Shocking 60% of guests removed gratuities on NV Transatlantic

[Bloodgem]

15 hours ago, kernow said:

I do get sick though of hearing people constantly accuse us Brits of not tipping. I'm British, was on the Jewel TA which also had a completely changed itinerary (and unlike the Navigator passengers we got absolutely no compensation whatsoever) and it never even crossed my mind to remove tips, in fact as usual we tipped extra in cash at the end of the cruise to those staff who impressed us.

 

Julie

 

I agree with your comment and would like to add that I'm starting to feel pressurised, especially in the DL, to tip every night instead at the end of the cruise.

On our last cruise the waiters in the DL basically ignored us because we did not tip every night.  

[Ourusualbeach]

2 hours ago, sgmn said:

As far as I aware cruises booked in Australia have tips already included. No need to add anything else 

 

I thought that it was restricted to sailings from Australia.

[brillohead]

9 hours ago, ShazM said:

When I made the booking our TA said that tips were covered and it wasn't until I started reading that I realised they weren't. I have no problem either with tipping someone who gives me outstanding service. I'm just a bit bothered when people who tip as a way of life call others cheap when they don't tip as a way of life. I still have no clue how much to tip and when.

You need to have a conversation with your travel agent to clear this up before you sail. 

Some agents have deals/specials where they DO include the "gratuities/Daily Service Charge" as part of your package.  Basically, they take some of the commission they earn from the cruise line and essentially refund that to you by putting On Board Credit on your account to cover the cost of the "gratuities".   In this situation, the cruise line itself has no clue that your "gratuities" are prepaid -- they just charge your account for the applicable amount per person each day, and a couple days into your cruise a single OBC amount gets added to your account equal to the week's total gratuities amount.  Because this is a "private deal" between you and your travel agent, it won't show on the official invoice from Royal Caribbean, but your TA should be giving you something in writing (for your own records) to show that they will be covering this expense during your cruise.  

Some agents (or the cruise line itself, in the case of some Aussie cruises) may include the "gratuities/DSC" in your bill, so it's part of the total price you're paying before you cruise.  If this is the case, it should show on your official invoice from Royal Caribbean that the "gratuities" have been included in the total fare and paid in full at the time of final payment.  

So you need to clarify with your TA now, before you cruise, exactly what type of "included" you're dealing with.  Some people have the first type (where the TA pays for OBC) and they freak out when they see the daily fee added onto their on-board account, because they weren't expecting to see any charges.  It takes a couple days for the OBC amount to post to the account to cancel out the week's worth of charges, so until that happens, it looks like the customer is paying for the "gratuities" every day when they weren't expecting an additional charge. 
 

9 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

 

As an Australian, your gratuities are prepaid within your cruise fare. You don't need to pay anything else.

If you would like to, $1 (usd) with a drink and 20-25% of cost at restaurants is the norm.

Drinks and restaurant and spa charges on board will include an automatic 18% tip when you are presented with the receipt to sign.  There will be a line to add additional tip IF YOU WANT TO based on the service you received, but the 18% is all that is expected and it has already been included in the total on the slip you sign.  

HOWEVER, if you are dining in a table-service restaurant (meaning a server takes your order and brings your food to you ) in the States before or after your cruise, the tip is NOT normally included in the vast majority of restaurants in the USA (I'd say that 99% of restaurants don't auto-include the tip unless you have 6 or more in your party).  You can either leave a 15-20% tip in cash, or you can write it the amount on the credit card receipt on the line provided.    Just read your original bill at the restaurant before you give them your credit card -- it will itemize all food and drinks, sales tax, and a tip if one was automatically included.  

Hope this helps -- it really isn't confusing when you know what to expect.  

Edited November 28, 2018 by brillohead

[Joseph2017China]

First, I would never ask a person, how much money they make, or how is the tips.  It's simply rude, as I was taught many years ago.  Next, I would never believe a crew member who volunteers this info to me.  I would find that to be completely unprofessional.  (and none of my business).

 

27 years ago, my TA told me what the expected tips were per day.  I took that amount, put it in envelopes (so we wouldn't spend it) and gave it out, at the end of the cruise, as tradition dictated.  Never once did I think this was not part of the price to go on the trip.  It was disclosed up front, the expectation, just like eating at a restaurant, the expectation is to tip 15%. 

 

I don't worry about how hard they work ( I work hard also).  I don't care how much they make (non of my business).  I don't care what others tip (non of my business).  I certainly do not want to hear about "sad" stories of their hardships away from home, and their 6 kids, when in fact, that person, is most likely single, and enjoying their job and making a huge amount of money based on where they live. 

