Chairs removed to make more room?

[oskidunker]

Thanks for doing this

[DRS/NC]

3 hours ago, Obsi said:

 

Probably not enough to make a difference, no.... but I'm not switching my next cruise to make a difference to Princess, I'm switching to make a difference to my ladies.  The decision was a few things, but the chair was the final deciding factor.

I've got a 100+ group booked in for an 8 day Princess cruise next year and I was going to book us in for a Princess 13 day NZ cruise in 2022 - but because of this thread I'm moving us to Cunard instead.  My ladies are all older (60s+), and judging by the cabins booked for our 2020 cruise, they will be mostly interior and window cabins (so no option for a balcony chair to be brought in).  For some of the ladies having a chair in the cabin will be very important.

 

The other factors were that in 2022 we'll be on Majestic, which I don't like as much as Golden, and I'd been wanting to try the Queen Elizabeth for the old fashioned look - but hadn't had a good reason to pay the higher price.  Now I do.

 

Personally I don't need the chair, but I feel bad for those who do.  I'm planning another NZ cruise with just DH and I, and we'll probably go Princess because it's cheaper and the chair situation won't be an issue for us (we'd also have a balcony)... We'd have to fly to go Celebrity, so not interested in that.  Since I don't feel my booking will make any difference to the overall numbers or the decision to put the chairs back, I don't think a personal boycott would change anything.  But the chair issue has absolutely influenced my decision to book my group in.

 

When you cancel this large group booking, PLEASE let PCL know IN WRITING (w/a copy to J. Swartz) why you are cancelling! And please let us know here on CC if PCL has any reaction.

Have fun on Cunard!

[richsea]

8 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

I don't think it has anything to do with cost cutting.  It has to do with too many people complained about not enough room and the "useless" chair was just getting in the way.  Of course, now that the chairs are being removed, others are complaining that the "Required" chair is a must for comfort.  Bottom line:  you can't please both groups so my guess is Princess will stay with the decision based on the loudest voices.  If those in the "required" group out scream those in the "useless" group, the chairs may magically reappear!  Otherwise, get used to sitting on the bed, or on the balcony, or on the floor!!  Actually, I'll just do the mini suite and sit on the couch...but you get the picture!

How do you know that many people complained about the “useless” chairs? I may be wrong, but I don’t recall any posts here through the years complaining about the chairs being in the room. They have been in the rooms for years and years; I find it odd that after all of these years Princess finally said “ok, way too many complaints, let’s get rid of the chairs” Your reasoning does not make sense to me.

[swomom]

A question comes to my mind regarding the idea that chairs were removed because of passengers complaints......if those were communicated by whatever means available, such as after cruise surveys. I always take the time to fill them out....it’s usually in my email by the time I get to the airport. I do all the ratings and highlight those whose service was above and beyond.

 

Never, in all these years have I ever made a comment something like this:  WOW! Thanks for the awesome chair!  (Or toilet tissue, t.v., sheets, hot water, breakfast room service menu, hangers, life jackets....yes, I could go on but I won’t.).  See where I’m going with this?

 

I am pretty sure that for every complaint that is made there are hundreds of, for lack of a better term....”non-complaints”. Yes, I too have been reading CC for many years and have never read about rampant dissatisfaction with the chair.  I opened my post alluding to asking a question...so, why did they do it?  It seems that it has not “brought joy” to many (Got organization?) just a little humor there🙂 

[caribill]

10 hours ago, Momma Mojito said:

I also want the barrel chair in our room.  of!!  Since they are already in the cabins  I see no reason for them to be removed. So explain to me how this comes into the effect of Princess cutting cost.  Yes, if they are broken or soiled they should be removed.

 

They have already saved money as they were not purchased for the Majestic.

 

After not having a number of complaints about the missing chair on the Majestic, it became an easy decision to remove them from other ships so as not having to worry about repair/replacement of those chairs as time goes on.

[jlp20]

Our next cruise is about 50 days away. On this ship there are four cabins that meet our needs. To be sure of the booking, we made deposit 18 months ago. One of the four had already been booked. So after a year of my booking they make the change. Rebook with another cruise line and wait another 1 1/2 years?

[DDG 41]

5 hours ago, DRS/NC said:

 

When you cancel this large group booking, PLEASE let PCL know IN WRITING (w/a copy to J. Swartz) why you are cancelling! And please let us know here on CC if PCL has any reaction.

 Have fun on Cunard!

READ.

They aren't cancelling any cruises. They just won't sail with PCL again for many good reasons.

[R**T]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

They have already saved money as they were not purchased for the Majestic.

 

After not having a number of complaints about the missing chair on the Majestic, it became an easy decision to remove them from other ships so as not having to worry about repair/replacement of those chairs as time goes on.

 

The Majestic Princess was built specifically for the Chinese market and has spent most of her life doing charters in China.  Do you imagine that Princess sends surveys to charter passengers in China?  Maybe they want chairs too.

[Obsi]

3 hours ago, DDG 41 said:

READ.

They aren't cancelling any cruises. They just won't sail with PCL again for many good reasons.

