Veendam lanai bait and switch? - help, please

[iancal]

It is called  'cheating the customer'.

[RMLincoln]

I have sympathy for the OP who got stuck with a cabin that is obviously not what is advertised.  It's not because this was a guarantee booking, anyone who booked this cabin specifically would have the same problem too.  The cabin simply cannot function as advertised and I think the OP should be compensated to some degree or moved a better cabin.  

 

I recall reading on this forum some time ago about someone very disappointed by their lanai cabin in that their access to the promenade deck form their room was blocked and cordoned off due to repairs and maintenance on a lifeboat above them, so they couldn't use their deck chairs either.  Their situation went on for their whole cruise and they did manage to get some compensation.   

 

On our recent cruise on Koningsdam we had a water leak the last 3 days or so.  It was addressed by a very noisy fan being left in our room for many hours a day which was quite annoying.  On the last day of the cruise we received a letter with written apology and informed us that we were given an OBC for our inconvenience.  I was quite surprised at this as we had not asked for it, but this is good business practice when the cruise line has someone in room that is deficient and can't be made normal, or especially if the room cannot deliver what it was advertised as.   

 

My suggestion to the OP is log your complaints:  Keep a list of when and to whom you have lodged your complaints along with their responses.  If your issue is not resolved on board, you can file this with Seattle after you disembark.  Also, file it with the Mariners club.  If you have access to the Mariner club email or phone number while on your cruise that might be an avenue to pursue now.  

 

In the meantime OP, I do hope you can put this issue aside at least a little bit so you can enjoy what you DO have - it's not the best of circumstances, but there is still a lot to enjoy.  I'm sorry this happened to you; Veendam is for sale and I guess HAL is not interested in fixing it.  We were on her for 7 weeks last year to Europe and back, and I would not choose to go on her again, but as I said about our leak on Koningsdam, even new ships can have issues.   m--

Edited December 22, 2018 by RMLincoln

[tregatti]

Thank you so much for your responses! Late Fri. night we got word that the request to substitute OBC for the future cruise credit had been approved, and this morning I verified it has posted to our account.  We calculated our anticipated expenditures for the rest of the cruise and the OBC will pretty much cover all of them. Essentially we'll break even, as if we had booked an oceanview and prepaid a bunch of OBC. (BTW I re-read the letter that offered us the OBC; it implied the situation with the door had recently happened, which it definitely had not, so I don't know if that was a lack of communication from the ship to corporate, or something  else was going on.) After we get home I will definitely follow up with HAL and let you know what they say; based on your comments and my own thoughts it doesn't seem this situation was handled as well as it could/should have been.  For now I just want to relax and enjoy the rest of the week without having to spend any more time dealing with the front desk. 🙂 Many thanks again for your help.

[Aquahound]

12 hours ago, MikeD4134 said:

Again what did they lose?  The difference between an ocean view and lanai cabin is the reserved deck chairs, and accessing the deck directly from your cabin. So the only thing they lost was the direct access to the deck, which can be accessed a short walk down the hall.  I stayed in a lanai cabin twice, then I figured it out, I was paying $500 extra for the reserved deck chair, we moved on to Veranda cabins.  Feel invited to explain to me other than direct access to the deck, what did they lose.

 

13 hours ago, MikeD4134 said:

Must be just me, but the analysis of this situation does not make sense to me.  Tregatti's cabin's interior is fully functional, so there is no loss there.  Their deck chairs are still reserved, so there is no loss there.  They have the same view from their cabin whether or not the door opens, so no loss there.  They cannot exit their cabin directly to the deck, so they have to walk down the hall to the nearest exit to the deck and walk a short distance to their chairs, this is an added inconvenience, but really adding a few steps to get to their chairs, requires HAL to reimburse hundreds of $$$.

 

If you would be that calm about this scenario, good for you.   I would be livid if I booked a lanai cabin and my door didn't open.  I would be especially livid at the fact they knew the door was broken and did not fix it.  There's no way I would accept credit on a future cruise.  

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Love all the legal experts. This is not bait and switch. You got exactly the level room you booked. I don't expect the people doing the room assignments in Seattle to know the idiosyncrasies  of each individual room, particularly as these oddities can change minute by minute. The room was listed as available, that is all they know.

 

That being said, the room was deficient. For that you deserve compensation. Does HAL deserve compensation for false accusations of bait and switch?

 

Contracts have an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. This was not a fair contract.  To deny reimbursement for this material breach would be bad faith. 

[iancal]

It is so easy for the HAL boosters to pass this off with an air of nonchalonce or excuse.

 

I suspect that their attitude might be different if they reserved this category of cabin only to feel cheated and disappointed in being assigned to something far less.   Like buying a Lexus and having the dealer deliver a Llada in it's place.

[OlsSalt]

tregatti - there is a cabin info website called HalFacts - I hope you make a report with your photos about that specific cabin number, so others can be forewarned who do the necessary homework. 

 

We had a few clinker cabins using the HAL guaranty until we got the hang of where we like to be on a ship and then pretty much scour the internet to see if there are any negative reports when now asking for a specific  cabin number. We no longer risk guaranty, but we do keep a listen out for possible upsells after the final payment date. Some we take, some we turn down -- but always with a deck plan in hand to make sure we know what is above and below the offered cabin change. 