 

I give my tip, and it is prepaid.  So much better than my envelop system.  Maybe I give extra, maybe I don't, that is between me and the person I give it to.  The service charge, or tip, is a cruising tradition, and has nothing to do where you live.  When I go to anther country, I tip according to that locations tradition.  Just like on the ship, I tip according to the traditions of cruises.

[Biker19]

4 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 

I thought that it was restricted to sailings from Australia.

Anything booked under Aussie rules has both grats and port fees/taxes included.

 

The few times I've checked, the Aussie prices seem to be very close to US prices - kinda like Canadian prices (the main fluctuation is the exchange rate used).

Edited November 28, 2018 by Biker19

[asalligo]

Who gets the 18% they added to my soda package since I fill it from a machine with a chipped cup? Is it just distributed among the tip receiving crew or is RCCL keeping that for machine costs? 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by asalligo

[Biker19]

The same place where the 18% that is added to the drinks dispensed in the Bionic Bar.

[twangster]

Oh wow, another tipping thread.

 

I prepay the 'auto gratuity' usually, just easier for my circumstances.  My understanding is that pre-paid (before sailing) gratuity can not be removed onboard.  I've yet to encounter a situation that rose to a level to motivate me to think about having them removed.  If it does I'l simply write that off as 1 in 100 and live with it.  

 

A note about Australian cruises.  If it's booked on the AU website, gratuity is bundled in.  If a US customer books an Australian sailing on the US website then gratuity is not bundled in and it's paid BAU, either prepaid upon request or daily onboard. Booked Ovation to NZ in January and researched this thoroughly with my TA.  Sadly had to cancel that sailing but the rules were very clear, only cruises booked on the AU website include the daily gratuity.  Where the ship departs from doesn't dictate the rules.  

[WorkerBee74]

The fact that the United States has a culture where they are able pay waitstaff UNDER minimum wage and expect their tips to make up for it is SHAMEFUL.  It's really the only 1st world country in the world that does this with impunity.  

 

In Canada, we pay our waitstaff at least minimum wage AND we tip.  In Europe they also pay their waitstaff higher wages and tips are not expected.

 

The fact that knowing Americans don't pay their waitstaff a living wage is awful IMO - and I *always* tip extra when I visit the US but I'm sure not happy about having to do it.  

 

It's understandable that Europeans who aren't used to this may balk at the practice, but the cruise lines who make the tipping 'optional' are the ones at fault here.  If it's included in the fare, great.  But to be able to 'choose' to prepay and also have the ability to take it off?  It's no different than American restaurant owners who cut-rate their employees wages and expect the customer to make up for it in tips.

 

That being said, I always pre-pay my tips, and if anything happened on the cruise to upset me, I sure wouldn't take them off as there are hundreds of people serving me who didn't do anything wrong.  I'd much rather have it in the fare though if I KNEW that the workers are being paid the difference.  Any tips over and above should be at your discretion IMO.

[sgmn]

4 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 

I thought that it was restricted to sailings from Australia.

That's what I meant 

[Ergates The Ant]

The ship’s crew, like any employees, should be paid an appropriate wage, agreed in advance, and not dependant on the whims or generosity of their employers customers. 

Why would anyone object to having the crews wages included in the cost of the cruise? This is what happens in service industries throughout the civilised world. The US is the only nation I am aware of that has continued with an outdated and demeaning system that requires some of the lowest paid employees to ‘grovel’ for payment they should have been entitled to as part of their contract of employment. The cruise industry has seen fit to adopt this practice and needs to accept responsibility for the fact that this is not the norm for the rest of the world.

i have never seen American cruise passengers tipping the guest services staff, or chasing the captain down a corridor with an envelope of cash. This is because  they are properly remunerated, and in the UK, that includes everyone with a job! 

I am very insulted by those posters who label non- tippers as cheapskates, and reminding us all of how hard they work,  but are not actively supporting having the crew’s pay fully included in the cruise fare. 

Why don’t they want the gratuities included? Oh yes, because it might cost them more! So who are the cheapskates?

[Ergates The Ant]

One more point, in the UK, it is illegal not to include any compulsory charges in the cost of a purchase or service.

This is one reason why the suggested gratuities cannot be described as mandatory, and have to be removable or else they would have to be included in the fare.

This is part of laws intended to protect the consumer from incurring costs over and above what was advertised or described, by being misled.

So it should come as no surprise that anyone other than an American would not automatically understand a tip or gratuity as being anything other than a little extra thank you, given freely and without obligation, for service above and beyond what was expected.

