Our EDGE Eden Disaster

[cruisestitch]

We know there’s an elevator.  Take a look at Kearney’s post (quoted in post “41).  It didn’t work for the scooter.

 

and there are areas of Eden which can only be reached by steps. 

 

Those  are the issues,

[cruisestitch]

Perhaps ADA law doesn’t cover ships, but the design principles should, in my opinion

[Host Jazzbeau]

14 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Perhaps ADA law doesn’t cover ships, but the design principles should, in my opinion

 

But that puts the whole discussion into a different light: 'should' rather than 'must.'  For contrast, Viking Ocean bans scooters altogether:

https://www.vikingcruises.com/oceans/frequently-asked-questions.html

[hcat]

They have the handicapped lifts at the pool, on other x ships,.Solarium and outdoor.  Have seen them operating..Gives access to pools 

 

.Surely elevs should be large enough...even if it's a back one for supplies,..

Tsk tsk...

Edited December 24, 2018 by hcat

[dides]

2 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

 

I think the issue is not that there is not an elevator, it is getting out of it.  In hotels, some elevators have doors front and rear.  But from one comment, I believe this one has front and side, so you can't just drive in and back out, or vice versa.  You have to be able to turn the scooter/chair 90 degrees to exit.  And it might not be possible for larger scooters.  EM

 

Here's a picture of the Eden elevator

 

[hcat]

56 minutes ago, vtcruising said:

Sorry that Eden didn't work for you guys, kearney (and sorry that I missed this earlier when responded). I wondered about the seats, but it was hard for me to tell which ones might work for you. I'm sure that they will get lots of feedback about the chairs and elevator and hopefully will make it a better experience for all. How was the rest of your cruise? Are you going to do a review? I hope you were able to enjoy your much-anticipated cruise! 🙂

Kearny

Welcome Back..

As an original EDGIE, hope you will post a full review...

Likes, dislikes etc.  Hope  the cabin worked out abd that overall you enjoyed your much anticipated cruise!

[Oville]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Vt

Thanks for posting..

 

Oh my..those are the steps I always avoid on ships....slippery,  often not same sized, hate the lighting . With graduated lenses they are troublesome..I always opt for the carpeted steps on X...

Guess I'll be going through the forest twice a day!

 

The steps do make nice backgrounds for photos

The walk through the Forrest is quite short, maybe 15 seconds.

[hcat]

24 minutes ago, Oville said:

The walk through the Forrest is quite short, maybe 15 seconds.

Thanks..Seems like the walk throughs  to Ensemble Lounge  and Specialty restaurants on S Class ships...probably has eerie sounds..My favs of the others  are chirping birds!

[Bo1953]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Sorry to respectfully  disagree with you.

 

They should have elevators to accomodate the size of the  scooters they permit on board. Access for everyone to venues is  the main concern..not how much space will be lost!

No worries about disagreeing, I can accept that...

 

My disagreement is in the way that public parking lots permit most all sizes of vehicles to enter, but the markers are only so wide, which means that there will be a sub-set of vehicles who will not be able to park there due to the narrow size of the stripes.

 

I think there are only a few patrons who would refuse to shop there due to the size of the parking space, while others will figure out a better way.

 

bon voyage

[Alakegirl]

How can a scooter user “ figure out a better way,” when the elevator is unsuitable for scooters?🤔

[kearney]

3 hours ago, FM said:

Were you staying in an IV stateroom and if so was there enough room between the edge of the bed and the wall to scoot through?  How was navigating the rest of the Edge on the scooter - is  there room outside the dining rooms to park you scooter when you go in for dinner?  Thanks for any insights you may have re: your DH experiences with a scooter aboard the Edge …