 

We had as many good upgrades prior to one really bad cabin on the Amsterdam, that we let it roll when I think we too got far less than we had paid for too. (scupper stench that was so extreme that prevented use of the verandah on a 50 day South Pacific cruise!)  

 

We took the small reimbursement (and the endless plates of compensatory strawberries and chocolates), but it always bothered me that we too basically ended up with an ocean view cabin too for the price of a verandah. . HAL tried to keep flushing out the drain lines so there was periodic relief for a day or so, and then it would stink again - even the HAL staff grimaced strongly when they had to go out there.)

 

So this is part of the occasional ship happens scenario - but some form of appropriate compensation for these material deficiencies does need to make up for this mutual acknowledgement of a physical space problem.  

 

The unfortunate aspect of this is there are some who raise a stink well out of proportion of any possible offense, in what may look like an intentional shake-down at HAL's expense. So it is a fine line. I think yours got crossed - yours is an objective and verifiable complaint.  You did not get what you signed up for and what HAL clearly marketed as unique for this cabin class.

Edited December 22, 2018 by OlsSalt

[knittinggirl]

We had a balcony door not open on our Junior Suite on Liberty of the Seas.  I mentioned it to the concierge (we're Diamond Plus), stating our Junior Suite was essentially an Oceanview.  They fixed it w/in a day.  But Royal Caribbean seems to do better fixing stuff than Holland America.

 

I'd ask for a refund.  If not, check the rates.  W/ any luck, you should be able to get a pretty hefty credit toward the next cruise.  There's quite an upcharge between a Lanai and OV.  If you're going to be in a embarkation city anyway, see if you can apply the credit toward a three or four day cruise.

Edited December 22, 2018 by knittinggirl

[SetAnOpenCourse]

14 hours ago, MikeD4134 said:

Again what did they lose?  The difference between an ocean view and lanai cabin is the reserved deck chairs, and accessing the deck directly from your cabin. So the only thing they lost was the direct access to the deck, which can be accessed a short walk down the hall.  I stayed in a lanai cabin twice, then I figured it out, I was paying $500 extra for the reserved deck chair, we moved on to Veranda cabins.  Feel invited to explain to me other than direct access to the deck, what did they lose.

I guess one can say that they lost the $500 that you mention, which they presumably would not have paid if the defect was known when booking.

I’m glad the OBC was given.  I was not so lucky, with a clunker veranda door on my last HAL cruise.

 

HAL should streamline their process of compensation, and be ready to offer it when something important malfunctions.  Also, I’m not sure the staff can be generally described as forthright when it is unlikely that a problem will be fixed during your cruise, leading to wasted time calling/visiting the front office.

[TAD2005]

I'm guessing that the problem with that Lanai cabin sliding door was the magnetic latch.   Those doors are held closed by a powerful magnetic lock.  You have to press the white button on the inside, or swipe your prox card on the outside to release the lock.   If the electronics that controls the release of the magnetic lock are defective, there's no way the ship's mechanics could service it.  They obviously don't have a spare module.   If the magnetic lock is defective, then your sliding door is permanently unlocked.  Ships motion could cause the unlocked door to slide open all by itself.   That is a very bad security issue, so to put a bandaid on the problem, they screwed a wood block into the track to prevent the unlocked door from sliding open all by itself. 

This guest definitely deserves a decent form of OBC in compensation.   HAL couldn't sell you a cabin where the cabin door lock was defective, but I'm sure they stock spare door lock modules.  They don't seem to have spare magnetic lock control modules on this ship.

[TiogaCruiser]

10 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

If you would be that calm about this scenario, good for you.   I would be livid if I booked a lanai cabin and my door didn't open.  I would be especially livid at the fact they knew the door was broken and did not fix it.  There's no way I would accept credit on a future cruise.  

I would be pretty upset too, if I pay for a lanai. Why wouldn’t HAL apply the discount to the current cruise..... I’m glad they did.

 

one question in clarification for the OP:  You said originally you paid for a Lanai guaranty, then later said it was an OV. Was it an upsell from an OV by chance?

[terrydtx]

Prior to the Lanai cabin conversions these lower Promenade deck cabins were classified as OV but were the highest priced OV category because of the convenient walk down the hall to an outside door to access the deck. After the Lanai conversion these OV cabins became a premium cabin with direct access to the deck from a glass door in the cabin. We had a Lanai cabin on the Volendam and paid a premium at the time for that cabin, like the OP I would have been very upset if our outside door had been permanently locked shut.

 

If this door had a defective magnetic lock, like one poster suggested, it should have been fixed when the ship reached its home port prior to the next cruise. From the picture of the wood block holding the door closed, it looks llike it has been there for some time as it and the screws in the wood are very weathered. It looks like HAL dropped the ball on this needed fix and should be held responsible for the OP's inconvenience. 

[Cruzaholic41]

HAL is already on its death bed with me. If this occurred to me, it would have been the final straw. OP, I applaud your somewhat calm demeanor. I would have been furious. 

