One Main Course

[Hawaiidan]

47 minutes ago, kennicott said:

I bet this is just a feeler put out there by Stein Kruse in an attempt to convince the rest of the cruise industry to go along. We have about 200 days sailing on HAL but our last with them was a few years ago. Sticking with Princess and Regent. Speaking of Regent's sister line, Oceania, it appears to me that Frank Del Rio (FDR) has been working overtime in attempts to move other lines his way, both price wise and policy wise. Maybe Kruse is trying to emulate FDR.

 

In the last week or so FDR announced this: "So we’re focusing on price; we’re pushing price higher everywhere we can both in 2019 and 2020,” he said. “While we still have a lot of cabins to fill, the emphasis will be on raising prices across all three brands.” I don't know what it is with FDR, he loves to get up before these international cruise forum groups and shoot his face off. Maybe a little heavy on the booze or something. Remember, he just did the same in September too?

 

We have 150 days sailing on Regent, but our perks there don't carry over to Oceania. Coincidentally, at the time FDR made his recent pronouncement, I was considering an Oceania suite which provided the same perks as I would get if I had advanced Oceania loyalty status. I had yet to get into pricing and itinerary lengths, we prefer three weeks plus so that meant a B-2-B. Then I read FDR's latest, into the trash bin went the brochures. He is already out of sight price wise, his Regent cruise product is no longer commensurate with the few extra amenities we gain over Princess. 

 

So your saying  that you would pick Princess over  Regent because the difference is minimal gain with regent.    Are you serious....Princess is a  nice entry level cruise line tier...Regent is luxury     The difference is stark.    Your saying  I don't think Ritz Carlton offers much more that Best Western.     Its you  impression   Regent is  pushing 900+ a day.  But includes shore ex, rt business class air, all liquor, incredible food, tremendous  ambiance.   Add those costs to Princess and it too becomes expensive    I Sailed Regent over 100 days... but choose Oceania as  an alternative where I could choose what I wanted or not at 1/3 of the regent price.   My take of Regent is that it is a cruise for people who want to  have their hand held every second .

[eroller]

1 hour ago, kennicott said:

 

 

We have 150 days sailing on Regent, but our perks there don't carry over to Oceania. Coincidentally, at the time FDR made his recent pronouncement, I was considering an Oceania suite which provided the same perks as I would get if I had advanced Oceania loyalty status. I had yet to get into pricing and itinerary lengths, we prefer three weeks plus so that meant a B-2-B. Then I read FDR's latest, into the trash bin went the brochures. He is already out of sight price wise, his Regent cruise product is no longer commensurate with the few extra amenities we gain over Princess. 

 

 

 

He is my least favorite cruise line exec out of any of them.  His arrogance and disregard for the customer (except their pocketbook) is extremely off-putting.  As a past Oceania and NCL cruiser I would rather sail on other lines while he is at the helm.   

 

As for HAL charging for a second entree I think it's tacky.  I don't feel anyone really needs a second entree and nor do I ever order one, but part of the value of a cruise is knowing that you can if you want.  Do that many people order second entrees that HAL feels it's necessary to implement a charge?  I could see Carnival or perhaps NCL doing this, but HAL?  Seems really odd and certainly not in keeping with their brand image.  

Edited March 6, 2019 by eroller

[Hawaiidan]

5 hours ago, spirit-wedding? said:

I don't know if someone has already posted this same comment, but the food my husband and I "waste" on the cruises we take is the food that doesn't taste good.  We don't force ourselves to eat something that we are not enjoying.  Especially not when we have so many more options available to us.  Instead of charging for extra entrees Holland should look into offering less options and work on making the ones available tastier (at least in the buffet).  Maybe they would get less waste that way. 

They could  but prices would have to rise  for the crusie  10-20-30%       You can not get your goals achieved at the price point HAL charges...   Not possible paying for hamburger and expecting steak. 

 

:  Remember  the universal law of life..." Heat rises...water runs down hill.... there is NO free lunch" 

If you get something you dont like...you ordered it.    Dont order it again the next time.   If you were in a restaurant   very seldom would you get a free second dinner of something different  without a charge for the new dish....if your complaint was  I dont like it. as a matter of taste, not prep or quality.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, kennicott said:

FDR.

