One Main Course

[AmazedByCruising]

9 minutes ago, Despegue said:

Without happy customers who feel appreciated and not milked for money, there will be no business.

if a company puts a highest profit as a first objective, it is doomed to fail and deservedly so.

 

 

In order to got the highest profit, you need customers who come back. That's the whole point of capitalism. It's the only reason the cruising industry even exists. Nobody puts a kart circuit on top of a ship if he doesn't think it would make guests happier, that is the only way to make it profitable.

 

[iancal]

Absolutely.  There have been other cutbacks on HAL that have impacted our choice of ship/cruise line far more than this would.  To the point where there are some HAL ships that we would not consider for a cruise.

[Roz]

2 hours ago, boards said:

it is amazing how much smarter some of you are than the people who work in the industry.

Lots of companies and industries have gone out of business because they misread the market, and/or were out of touch with their customers.  Just because someone works in an industry doesn't make them an expert or indicate they have their pulse on their customers' needs and opinions.

 

Roz

[Hawaiidan]

59 minutes ago, drowelf said:

 

The stated rationale for this test by HAL just does not pass the smell test for me. I think its just a simple cash grab that they are trying to slip past us. 

 

Your not thinking this  through... Its a simple price increase  another item that can be increased... Its not difficult  to see.   The Test concept is just a good Public Relation way to introduce change.   Its a done deal,   HAL  is not trying to slip something in... its plain and bold they need to improve income..

Call that a cash grab,  robbery, a rip off....anything you want.   Change is your adversary. and HAL has to change or perish.

. 

 

  Here is the deal...HAL is a company that is in business to make money.   You may not like how they make it, but it is their right to charge  what the market will bare...  Your only "right" is to either accept it of walk..... that's reality!

You can pretend that they will listen to your wants over their needs.    That is not going to happen..ever.

Cost are going up across the board, they either need to raise income or go out of business.   

So everyone  relax move on  its nothing more than business as usual.   I f you dont like the change  find another way or line to enjoy. 

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, Roz said:

Lots of companies and industries have gone out of business because they misread the market, and/or were out of touch with their customers.  Just because someone works in an industry doesn't make them an expert or indicate they have their pulse on their customers' needs and opinions.

 

Roz

 

So true, in my opinion!  And, when some of those executives have little to no experience in the industry, mistakes are made with some of there decisions.

 

HAL, due to retirement I believe, have lost a significant number of cruise-line experienced senior executives in recent years.  Some were long tenured HAL employees.  I think it is the decisions being made by some of these individuals that is causing concern among many of us.

[iancal]

That may be so.  But just think back to when the then HAL executives took the cruise line to the edge of bankruptcy.  If it had not been for the last minute Carnival Corp buy out HAL would probably not exist today.  

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, iancal said:

That may be so.  But just think back to when the then HAL executives took the cruise line to the edge of bankruptcy.  If it had not been for the last minute Carnival Corp buy out HAL would probably not exist today.  

 

That is true.  But, the executives that did so are NOT the ones that served in the Kirk Lanterman era when the HAL that many of us remember--and compare "those days" with "the experience of today"--had responsibility for HAL's past problems.

 

From what I know, when Carnival purchased HAL, a new executive team was gradually put place to help create the up-scale cruise line division that Micky Arison was trying to form.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by rkacruiser

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Another way to look at it is that they try to find out what people really want or dislike, and adjust their services accordingly. And that's precisely what a business should do IMHO, no matter how many people say that the product should still have all the features it had in the 80s, forgetting that almost noone could afford a cruise at the time. 

 

 

Count me as another who will have to disagree with that truism (which isn't true) about cruising being unaffordable. I started cruising with my family when I was about 9 years old, in 1972, and we were far from 'wealthy' but travel was important to us. We sailed as a family of four in one inside cabin on the lowest floor of the ship -- but we sailed, and did it about once a year. Or we took budget vacations in Europe offered by teachers' associations or the like. 

 

People in the early days of cruising simply didn't really KNOW about cruising. Or they formed their ideas based on what they saw on television in the "Love Boat" series. 

