most people can't take more than a week of vacation at a time.

 

 

I'm with you Pratique.   However, boscobeans makes valid points, if you live withing driving distance of Bayonne.

 

For us to travel from from Toronto to Newark, over Florida, it is 1 hour VS 2.5 hours of actual flight time.  Either way, it is an entire day lost to travel for us.  In the winter there is no way we'd give up the first and last day on a ship to cold weather, when we have limited time.  We did it once from Galveston, on our 3rd cruise and once was enough. 

 

I would consider Bayonne in the summer, but not on the current Oasis itinerary option.  The port selections leave a lot to be desired.  It really is what works for the individual. 

[Pratique]

Just now, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

I'm with you Pratique.   However, boscobeans makes valid points, if you live withing driving distance of Bayonne.

 

For us to travel from from Toronto to Newark, over Florida, it is 1 hour VS 2.5 hours of actual flight time.  Either way, it is an entire day lost to travel for us.  In the winter there is no way we'd give up the first and last day on a ship to cold weather, when we have limited time.  We did it once from Galveston, on our 3rd cruise and once was enough. 

 

I would consider Bayonne in the summer, but not on the current Oasis itinerary option.  The port selections leave a lot to be desired.  It really is what works for the individual. 

All things being equal I would rather sail from New York too. But not all things are equal. You can’t get to the Caribbean and back in 7 days. And that’s what most people want. That’s my only real point here.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Robo1098 said:

Can Oasis port in Bermuda? I haven't seen any itineraries going there. That is the only way I would have interest sailing Oasis out of the northeast.
 

 

Oasis can not dock in Bermuda. 

[boscobeans]

31 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

I'm with you Pratique.   However, boscobeans makes valid points, if you live withing driving distance of Bayonne.

 

For us to travel from from Toronto to Newark, over Florida, it is 1 hour VS 2.5 hours of actual flight time.  Either way, it is an entire day lost to travel for us.  In the winter there is no way we'd give up the first and last day on a ship to cold weather, when we have limited time.  We did it once from Galveston, on our 3rd cruise and once was enough. 

 

I would consider Bayonne in the summer, but not on the current Oasis itinerary option.  The port selections leave a lot to be desired.  It really is what works for the individual. 

 

The last NCL cruise we did was 14 days from NYC to the Southern Caribbean in the frigid month of February.

 

I would bet you that at least half of the jam packed Breakaway (pretty big ship) was from Canada. French seemed like the common language while on board.. LOL

 

There are all kinds of people and they all have different opinions.

I do understand your point and see how time restraints affect your decisions.

 

Happy cruising to all.

Edited December 14, 2018 by boscobeans

[A&L_Ont]

4 minutes ago, Pratique said:

All things being equal I would rather sail from New York too. But not all things are equal. You can’t get to the Caribbean and back in 7 days. And that’s what most people want. That’s my only real point here.

 

Agree with you 100%. 

 

I'd like to try it once and on Oasis, but PE and the Bahamas is not what I would pick for ports of call.  Now, if they had a 9 day summer itinerary it would be a very interesting option.

[Charles4515]

57 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

As of 2011 according the Bermuda officials the North Channel that leads to the Naval Dockyard is almost 500 feet wide and allows ships with a maximum draft of 33 feet.

 

Compare the Oasis at 1184 feet in length to Anthem at 1142

The Oasis has a draft of 31feet vs the Anthem's 29 feet.

 

I am sure the navigation people at RCCL can easily figure out if The Oasis can port there..

 

 

There was dredging done after 2011 so that Anthem and Breakaway which also has a 29 foot draft could dock. They also had to build a new dock,  Heritage Wharf to accomodate Breakaway and Anthem size ships. Those size ships can not dock at King's Wharf, only Heritage Wharf. Oasis class can not dock at either wharf as they are  now. King's Wharf is currently being rebuilt but  according to the head of the Bermuda Tourist Authority that does not include being able to be used by Oasis class, 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Charles4515

[Pratique]

5 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Agree with you 100%. 

 

I'd like to try it once and on Oasis, but PE and the Bahamas is not what I would pick for ports of call.  Now, if they had a 9 day summer itinerary it would be a very interesting option.

Yes I’m disappointed with the itineraries too. The only one that looks fun is the single six nighter to Portland, Saint John and Halifax (even though those are all within driving distance) in June, but I’m not sure I want to pay the going rate for it. We’ll see....