 

Maybe I ought to know, but I can't recall.  Who is "FDR"?  Franklin Delano Roosevelt rests comfortably in his grave as far as I know.

[eroller]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Maybe I ought to know, but I can't recall.  Who is "FDR"?  Franklin Delano Roosevelt rests comfortably in his grave as far as I know.

 

 

Frank Del Rio.  Head of NCLH (NCL, Oceania, Regent).  Even the fact he refers to himself as FDR speaks to his arrogance.  

[spirit-wedding?]

11 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

They could  but prices would have to rise  for the crusie  10-20-30%       You can not get your goals achieved at the price point HAL charges...   Not possible paying for hamburger and expecting steak. 

 

:  Remember  the universal law of life..." Heat rises...water runs down hill.... there is NO free lunch" 

If you get something you dont like...you ordered it.    Dont order it again the next time.   If you were in a restaurant   very seldom would you get a free second dinner of something different  without a charge for the new dish....if your complaint was  I dont like it. as a matter of taste, not prep or quality.

 

I'm not expecting to pay for hamburger and expecting steak.  I'm paying for hamburger and expecting it to taste like a good hamburger not a mediocre one. 

[VennDiagram]

15 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

If you get something you dont like...you ordered it.    Dont order it again the next time.   If you were in a restaurant   very seldom would you get a free second dinner of something different  without a charge for the new dish....if your complaint was  I dont like it. as a matter of taste, not prep or quality.

 

Like several other comments I've read,  not entirely accurate.  At one time in my life I dined out regularly, and became a "regular" at several restaurants.  If I didn't care for something I ordered, the restaurant would happily replace it without charge.  HAL has plenty of "regulars" -- just look at everyone who is  a 3, 4 or 5 star Mariner.  I'd expect the same courtesy on the ship that I've experienced in land based restaurants.

 

 

[rkacruiser]

17 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

Frank Del Rio.  Head of NCLH (NCL, Oceania, Regent).  Even the fact he refers to himself as FDR speaks to his arrogance.  

 

Thanks!  I recall his name.  He has bounced from one company to another over the years, if I recall correctly.

[sammiedawg]

I wouldn’t characterize him as a bounce around. He was an exec with Renaissance. They went under after 9/11, gee imagine that. 

Then in 2002,  he founded Oceania, known as Prestige Holdings.   

[kazu]

21 minutes ago, VennDiagram said:

 

Like several other comments I've read,  not entirely accurate.  At one time in my life I dined out regularly, and became a "regular" at several restaurants.  If I didn't care for something I ordered, the restaurant would happily replace it without charge.  HAL has plenty of "regulars" -- just look at everyone who is  a 3, 4 or 5 star Mariner.  I'd expect the same courtesy on the ship that I've experienced in land based restaurants.

 

 

 

I do believe you just hit the nail on the head.

 

Well said 🙂 

[kennicott]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

So your saying  that you would pick Princess over  Regent because the difference is minimal gain with regent.   .

No, I'm not saying that at all. We have about 150 days sailing on Regent and over 300 days sailing on Princess. We know both lines very well. What I'm saying is you get what you pay for. If you select add-ons offered by the mainstream line (Princess) you can easily come up with a cruise of superior quality to that offered on a similar itinerary by the so called "luxury" line, Regent.

 

 

As a for instance. We just finished up last cruise year with two cruises, one on Princess and one on Regent. Princess was 29 days and Regent 22, both trans-oceans. On Princess we had a full suite, an Owners Suite, on the Mariner we had a Concierge Suite. The Owners Suite including balcony was about 1000 square feet, the Concierge Suite was 301 sq. ft including balcony. With the Princess Suite we received "Club Class" dining plus exclusive breakfasts in one of the specialty restaurants.

 

 

Shore excursions were about equal, although most Regent shore excursions were included and we paid separately for the Princess excursions. From a food and dining quality standpoint Princess had a significant edge at breakfast and a slight edge at dinner. Obviously, from a cabin standpoint the Princess accommodations were far better. Regent had the edge in on board ambience. The Princess vessel, Pacific Princess, had 670 guests, the Regent Mariner had 700. The Mariner is 48,000 gross tons, the Pacific Princess is 30,300 gross tons.