 

Like many other things, cruising was affordable if one made it a priority. We had one car (usually a hand-me-down from grandparents) long past the time when most families had two. We lived frugally. And we traveled. 

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

Your not thinking this  through... Its a simple price increase  another item that can be increased... Its not difficult  to see.   The Test concept is just a good Public Relation way to introduce change.   Its a done deal,   HAL  is not trying to slip something in... its plain and bold they need to improve income..

Call that a cash grab,  robbery, a rip off....anything you want.   Change is your adversary. and HAL has to change or perish.

. 

I think you're misunderstanding -- the point being argued is this:  HAL is claiming their sole aim in instituting this charge is to reduce waste. I believe many of us take exception to that, having noticed countless other (addressable) things aboard ship that generate as much or more waste than the occasional passenger ordering a second entree in the MDR and not finishing it.

 

So HAL, be honest. It's a money grab.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

  Here is the deal...HAL is a company that is in business to make money.   You may not like how they make it, but it is their right to charge  what the market will bare...  Your only "right" is to either accept it of walk..... that's reality!

You can pretend that they will listen to your wants over their needs.    That is not going to happen..ever.

Cost are going up across the board, they either need to raise income or go out of business.   

So everyone  relax move on  its nothing more than business as usual.   I f you dont like the change  find another way or line to enjoy. 

 

I don't believe this is true. We have more options than to simply accept something at face value or walk away. We have the right to protest it, to make our displeasure known to those who made the change in the first place.  Certainly they can choose to ignore such protests -- or in some cases (and there have been some), changes or modifications may be made when the level of displeasure is high enough. Several examples of that happening have already been given in this thread.

[TAD2005]

17 hours ago, colbe said:

Do your medical doctors receive no nutrition training? I can not imagine a single one of my doctor friends thinking that it was okay to order two mains (entrees).

Please stop with the "Fat Shaming".   Just because a couple wants to sample an entree that they have never tried before and want to share it, on top of the already tiny entrees they ordered, doesn't mean they are morbidly obese, gluttonous slobs.   If you are happy with your entree, wonderful, but stop with the ridiculing that is hinted at by some posts on this thread.   Let people enjoy whatever dinner they want, without now having to worry that someone is peeking over their shoulder, and posting on social media that "a guest in table 52 had an extra pork chop"   

The food waste in the Lido is enormous compared to the few people in the MDR that want to share a 2nd entree.  This has nothing to do with "maintaining HAL's food quality or reducing food waste", this is a cash grab being passed off as something that is purported as beneficial to the guests.

[AmazedByCruising]

14 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Count me as another who will have to disagree with that truism (which isn't true) about cruising being unaffordable. I started cruising with my family when I was about 9 years old, in 1972, and we were far from 'wealthy' but travel was important to us. We sailed as a family of four in one inside cabin on the lowest floor of the ship -- but we sailed, and did it about once a year. Or we took budget vacations in Europe offered by teachers' associations or the like. 

 

People in the early days of cruising simply didn't really KNOW about cruising. Or they formed their ideas based on what they saw on television in the "Love Boat" series. 

 

Like many other things, cruising was affordable if one made it a priority. We had one car (usually a hand-me-down from grandparents) long past the time when most families had two. We lived frugally. And we traveled. 

 

Thank you! I really thought it was the rich and famous who could afford cruising before, say, 1980. I was envisioning crew with white gloves, men wearing top hats, and ladies wearing a million worth of diamonds. And long sea days, where daily activities would be being playing bridge or shuffleboard and ordering entrees. 

[wombatKY]

20 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

Thank you! I really thought it was the rich and famous who could afford cruising before, say, 1980. I was envisioning crew with white gloves, men wearing top hats, and ladies wearing a million worth of diamonds. And long sea days, where daily activities would be being playing bridge or shuffleboard and ordering entrees. 

Didn't you see Titanic?