[A&L_Ont]

2 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

The last NCL cruise we did was 14 days from NYC to the Southern Caribbean in the frigid month of February.

 

I would bet you that at least half of the jam packed Breakaway (pretty big ship) was from Canada. English seemed like the common language while on board.. LOL

 

There are all kinds of people and they all have different opinions.  I do understand your point and see how time restraints affect your decisions.

 

Happy cruising to all.

 

You could very well be 100% right to the highlighted above.  That being said the ships in the Caribbean are filled with even more people from the Frozen North. The best thing is there are options, and there are options for most everyone.  

 

The way it looks outside my window I'd cruise to anywhere south right now; departing from exotic Bayonne, Galveston or Port Canaveral.😀

[Robo1098]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Oasis can not dock in Bermuda. 

Sorry, I know as I live in Florida I am biased but I don't see the sense in bringing Oasis up north. So many open areas that won't be usable when it cools off. I know that is why they are limiting the months up there but when I saw the move I was hoping that at least they would sail to Bermuda. The ports it is going to go are the least appealing of all for me. Just personal opinion.

 

[nelblu]

3 hours ago, gaylemh said:

My worst weather cruise was in May to Bermuda, all decks were closed going, rained in Bermuda, and to windy on deck coming back to be outside.  I have done over 20 sailings in winter out of Bayonne, so far I have never had bad weather either getting on the ship or off. Cold yes, but not bad weather.

 

The worst weather was our first Quantum cruise.  It was a late January 11 niter to the Southern Carib., it was sleeting and slippery, and had to take rail to Newark Penn and then taxi to Port Liberty.  Once on board it was eerie seeing the gloomy weather for 2x70.  Next day, our balcony rail was iced over.  Got decent weather the following and rest of the cruise.  When we got back, the wind chill factor was somewhere in the 0 - -10. 

 

Now someone would says WOW, but consider if we were sailing out of Florida with these conditions, and don't know if we would have made it.

 

This was our first cruise out of Bayonne and glad we sailed.  Got 11 nites for the price of a 7 niter out of Florida and also saved a few bucks in addition..  Other than a couple of Easter cruises on Allure & Oasis with family, we have sailed from Bayonne on the Anthem some 4 times and it includes a 12 niter and 9 niters to NE/Canada.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Robo1098 said:

Sorry, I know as I live in Florida I am biased but I don't see the sense in bringing Oasis up north. So many open areas that won't be usable when it cools off. I know that is why they are limiting the months up there but when I saw the move I was hoping that at least they would sail to Bermuda. The ports it is going to go are the least appealing of all for me. Just personal opinion.

 

 

I agree the ports Oasis is doing are not appealing but I hope they never sail an Oasis Class ship to Bermuda. The Dockyard is already very crowded when two cruise ships are in port at the same time. My understanding is that at this time Bermuda is not inclined to upgrade the port for Oasis class ships. Of course that could change if Royal throws a pile a money to the government but I hope it doesn't happen.

[Ourusualbeach]

On 12/9/2018 at 2:14 PM, Sunfun68 said:

I am not sure what you mean by "structurally".  If you are referring to the number of passengers, that is  certainly a possibility.  You are however, absolutely incorrect about the additional 40 foot length not being able to be accommodated.  As long as the Oasis docks in the seaward berth it could EASILY dock at the Royal Dockyard.  You are absolutely incorrect about the channel.  As I mentioned previously, these channels are dredged out to several times the width of the Anthem and are about 42' deep.  The Oasis on a human scale appears much larger than the Anthem, but on a scale of moving through these newly dredged channels, the extra 40' in length and 50' width at the water line are insignificant.  A report of the Bermuda commission planning the dredging mentioned accommodating larger ships with up to 6000 passengers which indicates planning not only for the scheduled Quantum class, but for larger ships (Oasis) in the future.

 

So, if it is that easy as you insist for the Oasis to dock in Bermuda could you explain why she does not have one stop scheduled for her 2020 itineraries out of Bayonne.  Instead she is almost exclusively doing the boring 7 night Bahamas run.