 

 

We paid $530.00 per person per day on Princess which included about $3,000 in excursions. We paid $631.00 per day per person on Regent. Business Class Air Seattle to Venice was included in the Princess price. We paid our own air on Regent this time.

Edited March 6, 2019 by kennicott

[cruisebie]

4 hours ago, ottahand7 said:

I missed a lot of the comments on the 25 pages here.  I don't know if anyone has brought up the waiters in this other than tracking extra orders.  We dined in the MDR once on our cruise on the Rdam last month.  I could not believe how those waiters carried those massive trays.  So they have a table of 6 and 2 people order extra entrees.  Another table's 3 of 6 ordered double appetizers.   I think that sorting it all out and getting food delivered to our table added up to cold food.  I am sure that they are asked about extra plate ordering and wastage and work load. 

 

 

 

This is an interesting point and one I've not seen discussed yet. What will the effect on MDR service be if this new policy is implemented? I would imagine that more people will order extra appetizers, salads, etc to avoid paying the $10 fee for an extra entree.  This and the extra time the waiters will need to process the $10 charge for those who do opt for the extra entree is bound to slow things down.   

 

Maybe what they're really going for is a savings on dessert costs. We may all have to skip dessert if we're going to make the evening entertainment on time. 😂

[AtlantaCruiser72]

2 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

Frank Del Rio.  Head of NCLH (NCL, Oceania, Regent).  Even the fact he refers to himself as FDR speaks to his arrogance.  

 

Or as he is more Commonly known Frank Del FEE-o ...... along with his NCL "FEE@sea" marketing scam!!!!!  There is a reason NCL is nicknamed the  "Nickel and dime Cruise Line"

 

HAL, along with the rest of the mainstream lines, seems to be heading the way of fees for everything.  It has really cheapened the overall experience and made cruising less pleasurable.  I have looked at options like Viking, Azamara and Oceania as an alternate, but even factoring the extras they offer I just can't justify the jump in pricing for the types of cruises and rooms I typically book.  So, for now I have to put up with the push for ancillary revenue onboard HAL, Celebrity, Princess and Royal.  I will no longer sail NCL or Carnival - period!

Edited March 6, 2019 by AtlantaCruiser72

[san diego spartan]

3 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

He is my least favorite cruise line exec out of any of them.  His arrogance and disregard for the customer (except their pocketbook) is extremely off-putting.  As a past Oceania and NCL cruiser I would rather sail on other lines while he is at the helm.   

 

As for HAL charging for a second entree I think it's tacky.  I don't feel anyone really needs a second entree and nor do I ever order one, but part of the value of a cruise is knowing that you can if you want.  Do that many people order second entrees that HAL feels it's necessary to implement a charge?  I could see Carnival or perhaps NCL doing this, but HAL?  Seems really odd and certainly not in keeping with their brand image.  

This is a good comment - I could totally see the Carnival or NCL doing this but I do agree I've always though of HAL as more of a premium cruise line and to do this is nickle and dime.  I was on Oceania 2 years ago and actually really enjoyed it - I have no clue on the head of Oceania and the statements attributed to him.  I actually felt that while it was more expensive, more things were included and we were not "bothered" with all the upgrade options or other things.  We have really enjoyed Celebrity in the last several years and it started us cruising again after several years break.  We had fond memories of HAL so when we went to book our next 2 cruises we decided to give them a try.  This $10 for 2nd entree is ridiculous - whether you tend to order one or not.  We probably do not, but have at times and I just think it seems in my mind to downgrade HAL somewhat to a more "mainstream" (I could use another word but won't) cruise line like the ones in the quoted comment.  We will see how it goes.  

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

Frank Del Rio.  Head of NCLH (NCL, Oceania, Regent).  Even the fact he refers to himself as FDR speaks to his arrogance.  

 

Does he really refer to himself as FDR?  Or is it that others refer to him in that way?  (I'm not hugely familiar with him but have read a few interviews over the years and never saw him say anything like that....

 

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, kennicott said:

 

While  I don't agree.... the difference are so radical on so many levels.    However, if that is your reality, I can not argue a persons reality.   It's how you perceive things to be.       If you consider Princess superior then it is if that's your belief.and  I have to respect that.       