 

Yup, we're still doing this one we've already booked (too much hassle to change it now) but the next one we'll be doing Cunard.

[JEH]

I have been following this discussion  with interest and am wondering  if passengers will begin to remove chairs from public  areas and take them to their cabins ? 

[oskidunker]

1 hour ago, famski740 said:

This discussion will probably go on forever. I have been sports official for over 30 years and when I was training new officials I would always tell them:

 

On any of your calls; "You can only please half of the crowd and if you are good then you can only please them half of the time."

 

You will never get any type of agreement on this issue.

It looks like there are about 95% wanting the chair.  There IS agreement. Very few dont want it. Read through the 800 posts and you will find this to be true. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by oskidunker

[AZJerry]

21 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

I have posted on this thread several times. I am mystified, somewhat insulted and not a little PO'd at Princess' poor attitude and complete disregard for it's older and loyal passengers. 

Enough so that I cancelled our Sun Princess cruise for 2020 and just booked a transatlantic with Holland America. 
I think I'm done with this thread. 

Please make sure to let Jan Swartz know that you did this. 

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, Doug R. said:

Cruise Critic boards are a great source of information for the members,  how much it influences the cruise line decision making is probably nil.

 

In the past we have seen Princess be receptive to negative feedback for changes they made and have resinded or changed their decisions.  A number of examples have been listed on these boards.  

 

I really think that the intensity of the comments regarding this thread come from the fact that Princess is doing this unannounced and selling a product now that people are unaware has changed and the word is getting out.  I am sure it is going to show up on their cruise exit surveys and many other places too in the future.

 

I also wonder if the few posters who said they will not miss the chairs really do long cruises on Princess (20 plus days at a time).  I could see how doing a 7 or 10 day warm weather cruise might not necessitate having two chairs in the cabin.  We tend to do 20 - 30 plus day cruises on Princess.

 

The reality is that the market place will dictate the ultimate impact to Princess and IMHO they are putting themselves at a major marketing disadvantage when passengers start to compare what they will receive in comfort in balcony and inside cabins on other cruise lines versus Princess now.

 

It would be nice if Princess would just make an announcement of this is what they are doing and why instead of keeping people in the dark and being secretive!!!  

Edited March 9, 2019 by PrincessLuver

[Astro Flyer]

4 minutes ago, richsea said:

Just off the top of my head I can think of a few instances where cruise lines reversed unpopular decisions.

Princess reversed their decision to charge extra in Alfredos.

 

Princess rolled back the price of pre ordered water.

 

Celebrity reversed their decision to charge a fee to use their Solarium pool that was imposed shortly after the debut of their M class ships.

 

Celebrity reversed their decision to only serve upcharged upsacale hamburgers at their pool grill, while only offering free burgers in the buffet.

 

These were all hot button issues here on Cruise Critic for weeks.

Were the protests here the reason? Can’t prove it, maybe it’s only coincidence.😉😉  

In my opinion, cruise lines DO monitor these boards, & and in some cases, DO make decisions based upon what they see here.

There’s a difference...those are easily reversed policy changes & do not require any physical changes.

 

But have seen them make a few physical changes as a result of passenger input such as finishing the Royal’s midship stairs above deck 7 for passenger usage & adding a small aft pool on the Regal.  Although it took decades of complaints for them to add good beds to replace their cratered mattresses.

 

I am upset by the removal of the chair & support expressing dissatisfaction here & by emailing Princess.  However their original reason that it was requested by passengers wasn’t accepted by many of us & now they’ve added new reasons such as for safety and that we can request one onboard which no one has said was possible because they’re gone.

 

They’ve said the Majestic never had a 2nd chair & that it’s removal on other ships began last Fall but that neither resulted in pushback.  Many TAs were unaware of this change so their clients were unaware of the removal.

 

My guess is that lacking any substantial reduction in bookings Princess will not replace the chair because they’re not concerned about passenger comfort in over 80% of their cabins.  Instead they’re counting on this change to be forgotten without any substantial affect on their income.

[springfire]

3 hours ago, Doug R. said:

Cruise Critic boards are a great source of information for those members,  how much it influences the cruise line decision making is probably nil.

Upper management does takes notice of these Cruise Critic boards but like you said that doesn't mean they will change their decisions.  Michael Bayley, President and CEO of RCCL, would talk about his love and hate of cruise critic.  He loved the positive news and got upset because of negative reports on Cruise Critic.   He confirmed that they monitor these Cruise Critic boards.   I am sure Jan Swartz and her team monitor these boards as well but again not sure if it will get a chair back in the room.

[Astro Flyer]

2 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

I can't believe this thread has now gone well over 900 replies...

 

I'll bring up a couple of more changes I have heard about:

 

First, I understand they are now removing the beds from cabins...in order to make more room.  Without beds, the cabins are now quite spacious--among the most open floor space in the cruising industry.

 

Coming soon--they will be removing the toilets from the bathrooms.  This will also create more space allowing passengers to dress in the bathroom without fear of stumbling over the toilet.  Yes, it is one more place to sit down that will be missing, but you can always bring in a chair from the balcony...