[LINDAE3213]

We booked 4 interior cabins on the May 6 2020 4 nighter.  Why?  Because we live in NJ and 3 out of 5 of us may never get a chance to sail on this class of ship.  My husband and I are flying to Miami end March for Allure but it really is a hassle between flying in a day earlier...hotel  cost and the airport hassle to and from.

 

This same group of 5 of us did the.3 nighter Anthem a few years ago for same reason.

 

Is it ideal? No but better than nothing...and a cruise with my nephew...sister...stepson and husband is a priceless experience.  

 

The Oasis class cruise is more about the.ship not the port of call.

 

Linda

[The Fun Researcher]

21 minutes ago, LINDAE3213 said:

The Oasis class cruise is more about the.ship not the port of call.

 

Linda

 

Not picking on you, but...

 

For some you may be right but that’s making a lot of excuse for crappy itineraries.  Itinerary has equal  weight for us regardless of the class of ship.  I’m guessing we’re not alone.

 

Dan

[LINDAE3213]

It's ok.....I am from Bayonne ....we are used to being picked on  🙂

 

Our Allure cruise is for Roatan for snorkeling and the ship ...the other 3 ports don't interest us. I had priced out a land trip to Roatan but with stopovers and such it was expensive for hotels and time consuming. Not to mention food costs etc

 

  I have been to Bermuda 5 times...explorer/voyager..summit...anthem.

 

  I've done the 9 night canada/ne.

 

  I am flying to San Juan in 2020 for another southern caribbean. 

 

I think at some point at 20 plus cruises 1 hassle trip.a year is enough....the 2nd trip of the year is based on convenience.

 

And bosses tend to frown upon taking more than 5 or 6 says off in a row...so sailings from Bayonne limit the port options.  

 

Besides Bermuda...what other ports was everyone hoping Oasis would sail to from Bayonne?

 

 

 

[bobmacliberty]

41 minutes ago, The Fun Researcher said:

 

Not picking on you, but...

 

For some you may be right but that’s making a lot of excuse for crappy itineraries.  Itinerary has equal  weight for us regardless of the class of ship.  I’m guessing we’re not alone.

 

Dan

You're definitely not alone but...

 

Oasis will sail crappy itineraries at exorbitant prices, and will sail full.  NYC is a huge market and will have many, many newbies who want the experience and/or people who don't want to fly elsewhere.  Not saying that you are wrong, just that Royal doesn't really care and will make some nice coin from this move.

[Sunfun68]

If I could figure how to reply to a specific post rather than the bottom-of-the page reply to the entire thread, this would be a whole lot shorter; since I can't, it isn't.

Sunfun68 said "I am not sure what you mean by "structurally".  If you are referring to the number of passengers, that is  certainly a possibility.  You are however, absolutely incorrect about the additional 40 foot length not being able to be accommodated.  As long as the Oasis docks in the seaward berth it could EASILY dock at the Royal Dockyard.  You are absolutely incorrect about the channel.  As I mentioned previously, these channels are dredged out to several times the width of the Anthem and are about 42' deep.  The Oasis on a human scale appears much larger than the Anthem, but on a scale of moving through these newly dredged channels, the extra 40' in length and 50' width at the water line are insignificant.  A report of the Bermuda commission planning the dredging mentioned accommodating larger ships with up to 6000 passengers which indicates planning not only for the scheduled Quantum class, but for larger ships (Oasis) in the future."

Ourusualbeach replied "So, if it is that easy as you insist for the Oasis to dock in Bermuda could you explain why she does not have one stop scheduled for her 2020 itineraries out of Bayonne.  Instead she is almost exclusively doing the boring 7 night Bahamas run."

Finally, Sunfun68 says - Not being on the RCL cruise itinerary planning staff, I haven't the foggiest idea which of the dozens of possible reasons or combinations thereof find Oasis not docking in Bermuda.  My comment only had to do with what is POSSIBLE, not what is likely or planned.  The same with the summer Oasis itineraries being somewhat unexciting; I am sure there are very good reasons but, again, I don't have a clue what they are.

[The Fun Researcher]

34 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:

You're definitely not alone but...

 

Oasis will sail crappy itineraries at exorbitant prices, and will sail full.  NYC is a huge market and will have many, many newbies who want the experience and/or people who don't want to fly elsewhere.  Not saying that you are wrong, just that Royal doesn't really care and will make some nice coin from this move.