[AmazedByCruising]

28 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I think you're misunderstanding -- the point being argued is this:  HAL is claiming their sole aim in instituting this charge is to reduce waste

 

Of course that's not their sole aim.  Like everyone understands that the "Put your towel on the floor to have it replaced"-policy is not entirely driven by a love for the environment.

 

[OlsSalt]

• Traveling by ship was one thing; cruising as an enhanced onboard experience was another. As a new business model "cruising"  as we think of it today did not start allegedly until the company that became Celebrity converted the passenger ship Galleleo Gallilei to the Meridian. in the late 1970s.
•  
• Before that was often fairly bare bones to travel by ship, unless one purchased one of the few first class cabins. All our own ship travel experiences before those days  ( Greek Chandris - Grandparents - Lurline - Parents P&O) had little to do with the amenities one finds generally on mostly all cruise ships today -mainly the proliferation of mass market  ensuite cabins.
•  
• Before it was  bunk beds and bathrooms down the hall - were those really "cruise ships" - not by today's definition. But cruise the world we did, and the prices could be very modest. And the self-sufficient passenger, who arranged all other  travel activities on their own was the name of the game.

[AmazedByCruising]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Before it was  bunk beds and bathrooms down the hall - were those really "cruise ships" - not by today's definition. But cruise the world we did, and the prices could be very modest. And the self-sufficient passenger, who arranged all other  travel activities on their own was the name of the game

 

Sorry, but I was reminded of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE 🙂

[Caribbean Chris]

11 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

• Traveling by ship was one thing; cruising as an enhanced onboard experience was another. As a new business model "cruising"  as we think of it today did not start allegedly until the company that became Celebrity converted the passenger ship Galleleo Gallilei to the Meridian. in the late 1970s.

 

I have to disagree. I joined the cruise industry as a marketing rep for Costa Line in Washington, DC in the late 1970s, and I assure you that “cruising” as we know it today was very well established. The marketing oriented Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) was vigorously promoting the affordability of cruising vs resort vacations, and - with other reps from Princess, Holland America Line, Home Lines, Carnival, Sun Line, Royal Viking Line, Sitmar, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Cunard, Norwegian America Lines, and others I’m leaving out, no doubt - I worked to fill the many berths available. Celebrity was still Chandris.

 

[fatcat04]

18 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Sorry, but I was reminded of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE 🙂

Rofl!! I have thought of that skit every single time these comments have been made. That and wondered if taking turns rowing the galley was considered an excursion or exercise class. 😂

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I think you're misunderstanding -- the point being argued is this:  HAL is claiming their sole aim in instituting this charge is to reduce waste. I believe many of us take exception to that, having noticed countless other (addressable) things aboard ship that generate as much or more waste than the occasional passenger ordering a second entree in the MDR and not finishing it.

 

So HAL, be honest. It's a money grab.

 

 

 

I don't believe this is true. We have more options than to simply accept something at face value or walk away. We have the right to protest it, to make our displeasure known to those who made the change in the first place.  Certainly they can choose to ignore such protests -- or in some cases (and there have been some), changes or modifications may be made when the level of displeasure is high enough. Several examples of that happening have already been given in this thread.

I wish you well...in a perfect world it might happen.... The  protest on this board is probably less than .01% of their customer base.     Its a beautiful dream to have.    I live in the real world    Your protests have no teeth  and you have no leverage.      Best to enjoy life and not beat your head against a wall.  Life is too short.  There are many other options to HAL..... put your energy there.

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

So true, in my opinion!  And, when some of those executives have little to no experience in the industry, mistakes are made with some of there decisions.

 

HAL, due to retirement I believe, have lost a significant number of cruise-line experienced senior executives in recent years.  Some were long tenured HAL employees.  I think it is the decisions being made by some of these individuals that is causing concern among many of us.

Managment 101:    the proper action to take faced with declining revenue is to reduce costs and or raise prices.   It is not to pump money into improving.    Managers do not have to be all that cruise savy , just educated in  economic responsibility.. 

 

  What was  was was....its a new day.    Going down the road at 60 mph looking only in the rear view mirror is  going to end up not good   It is not wise to plan the future based on this is how we used to do it..      For every old cruiser  who tells HAL to stuff it  there will be  several new customers for which the past is not a problem.