We stayed in an E3 cabin (7163). It was near the forward elevator. If I had it all to do over I would probably select one near the rear elevator to minimize the "can't get there from here" issue. We had the bed by the window. I am probably going to put a thread together dealing with scooters. I tried to take dimensions of the cabin together. But to answer your questions. I measured about 18" between wall and bed in a cabin with bed by bathroom. I would try to get a cabin where the bed is by the window... The public areas are great for scooters... wide and open. The Ocean View is also good. My husband would park his scooter along a wall on the port side of OC. At the restaurants we parked outside the dining rooms.... they tried to get us a table fairly close to the entrance. So he never walked very far. DH is in the process of writing one of his nuclear letters about the scooter. Here is the problem... he noticed early on that the charger did not appear to be working. By day 4 we noticed that the charge was way down after a trip just around the pier in St Maartan. We went to Guest Services and they had an electrician drop by the cabin... after he looked at it and consulted with another electrician...both very helpful guys by the way... they agreed with DH that the charger was not working. I went back to Guest services to see if they had a back up charger. After all the Special needs group is the company I saw on royal caribbean as a vendor they suggested. I was surprised to learn that they do not have any extra chargers on board. We looked around and we did not see any other passengers with scooter that used  24volt battery. One night at dinner we found another passenger who had the same issue... but he was able to find a passenger with a similar model and was able to recharge. Celebrity did lend us a wheelchair, so at least we were able to get around the ship. I will warn those with wheel chairs that there are places that transition from tile to carpet. It is difficult to push a chair across carpet and I nearly tossed DH on his face at several changes between carpet and tile... the key is to either go at an angle or go backwards with the large tire making the transition. Carpet cuts down on noise... but does make manual chairs harder to handle. Back to the cabin... in a cabin with bed by window the distance between the sofa/lounger is abut 38"... so you have roughly 16" to walk between drawers and scooter. you can park by closet...but then you can not open the closet.... you can take a k turn...but you need to push in the vanity table and more the chair... we just walked it out... it was faster. Hope this hepls

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

ADA doesn't cover ocean ships.

 

With the caveat that I haven't exhaustively researched the question, I don't believe you are correct.  See the following, including the Supreme Court's 2005 ruling in Spector v. NCL, in  which the Court stated, among other things, 

 

"Title III of the ADA prohibits discrimination against the disabled in the full and equal enjoyment of public accommodations, 42 U. S. C. § 12182(a), and public transportation services, § 12184(a). . .Although the statutory definitions of "public accommodation" and "specified public transportation" do not expressly mention cruise ships, there can be no serious doubt that the NCL cruise ships in question fall within both definitions under conventional principles of interpretation."   

 

https://www.irmi.com/articles/expert-commentary/ada-applies-to-foreign-flag-cruise-ships-in-theory

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=542745041558206404&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

 

https://www.adatitleiii.com/2015/08/justice-department-applies-ada-title-iii-to-carnivals-cruise-ships-website-and-mobile-app-in-a-landmark-settlement/

[Turtles06]

58 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

No worries about disagreeing, I can accept that...

 

My disagreement is in the way that public parking lots permit most all sizes of vehicles to enter, but the markers are only so wide, which means that there will be a sub-set of vehicles who will not be able to park there due to the narrow size of the stripes.

 

I think there are only a few patrons who would refuse to shop there due to the size of the parking space, while others will figure out a better way.

 

bon voyage

 

There's absolutely nothing analogous between people who opt to drive tanks (oh, I mean 9-passenger "cars" and even larger vehicles), and people with physical disabilities that limit their mobility. 

[kearney]

I see questions about the Martini Bar and scooters. We spent quite a few happy hours there. As a side note... the entertainment was very mellow... the only time we saw the light show was at 6pm and then it was one song and the regular entertainment went on afterwards. Now... with regard to scooters..... we would usually go from our cabin forward on deck 7 down the forward elevator to deck 4 and go past the martini bar to the back elevator and down to deck three. We would pick a table on deck three.... park the scooter near the stairs...by the bar or at the entrance to the Martini Bar. Actually there was enough room that we could park near the table...but this was we kept the area open. Some of the chairs had arms and were easy (relatively) to get into and out of... we avoided the bench seating... and they had these velvet 'chairs' that had no arms people complained that they were sliding out of...  Now there was a ramp that goes behind the bar up to the midlevel. We did not go there... from a distance it looked like it would be difficult going between the bar chairs and table... I might be wrong. But I like the seats right along the rail of the middle section.  

On a separate note... later in the cruise we just would drive back from our cabin to the back elevator and go directly to deck 3... you can get there...it is just not as interesting a drive.