[Joseph2017China]

37 minutes ago, WorkerBee74 said:

The fact that the United States has a culture where they are able pay waitstaff UNDER minimum wage and expect their tips to make up for it is SHAMEFUL.  It's really the only 1st world country in the world that does this with impunity.  

 

In Canada, we pay our waitstaff at least minimum wage AND we tip.  In Europe they also pay their waitstaff higher wages and tips are not expected.

 

The fact that knowing Americans don't pay their waitstaff a living wage is awful IMO - and I *always* tip extra when I visit the US but I'm sure not happy about having to do it.  

 

It's understandable that Europeans who aren't used to this may balk at the practice, but the cruise lines who make the tipping 'optional' are the ones at fault here.  If it's included in the fare, great.  But to be able to 'choose' to prepay and also have the ability to take it off?  It's no different than American restaurant owners who cut-rate their employees wages and expect the customer to make up for it in tips.

 

That being said, I always pre-pay my tips, and if anything happened on the cruise to upset me, I sure wouldn't take them off as there are hundreds of people serving me who didn't do anything wrong.  I'd much rather have it in the fare though if I KNEW that the workers are being paid the difference.  Any tips over and above should be at your discretion IMO.

At one time in my life, the minimum wage was $3.35 hour.  Most of my friends made that amount of money.  I made from $15.00 or more per hour with tips.  When you say minimum wage and say that it is allowed to pay under the minimum wage, you are wrong.  There is a minimum wage for waitstaff and you can not pay below it.  American restaurant owners do not cut-rate employees.  The cost of payroll is factored into the cost of the food.  If you raise the pay, than you raise the food cost.  Either way, you pay for it. 

 

Cruises are the same.  It's part of the cruise.  It has always been part of the cruise since the 1800's.

[twangster]

50 minutes ago, WorkerBee74 said:

The fact that the United States has a culture where they are able pay waitstaff UNDER minimum wage and expect their tips to make up for it is SHAMEFUL.  It's really the only 1st world country in the world that does this with impunity.  

 

In Canada, we pay our waitstaff at least minimum wage AND we tip.  In Europe they also pay their waitstaff higher wages and tips are not expected.

 

The fact that knowing Americans don't pay their waitstaff a living wage is awful IMO - and I *always* tip extra when I visit the US but I'm sure not happy about having to do it.  

 

 

Long time joke in the US among wait staff:

 

What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe?  A canoe tips.

 

As someone who grew up in Canada but now lives in the US I have perspective of both countries.  Neither is right, neither is wrong.  It's just different.  You have to take the whole system into account and not just focus on minimum wage as if all else is equal.  

 

First of all it varies by state.  It's not federal law.  I live in a state that voted to raise minimum wage for wait staff.  A lot of servers I know didn't want it.  They make more now compared to a system where they make a higher minimum wage but less in tips.  It rewards lazy employees who don't want to work hard.  

 

In the US wait staff who bust their a$$ can make serious bank.  It's helping put a daughter through college so I have personal insight and interest in this.      

[Biker19]

41 minutes ago, Ergates The Ant said:

Why would anyone object to having the crews wages included in the cost of the cruise?

Maybe because like in the US, the hard working wait staff, they could make more under current system.

[WorkerBee74]

1 hour ago, Joseph2017China said:

At one time in my life, the minimum wage was $3.35 hour.  Most of my friends made that amount of money.  I made from $15.00 or more per hour with tips.  When you say minimum wage and say that it is allowed to pay under the minimum wage, you are wrong.  There is a minimum wage for waitstaff and you can not pay below it.  American restaurant owners do not cut-rate employees.  The cost of payroll is factored into the cost of the food.  If you raise the pay, than you raise the food cost.  Either way, you pay for it. 

 

Cruises are the same.  It's part of the cruise.  It has always been part of the cruise since the 1800's.

 

I am not wrong.  You are talking about a "tipped wage" which is different than a minimum wage.  

 

A tipped wage is $2.13/hour.  

 

Would it not be better for the employees to be paid the minimum wage of $7.25 and then get tips above that?  That's how it works in Canada, but I guess we have to pay those pesky taxes when we get paid like that.  I thought tips are SUPPOSED to be for exemplary service.

Edited November 28, 2018 by WorkerBee74

[Atlantix2000]

3 hours ago, asalligo said:

Who gets the 18% they added to my soda package since I fill it from a machine with a chipped cup? Is it just distributed among the tip receiving crew or is RCCL keeping that for machine costs? 

 

Somebody has to fill that machine with the syrup containers or your cup would just get carbonated water!