[eroller]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Does he really refer to himself as FDR?  Or is it that others refer to him in that way?  (I'm not hugely familiar with him but have read a few interviews over the years and never saw him say anything like that....

 

 

 

Lets just say he embraces it and that is how he is commonly referred to by colleagues in the industry.  Great for the ego, which is already pretty big.  

[DrSea]

Some of the doctors that I work with are cancelling their cruises where we get continuing medical education after I told them about 10 fee. They never been on HAL before. But they are cancelling after they heard about the entirety of my negative experience with them. 

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, spirit-wedding? said:

 

I'm not expecting to pay for hamburger and expecting steak.  I'm paying for hamburger and expecting it to taste like a good hamburger not a mediocre one. 

I agree.... but this complaint of charging on a mediocre mainstream line is complaining for fine dining  nor a burger. HAL is no different from every other mainstream line that earns much of its profit from all the little extra charges is lays on its passengers...  That par for the course.    its what HAL is.

[kennicott]

19 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

      If you consider Princess superior then it is if that's your belief.and  I have to respect that.        

Well, I'm confused as to what you seem to not agree or agree with me on. As you say, "you have to respect that". Hard for me to get a handle on your logic i.e. "If you consider Princess superior then it is if that's your belief and  I have to respect that." Well, that is certainly not my stated opinion but your simple judgement of what I have posted. You appear to be consigned  to make radical judgments of my opinions. Not sure where you get this, perhaps I fail to articulate accurately. Anyway, I assume we are equal in our cruise time experience on both Princess and Regent. So I guess it is a draw, whatever that means.

Edited March 6, 2019 by kennicott

[Crusinsusan2]

5 minutes ago, DrSea said:

Some of the doctors that I work with are cancelling their cruises where we get continuing medical education after I told them about 10 fee. They never been on HAL before. But they are cancelling after they heard about the entirety of my negative experience with them. 

 

Are you really saying that the doctors you work with that can and do take a 100% tax write off for their entire cruise expense for themselves and family because they have shown they have attended 1 or 2 CME classes arranged and available on board will forego this significant vacation write-off in exchange for an additional $10.00 for a second entree?    

[colbe]

38 minutes ago, DrSea said:

Some of the doctors that I work with are cancelling their cruises where we get continuing medical education after I told them about 10 fee. They never been on HAL before. But they are cancelling after they heard about the entirety of my negative experience with them. 

Do your medical doctors receive no nutrition training? I can not imagine a single one of my doctor friends thinking that it was okay to order two mains (entrees).

[iancal]

We do not get excited about cruise line execs, cruise ship captains, or cruise lines for that matter.

 

Change is so constant in this industry.  Five years ago we might not have considered MSC.  Now we would.    Change is an impetus for us to try different cruise lines and different ships.  I suspect that some cruise lines will be left behind if they lack good leadership and are afraid to innovate or change.

[DrSea]

7 hours ago, Crusinsusan2 said:

 

Are you really saying that the doctors you work with that can and do take a 100% tax write off for their entire cruise expense for themselves and family because they have shown they have attended 1 or 2 CME classes arranged and available on board will forego this significant vacation write-off in exchange for an additional $10.00 for a second entree?    

It is not a write off. It is a part of our compensation that we get funding that is specifically dedicated to get additional training. We get X amount of funding to spend, but these cruises almost always exceed that funding. I just told them about the nickle and diming experience I had on HAL, and they booked another CME cruise with another cruise line. We have lots of options for GME. 

 

I won't quote  that person, but I'll respond. Doctors get trained in nutrition. I did a rotation in med school in it and did research on food security on underprivileged children. Getting a second entree on my vacation isn't an indictment of my clinical acumen. Lol, this is a perfect example of the disrespect and ridiculousness that we doctors experience in our offices/hospitals. 

[Underwatr]

12 hours ago, VennDiagram said:

 

Like several other comments I've read,  not entirely accurate.  At one time in my life I dined out regularly, and became a "regular" at several restaurants.  If I didn't care for something I ordered, the restaurant would happily replace it without charge.  HAL has plenty of "regulars" -- just look at everyone who is  a 3, 4 or 5 star Mariner.  I'd expect the same courtesy on the ship that I've experienced in land based restaurants.

 

I don't think anyone has seen that HAL will charge a dinner who sends an entree back (for any reason).