[kearney]

So while the thread has gone to scooters.. I feel the need to tell the rest of the story... about our scooter experience. This was the second time we have used a scooter. DH has just toughed it out on other cruises. Last Sept we went on Royal's President's Cruise on Harmony of the Seas... a very large ship. So we decided that since it worked so well there... we would try it on Edge. I took the precaution of changing to a cabin with bed by window... vs what we had. I could not get anything from Celeberity about whether a scooter would work in a cabin with bed by bath... so made the change from a cabin near elevator in the aft to one near elevator near forward elevator. After day one, DH noticed that the chair was not being charged.... by Day 3 he was certain that the charger was not working... day 4 we got off the shi[p and toured around the port shops. By the time we started going back on the ship... the scooter was clearly struggling.... a crew member and I helped push DH back on board.... but our confidence in the chair was strained. I went to Guest Services and asked if they had any extra chargers... they do not keep any extras on board. Keep in mind this is not just any company we rented from but one RCCL lists on their website. But they did send an electrician to look at the chair.. and yes DH was correct there was something wrong with the charger. GS did offer to help by providing a wheelchair.... at least now DH could still get around.... I got a really nice watch out of my services as pusher.... anyway. The last day we decided to try the chair again, since it had some juice.... just to go to dinner... we made it there and back... but it was clear we were lucky to get it back into the cabin. DH is livid... and frankly it makes sense that a company that clearly is recommended by RCCL ... should have some spare equipment on board. We tried to find a passenger with comparable equipment... but DH is a large guy and uses the medium size scooter that they offered and we did not see a similar scooter and GS had no idea who might have one that we could borrrow for a few hours.  Now it might be the fact that the ship is new... but I would hope that there would be some coordination between these providers to help ensure their equipment runs properly. Anyway... I am still blowing off steam...... the next issue was the nightmare getting off the ship

[kearney]

3 hours ago, dides said:

 

Here's a picture of the Eden elevator

 

Thanks for this.... now while the door opening you are looking at is fairly wide.... the depth ... as you are looking at it... is significantly shorter than a scooter.... and the door does not open up any more than this...  I wish I had taken my tape measure there. I was standing by the controls... so the scooter was up against the wall on the other side... if he had attempted a k turn... I would have been in the way. There must be a better way.

[Andy]

8 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

And who designs a place with so many steps? I can’t believe how inaccessible so many parts of Eden are.  Surely ADA should have come into play at some point in the planning?

Hi Cruisestitch,

 

We're just off Edge yesterday. Really liked the ship. Great Cabin. Most public venues were absolutely beautiful - though we were disappointed with the Casino. The S-Class Casino is so much nicer. Raw on Five & Fine Cuts were outstanding. Pier Check in For Suites & Zeniths was absolutely outstanding. Best I've ever experienced ! Loved the 4 Main Dining Rooms, as opposed to one huge MDR. Also liked that Cabins were available as you boarded the ship instead of waiting until 1 pm. If anyone wants me to post a review, please let me know.

 

Getting back to your comment, yes, there were a number of public areas that were multi-level and required use of steps for total access. Some places like the pool area had lifts to help out, but getting someone to assist with the lift was another story.

 

The Casino had many places that a scooter could not possibly navigate - but I was told that a crew was coming onboard yesterday to move slots around, to make the Casino more accessible. Sure hope so. Did you happen to see the seats at the Gaming tables ? If you are petite, they are probably fine. If you are a bigger person ? Forget it. And, they easily tip over. Celebrity **must** do something about this immediately ! Someone mentioned that new chairs are "on order". They need to be onboard within days, not weeks or longer.

Please don't get me wrong, I strongly believe that Guests will love Edge, and she will perform extremely well for Celebrity... but I sure wish they made a bigger effort for those who require the use of mobility devices. The good news is... I believe a fair amount of my concerns can be resolved, and will be sure to mention this on my comment card. Hopefully, Celebrity is listening.

 

Happy Holidays !

 

 

[marylander2]

4 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Trust me, being Elite Plus doesn't give you squat over what you get as Elite, other than the extra perks as advertised.  The one possible exception (and not even sure about this as I don't know everyone's status obviously) is that we have gotten invited to several sail-aways  on the helipad.  Never got any preferential seating in the MDR, Select Dining, or at a specialty restaurant - never.