 

 

 

[wombatKY]

11 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

The  protest on this board is probably less than .01% of their customer base.     Its a beautiful dream to have.    I live in the real world    Your protests have no teeth  and you have no leverage.      Best to enjoy life and not beat your head against a wall.  Life is too short.  There are many other options to HAL..... put your energy there.

 

My experience doesn't support your opinion.

 

Disney tried to implement a charge for a beloved item from their room service menu. There was a huge response from their cruisers! Low and behold the item remains free on the menu today. 

[sahara1]

Hal replied no mariners discount on the extra charge.

[kazu]

20 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

I wish you well...in a perfect world it might happen.... The  protest on this board is probably less than .01% of their customer base.     Its a beautiful dream to have.    I live in the real world    Your protests have no teeth  and you have no leverage.     

 

I don’t know where you are dreaming up your numbers from - probably the same place as all your other words of wisdom.

 

IF only .01% are reflected here, then please explain to me how I could have over 10% of the ship on a roll call?

 

And currently nearly 8%, on my upcoming cruise.

 

You can talk all the big talk you want but you have no facts.

[Hawaiidan]

5 minutes ago, wombatKY said:

 

My experience doesn't support your opinion.

 

Disney tried to implement a charge for a beloved item from their room service menu. There was a huge response from their cruisers! Low and behold the item remains free on the menu today. 

Your talking 2 very different companies   Disney VS Carnival  ( HAL  ir really a up scale Carnival)    Also given prices on Disney are among the highest.    AND  Disney raised them more.   They saw a 4-5% decline but a 9% increase in profit.

[AncientWanderer]

35 minutes ago, Caribbean Chris said:

 

I have to disagree. I joined the cruise industry as a marketing rep for Costa Line in Washington, DC in the late 1970s, and I assure you that “cruising” as we know it today was very well established. The marketing oriented Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) was vigorously promoting the affordability of cruising vs resort vacations, and - with other reps from Princess, Holland America Line, Home Lines, Carnival, Sun Line, Royal Viking Line, Sitmar, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Cunard, Norwegian America Lines, and others I’m leaving out, no doubt - I worked to fill the many berths available. Celebrity was still Chandris.

Oddly enough, when I was in college in 1978, one of the cruise lines (Cunard, maybe?) had an ad in the paper for a "World Cruise."  It was right around a hundred thousand dollars.  (Was that an "inside," as they quote the least expensive staterooms now?)  Anyhow, dreaming, I clipped the ad and posted it on my college refrigerator.  That was a lot of money back then, but, weirdly, you can still do a world cruise for about that price -- or less.  So cruising, like air travel, has really become accessible to most people.  What's my point here?  I dunno.  Just laughing to myself that I was destined to be a cruise fanatic, and that I'm glad so much is available now.  So 10 bucks for that extra mushroom risotto?  Not sure I care.

35 minutes ago, Caribbean Chris said:

 

 

[kennicott]

I agree with those who urge a little constraint here. In that, if you are a long time HAL faithful, getting a little overheated and abandoning HAL for some other line might be a mistake. I still suggest that a good bet is this action is just a feeler put out there by Stein Kruse in an attempt to convince the rest of the cruise industry to go along. Similar to what the airlines have been doing for years, try out a new fare or program and if it doesn't take then junk it.

 

To me, this move isn't all that significant, compare this to what FDR is currently saying.  As I mentioned before, over the last few months  Frank Del Rio (FDR) (CEO of Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania and Regent)  has been working overtime in attempts to move other cruise lines and the entire industry to follow him, both price wise and policy wise. In the last week or so FDR announced this: "So we’re focusing on price; we’re pushing price higher everywhere we can both in 2019 and 2020,” he said. “While we still have a lot of cabins to fill, the emphasis will be on raising prices across all three brands.”

 

Do your due diligence in looking at other cruise lines, sometimes the grass looks greener on the other side, when it actually isn't.  Don't leap from the pan into the fire.