[avian777]

On 12/22/2018 at 11:37 AM, CruiserBruce said:

Love all the legal experts. This is not bait and switch. You got exactly the level room you booked ...

 

That being said, the room was deficient. For that you deserve compensation. Does HAL deserve compensation for false accusations of bait and switch?

 

👍👍👍  Spot on, CB!!!  How sad it is to see people who obviously have no legal training accuse HAL of illegal  bait-and-switch tactics. 

[GUT2407]

On 12/23/2018 at 5:17 AM, OlsSalt said:

 

Contracts have an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. This was not a fair contract.  To deny reimbursement for this material breach would be bad faith. 

But still not bait and switch.

[iancal]

It all comes down to treating the customer fairly.  A cheap bottle of wine, some strawberries, or a small future cruise credit or an OBC  is not what I would consider as fair. IMHO the customer deserves a refund in full or in part.   But I am one of these strange people who believes in actually getting what they pay for.

 

It will be interesting to see what HAL offers or does.

 

I would only call it bait and switch if this was a longstanding well known issue and HAL knowingly kept the cabin in it's lanai inventory for sale time and time again.

Edited December 23, 2018 by iancal

[avian777]

7 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

But still not bait and switch.

 

👍👍👍  Right on!!!

[igraf]

On 12/22/2018 at 6:28 AM, Homosassa said:

There was no bait and switch involved in your booking.

 

The conventional wisdom when booking a guaranteed is to hope for the best, but be aware that one can receive the worst cabin in the category.

 

It appears that you did receive the worst cabin in the category.

 

I can see maybe receiving the cost difference at the time of your booking between a lanai cabin and and an oceanview cabin on the same deck, but other than that, you actually received what you paid for.

 

Next time, pay the fare for booking the cabin you want.

 

 

 

 

This was a non-functioning lanai cabin as defined by HAL.  It is wrong to say that it is "in the category".

 

The cost difference is barely sufficient as compensation as the entire vacation has been compromised by the aggravation.  If they decided not to serve you any food for dinner, would the cost of the food be enough compensation or would this ruin the whole experience?

 

igraf

 

 

[iancal]

How would one feel if they were assigned to a veranda cabin only to find that the doors were sealed and there was no access to the balcony???

 

Perhaps the real difference  of opinion is because it happened to someone else.     

 

Or is it just their imagination that the door is sealed shut or perhaps it is due to their negligence that the door is sealed shut.

 

Bottom line...the OP did not get what they paid for.  Not even close.  All the excuses and discussion over semantics cannot take away from that fact.

Edited December 24, 2018 by iancal

[Aquahound]

The definition of B&S is: "the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."  

 

Even though a guarantee is generally seen as a bargain, I doubt HAL had the intention back at the time of the OP's booking of putting them in a broken room.  Therefore, I don't think this is a B&S.

 

That said, the ship did not stop them from being assigned this inferior room so HAL is still highly at fault here.  

[cruiserchuck]

No one is saying HAL did anything illegal.  Maybe a better slang analogy would be highway robbery, since HAL was trying to overcharge for what it was actually offering.  And no, I am not insinuating that HAL was committing an actual robbery.  

[richstowe]

The definition of B&S is: "the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."  

 

Even though a guarantee is generally seen as a bargain, I doubt HAL had the intention back at the time of the OP's booking of putting them in a broken room.  Therefore, I don't think this is a B&S.

On 12/23/2018 at 2:10 PM, avian777 said:

 

👍👍👍  Spot on, CB!!!  How sad it is to see people who obviously have no legal training accuse HAL of illegal  bait-and-switch tactics. 

The problem with the above is that there was clearly a looong time problem with this sliding door.  If the door has  recently failed, that would be a different situation.  That block holding the door shut was NOT installed anytime in the last few months. Possibly years.

[Fouremco]

On 12/21/2018 at 6:06 PM, tregatti said:

Thank you for the advice! We booked directly with HAL, and I have photos of the door block (I'll try to attach it here). 

To add a different perspective, while the block has clearly been used for some time, quite possibly it has been used multiple times in multiple locations. It's as likely that it was installed in its current location during the ship's last cruise as it is that it was placed there months ago.

 

How long the door has been blocked, however, is a bit of a red herring. The crux of the matter is that the OP didn't get what he or she paid for and should be compensated. 

[iancal]

My guess is that this cabin is currently assigned to someone on the next cruise, and perhaps the one after that.   Did they buy and pay for a lanai cabin or has HAL proactively changed this cabin to be an outside cabin?  Probably not.   Chances are they too will not get what they paid for either and will be disappointed.

 

What do you think HAL will do?   Fix the problem, ie repair the door to proper working condition?   Be proactive and let those people who are assigned to this cabin in the next few cruises know about the issue as well as try to move them, allow them to cancel, etc?   Or do you think HAL will do absolutely nothing, wait until they board the ship, are disappointed, and  possibly complain.?

 

I would put my money on the last option.

Edited December 24, 2018 by iancal

[Aquahound]

45 minutes ago, iancal said:

I would put my money on the last option.

 

I tend to agree with you, considering that's what happened to the OP.