Can’t argue.   It’s too bad they can’t do both though. The good ship with an equally good itinerary .   It’s been one of the main drawbacks to the oasis class for us for years. Same ‘ol cookie cutter itineraries ,  and this one on the Oasis the summer of 2020 is even worse 

 

Dan

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Sunfun68 said:

 

Finally, Sunfun68 says - Not being on the RCL cruise itinerary planning staff, I haven't the foggiest idea which of the dozens of possible reasons or combinations thereof find Oasis not docking in Bermuda.  My comment only had to do with what is POSSIBLE, not what is likely or planned.  The same with the summer Oasis itineraries being somewhat unexciting; I am sure there are very good reasons but, again, I don't have a clue what they are.

 

Oasis is too large to dock at Heritage Wharf. There would have to be an extension, additional pilings, and mooring dolphins. And it is not only length. The structures have to be strong enough to hold the ship. As they found out when the extended the Wharf for Breakaway, the moorings were not strong enough and an additional 30 million dollars had to be spent above the planned 30 million. .

 

As to the dredging, it was done in 2015 to allow Quantum class. That was the specification of the work. The Bermuda government is not allowing any ships larger than Quantum Class in the channel. Possibly if the the docks were  extended enough there would not have to be more dredging but that is not a given. There would have to be a study and simulations. It is not just draft, wind conditions also affect if a ship can navigate the channel. Oasis is a larger ship, a different design and may not be able to navigate the channel as it is, because of it's design. 

 

Whether a ship can dock is not as simple as comparing only the drafts. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Charles4515

[Sunfun68]

The mass of the Oasis may cause the pilings to be a limiting factor since the Oasis is 1.5 times as massive as the Anthem.  The additional length of 40 feet is not a limiting factor (40 feet is about 25 paces for an average person.  Pace off 25 paces from the front or back of the Anthem, depending how its docked, the next time you're in Bermuda on the Anthem and you will immediately see how this additional length is insignificant for docking purposes.)  The additional 50' of width is also not a factor for docking as the side of the ship would just be 50' (about 30 paces) further out into the water.  As far as the channel is concerned, the 40' length difference and the 50' width difference in a 500 foot wide channel is not significant, especially since the propulsion system on the Oasis is even more advanced and precise as that on the Anthem (and for safety, the Oasis could just go a little slower than the Anthem).  Bermuda limits ships in the channel that have drafts of greater than 33'; this would also not be limiting as the Oasis has a draft of only 31' and the channel is actually more than 40' deep, giving the Oasis more than 10' clearance from the bottom of the channel.  It appears to me that, except possibly for the strength of the pilings, any limitations to the Oasis docking at Heritage Wharf are regulatory, not physical.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Sunfun68

[Biker19]

9 hours ago, Sunfun68 said:

 especially since the propulsion system on the Oasis is even more advanced and precise as that on the Anthem 

How is that?

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

How is that?

Power.

 

The first officer of Symphony told me that no other ship would have had enough power to safely get out of Malaga with the winds and seas we experienced that day. The winds were so strong that the ship was shaking while tied up. Malaga is a tricky port even on a good day, with a narrow channel and a sharp turn to the pier.

[steveru621]

23 hours ago, boscobeans said:

 

Have you ever cruised the Caribbean during hurricane season ?  We have and been in them twice. Sure the Captain did his best but still had stuff rolling all over our sweet and our butler on one was so seasick he couldn't work. 

 

Been on many from the Northeast where the seas were as smooth as the skin on a pool table.

Fortunately, no hurricanes, although we sail the prices during hurricane season.

 

Every cruise we have taken from November to March out of Cape Liberty has been rough.  But there are two or three in January and February that were brutal.  We choose them and expect a day of rough seas.  I can remember 2 times when it was lightly snowing at sail-a-way.

 

It's just part of cruising and we accept it.  We have sailed on 5 ships out of Cape Liberty, but I doubt Oasis will be number 6,  We will not accept a 7 day Nassau on any ship a complete waste IMHO.

[Sunfun68]

Sunfun68: "...especially since the propulsion system on the Oasis is even more advanced and precise as that on the Anthem". 

 

Biker19:  "How is that?"

 

Sunfun68:  Oasis has 3 azipods with a total of 60MW of power for maneuvering while the Anthem has only 2 with 41MW.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Sunfun68
clarification, punctuation