Edited November 28, 2018 by Atlantix2000

[FlorenceItaly]

I wish the cruiselines would not allow this!

[grapau27]

11 hours ago, Bloodgem said:

I agree with your comment and would like to add that I'm starting to feel pressurised, especially in the DL, to tip every night instead at the end of the cruise.

On our last cruise the waiters in the DL basically ignored us because we did not tip every night.  

I tip $1 a drink in the DL so my server is instantly rewarded but I rarely see anyone else doing this.

[little britain]

2 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I tip $1 a drink in the DL so my server is instantly rewarded but I rarely see anyone else doing this.

When I was in the DL on That Cruise with That Incident In Vigo.. I saw no one tipping in the DL. I also tipped $1 per drink as I always do.  

I'm not sure how to say this without sounding like a snob, but having seen my fellow cruisers on That Cruise it doesn't surprise me a bit that they didn't pay tips. Emotions and anger (and certain people fuelling and inciting action via other sites) was so high that they would take it out on anyone....they would not even think that removing the tips would effect the staff.

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, little britain said:

When I was in the DL on That Cruise with That Incident In Vigo.. I saw no one tipping in the DL. I also tipped $1 per drink as I always do.  

I'm not sure how to say this without sounding like a snob, but having seen my fellow cruisers on That Cruise it doesn't surprise me a bit that they didn't pay tips. Emotions and anger (and certain people fuelling and inciting action via other sites) was so high that they would take it out on anyone....they would not even think that removing the tips would effect the staff.

I understand where you are coming from and agree with you.

When we were on Independence last month we never went to the DL but had our free D+ drinks in Boleros and Champagne bar.

Most people went to the bar themselves as there was no waiters coming to the tables they just stood behind the bar chatting.

After a while one waiter came to our table and took our order and I gave him $2 and after that they came back when our drinks were low and I gave $2 again.

 

[twangster]

I bring a stack of singles for happy hour drinks and always give one where ever I get a drink, bar or DL.  I do the same in airport clubs with free drinks.  It's the least I can do if I'm getting a free drink.  

 

I wouldn't say I never see anyone else do it, but I do see lot's of folks not doing it.  

[kernow]

44 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I tip $1 a drink in the DL so my server is instantly rewarded but I rarely see anyone else doing this.

The majority of people in the DL/CL appeared to be doing this on the Jewel TA. We always used to tip at the end of the cruise but with the lounges so busy now we find it's easier to tip nightly.

 

Julie

[Seville2Cabo]

We also never go to the DL.  We always tip $1 per drink.  So if wife and I, $2.  We never have to go to the bar and get great service.  Usually get our drinks without having to order.  I bring about $200 per 7 days in ones and fives for tips (in addition to leaving daily tips in place)

 

I just don't understand all these people that are offended on how RC (and other lines) pay their employees.  I always try to learn and abide by customs of the places I visit, weather I understand them or not.  I was in international sales for global company for most of my 30 working years and traveled too much.  IMO, the best service in restaurants is in the US.  Nothing but bad experiences in England and Australia.   Our daughter is a bartender and makes about 50% of minimum wage.  She would find another job if they took away tips and gave her triple minimum wage. 

 

RC has been doing this for a lot of years and it is working for their business model.  I would think they get harder working people and better customer service hiring people that are willing to put some of the compensation at risk betting on their own ability to keep us cruisers happy.  I would sure rather have that employee being our server than someone that had nothing  to lose or gain by good or bad service. 

 

 

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

We also never go to the DL.  We always tip $1 per drink.  So if wife and I, $2.  We never have to go to the bar and get great service.  Usually get our drinks without having to order.  I bring about $200 per 7 days in ones and fives for tips (in addition to leaving daily tips in place)

 

I just don't understand all these people that are offended on how RC (and other lines) pay their employees.  I always try to learn and abide by customs of the places I visit, weather I understand them or not.  I was in international sales for global company for most of my 30 working years and traveled too much.  IMO, the best service in restaurants is in the US.  Nothing but bad experiences in England and Australia.   Our daughter is a bartender and makes about 50% of minimum wage.  She would find another job if they took away tips and gave her triple minimum wage. 

 

RC has been doing this for a lot of years and it is working for their business model.  I would think they get harder working people and better customer service hiring people that are willing to put some of the compensation at risk betting on their own ability to keep us cruisers happy.  I would sure rather have that employee being our server than someone that had nothing  to lose or gain by good or bad service. 

 

 

I suppose they could be sacked for bad service.

I agree with you that the cash incentive should be there to encourage excellent customer service by wait staff etc.