This is true, sadly. 

However, I have a positive experience with Equinox a couple of years back, when we had difficulty with getting the Select Dining - the very first dinner that we had at MDR, we talked to the Assistant M'D at the entrance, and she accommodated us easily, more so, every time we had finished the dinner afterwards, we were reserving the time for tomorrow when exiting MDR - she was very sweet and helpful. Couple of time we reserved specialty restaurants with her the same way. 

That happened because, as she said the first time we've met her, we were Elite plus we were in Concierge class.

Go figure...

[Silkroad]

21 minutes ago, Andy said:

If anyone wants me to post a review, please let me know.

Please, please post a review!  I’ve greatly appreciated your even handed posts in the past, so your review would be very helpful🙂

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, Alakegirl said:

How can a scooter user “ figure out a better way,” when the elevator is unsuitable for scooters?🤔

 

This scooter dialogue is most likely going nowhere, as there are many different sizes of scooters and many different sizes of elevators... and I understand that not all elevators can accommodate all scooters unless it is a freight elevator and I can just hear now the commotion from some individuals who are deign to use a freight elevator to gain full access.

 

Personally, were I using a scooter I do not really believe that I would expect all venues to accommodate my scooter, as such I would try to verify if it will fit and if not, what can I do to access or get a scooter which will fit in most if not all elevators.

 

The elevator is 'suitable' for many elevators aboard The Edge or so I believe, it is a fact that there are some scooters which are not or require greater maneuverability to operate in a few.

 

I for one, do not fault X for trying to accommodate as best they can given the issues. I Am sure there will other issues governing access to other venues to arise.

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

 

There's absolutely nothing analogous between people who opt to drive tanks (oh, I mean 9-passenger "cars" and even larger vehicles), and people with physical disabilities that limit their mobility. 

Are there not various sizes of scooters?

 

On some sailings I have seen a few which I thought were tanks and took up most of the space in elevators and others which were 'compact' as it were and easy to maneuver around...

 

Yet, that is how I saw it.

 

I do appreciate that individuals get the vehicles which they are most comfortable with and desire, regardless of what I may think or believe.

 

After all, there is a wide array of sizes in scooters, like in automobiles and many of which can be accommodated on X.

 

I wonder how many other cruise lines/ships have similar challenges with 'access' to elevators and public areas, as cited by posters here.

 

bon voyage

[K12Guy]

8 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

I believe, maybe erroneously without boarding yet, that ALL parts of the ship are accessible, maybe not to the degree of 'accessibility' that one may desire, but accessible nevertheless....

 

Yes, it is quite possible that a tour of the ship cannot be accessible for all, yet other parts will be. Again, maybe not as convenient as one would 'prefer' and that is understandable.

 

bon voyage

I absolutely believe you must be retired from the Diplomatic Corps. Nicely done.

[K12Guy]

33 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

 

 'compact' as it were and easy to maneuver around... 

 

This leads me to wonder if developers and manufacturers, such as Segway, might be able to build a more vertical device that can still be sat upon for those with leg mobility issues. But, there would be a training issue, I'm almost sure.

[Bo1953]

40 minutes ago, K12Guy said:

This leads me to wonder if developers and manufacturers, such as Segway, might be able to build a more vertical device that can still be sat upon for those with leg mobility issues. But, there would be a training issue, I'm almost sure.

I believe they, Segway, were working on a 'mobility' chair as it were... not sure of its' current status as this was at least five (5) years ago.

 

bon voyage

[Lastdance]

Honestly, I do not know what to say about all of this, as it has left me speechless(unlikely)...I do not care whether I see the show or not, nor do I want to face the kitchen and dirty dishes...but, if I can just make my Edge cruise...life will be okay for me, as my expectations are very low at this point.  Things in life are all relative, but life goes on with or without us...but thanks for the warning about scooters and Eden, as when Eden was first created, there were no scooters...Celebrity will attend to the scooter issue for sure, especially after reading this thread; but it will not fix all scooter issues!

Edited December 25, 2018 by Lastdance