 

   

Maybe have Murphy beds or a combination couch/bed like on Virgin Voyages. ☺️

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Astro Flyer

[jwattle]

7 minutes ago, Astro Flyer said:

Maybe have Murphy beds or a combination couch/bed like on Virgin Voyages. ☺️

 

Just don't charge like VirginVoyages Please!

[oskidunker]

We will see. Princess has reversed decisions 

 

For me, with 22 cruises on Princess in the past 25 years and no one else, it is causing me to consider other lines. Might be a nice change. We will see. I had considered Crystal recently but stayed with Princess because of a better Itinary. Cost not an issue. Its probably time to explore what is out there. The Ship now has more weight than the intinary, for me anyway. 

[camper49]

I called my TA to ask about the chairs...she reported back that she had spoken with two reps and they are unaware of this . 😎

[oskidunker]

Not surprising. Communication does not seem to be very good between those that decide and those that have to defend the decisions. 

[Astro Flyer]

9 minutes ago, camper49 said:

I called my TA to ask about the chairs...she reported back that she had spoken with two reps and they are unaware of this . 😎

That’s not surprising...they hoped to keep this a secret 🤫 which until this thread they had succeeded. 

[Beave8920]

2 hours ago, floridalover5623 said:

It's obvious that they're catering to the newer cruising generation who doesn't spend any time in the cabins. They're out spending money, not sitting there reading or watching TV. 😉

The checkout generation is beginning to dwindle and Princess has to look to the future in order to stay afloat.   

 

 

Floridalover, I would like to respectfully disagree.  I'm old school and as a business man, you learn in business 101 that the bread and butter of your successful business is your repeat and loyal returning customer.  You go out of your way to make that customer happy.  Because if they are happy, they tell their friends and that produces new customers, etc.  Marketing can't buy that kind of publicity.  How many friends have you encouraged to take a Princess Cruise?  I know I have many.

 

On the flip side of that comment is the unhappy customer who tells 5x as many people that's he's/she's unhappy.  Remember the old commercial, you tell 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends and so on and so on!  And with bad advertising / reviews, regardless if true or not, that information remains longer in the memory and is harder to repatriate that customer.

 

Now I have no idea if the powers to be at Princess are business educated, but I can't imagine that they would purposely attempt to alienate it's loyal base. I'm sure this was a miscalculation on their behalf.

 

I'm sure whatever it is it's a bottom line issue, and loyal and unhappy customers contribute to that bottom line many times over.  They can't afford to lose even some of that base. 

 

And remember, Ms. Swartz answers to stockholders and a Board of Directors!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Beave8920

[oskidunker]

If Florida doesnt need a chair, thats good. Sometimes on long cruises, not in the Carribean, there are long sea days when some might like to be in their cabins. Especially true on world cruises.

 

Some might not want to be at the bar or by the pool ordering drinks when the seas are rough. 

 

But I understand your point of view. Problem is on longer cruises the demographics do not show the preponderance of younger cruisers. 

[cruisingram1]

36 minutes ago, Beave8920 said:

 

Floridalover, I would like to respectfully disagree.  I'm old school and as a business man, you learn in business 101 that the bread and butter of your successful business is your repeat and loyal returning customer.  You go out of your way to make that customer happy.  Because if they are happy, they tell their friends and that produces new customers, etc.  Marketing can't buy that kind of publicity.  How many friends have you encouraged to take a Princess Cruise?  I know I have many.

 

On the flip side of that comment is the unhappy customer who tells 5x as many people that's he's/she's unhappy.  Remember the old commercial, you tell 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends and so on and so on!  And with bad advertising / reviews, regardless if true or not, that information remains longer in the memory and is harder to repatriate that customer.

 

Now I have no idea if the powers to be at Princess are business educated, but I can't imagine that they would purposely attempt to alienate it's loyal base. I'm sure this was a miscalculation on their behalf.

 

I'm sure whatever it is it's a bottom line issue, and loyal and unhappy customers contribute to that bottom line many times over.  They can't afford to lose even some of that base. 

 

And remember, Ms. Swartz answers to stockholders and a Board of Directors!

 

 

 

 

 

These same thoughts have swirled through my mind. 

Young families are typical on summer cruises. Shorter cruises. To warm climes during spring and summer breaks. I don’t think you find many families on transatlantic and 21 day cruises. Older cruisers have the time and money for longer cruises and more frequent trips. Younger families are not repeat customers- certainly not the folks taking 3 and 4 and 5 cruises a year. Princess really should be marketing to their repeat client base. Retired folks are still the bread and butter of the cruise industry. 

 

I also agree that an unhappy cruiser will tell more people than a happy cruiser. Many won’t know the chair is missing until they go to sit down. Maybe travel agents will start mentioning it’s demise if they get negative feedback. Only Princess will know if it starts affecting their bottom line.  So silly. The chair was already there. I can’t think of one reason to have removed it. 

[DDG 41]

6 hours ago, DRS/NC said:

 

As I said, PLEASE let PCL know why you will NOT be booking 100 people (your group) on a Princess as you'd originally planned.

That is NOT what you said. You said when they cancel, not why they won't be booking again.

READ.