Guaranteed cabin and rci have downgraded us

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, Threedrones said:

Again, where is this in item 6?

 

It’s literally the second line of the clause....deviate from....lodging...

 

6. CANCELLATION, DEVIATION OR SUBSTITUTION BY CARRIER:
a. Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination, lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or
Page 3 of 13

 

[Threedrones]

32 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 

It’s literally the second line of the clause....deviate from....lodging...

 

6. CANCELLATION, DEVIATION OR SUBSTITUTION BY CARRIER:
a. Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination, lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or
Page 3 of 13

 

Thank you. I didn’t see the word “lodging”. Mea culpa

[Ourusualbeach]

2 minutes ago, Threedrones said:

Thank you. I didn’t see the word “lodging”. Mea culpa

Typical legalese, make it difficult to understand. 🙂

[Saab4444]

8 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Where are all the EU consumer protection laws that we hear so much about?

The law steps in if you write them accordingly or sue them in worst case but not if you discuss on cruise critic. There are indeed regulations in place if e.g. a plane is overbooked or late or if a hotel is overbooked. Nothing else happened here. They have to cover you as per contract or compensate you. Just talk to Royal and negotiate a deal that is acceptable for you. Happens all the time in the travel industry...

[ONECRUISER]

8 hours ago, mayleeman said:

But the required compensation for bumping involuntarily is now tripled over what it used to be, and the practice is comparatively rare. And somehow the airlines struggle on with record profits.

More seats, that are smaller. Higher Fees for EVERYTHING. I fly on one Airline, no seats that recline and 40# weight limit on Luggage. My bags are already 9 and 10# each while empty. Then they also charge you for bags checked and carry on

Edited May 28, 2019 by ONECRUISER

[papaflamingo]

On 5/24/2019 at 12:03 PM, John Reid said:

Live with it or don't cruise?

Oh, the little flamingoes must be so proud of Papa's wisdom.

The fine print seems to say RCCL is breaking the contract.

 

"That's 'cause it ain't hard

To get along with somebody else's troubles,

And they don't make you lose any sleep at night.

Just as long as fate is there bustin' somebody else's bubbles,

Everything's gonna be all right."

 

Steve Goodman

Maybe you should explain to me, as you are clearly much wiser than me,  exactly what alternatives you have once the final decision is made?    By the way, you don't actually have to be a totally condescending jerk you know, or is that simply your "delightful personality?" 

Edited May 28, 2019 by papaflamingo

[Starry Eyes]

19 hours ago, mayleeman said:

So I guess I am a conspiracy theorist.

 

Pray tell, all ye of innocent explanations, why the letter to the OP said RCI "can't" provide any better to the OP for this problem?

 

Who the heck is preventing them?  It is a lie, pure and simple. The correct word would have been "won't".  Lies in explanations almost always connote bad faith. But maybe there is a sweet little heart-of-gold letter writer who unintentionally lied.

Hmm, can we please separate some issues rather than run them together?

 

The first issue: What is the source of the overbooking...could it be an inadvertent overbooking of OV cabins due a mechanical or or computer clerical issue? Or must it have been a malicious scheme by a bean counter to steal the cabin for one customer and grant it to a someone later for more $.  We cannot know, but the rarity of reports of these events seems consistent with the former.  So why assume the worst?

 

Second issue:  “the letter”. That appears to be a communication from their travel agency that copies one email (probably from a series so some context is likely missing) from Royal.  So it is not really a letter from Royal to the guest.  Just a brief note to a TA denying a request and ending the negotiation (Personally, I do not like that the OP was forced into this negotiation; I think the cruiseline should have found a willing party with whom to negotiate)

 

Third issue: How is compensation meted out?  The person sending that email seems authorized to give certain compensation in a amount and form(OBC). When the guest wanted it in a different form, that may not be authorized. (departmental budgeting, perhaps).  And, again lacking context of other emails, I might speculate that the price of the current drinks package is now higher, so refunding previously purchased drink package and repurchasing with OBC was losing proposition for the OP.  These are guesses on my part, but I would not call lack of authorization to negotiate higher amounts, different forms, or different pricing to be “lies.”   Lack of authority might make negotiations frustrating, but that’s reality not a lie.  

[SRF]

18 hours ago, robtulipe said:

It is as shown below.

 

]

 

We did a submarine ride in Hawaii.

 

It was just like the Disney ride, except it really submerged. 😄

 

[bobbyandali]

On 5/24/2019 at 7:25 PM, Ourusualbeach said:

Or perhaps there was a mechanical or some other issue with one or more staterooms that they had to take them out of service for a while which has happened in the past.  

 

So... let's say I book and pay for Room 7429. Something happens to that room the last night of the cruise before mine, and it causes Room 7429 to go out of service for a week. Further, all other rooms in that category are sold out.

What happens to me, then? Would they upgrade me to a nicer room category? Or would they downgrade me to a lower category and refund the difference?  I think the "guarantee room" thing is getting too much weight. It could happen to anyone, reserved room or guarantee room. 

[Ourusualbeach]

5 minutes ago, bobbyandali said:

 

So... let's say I book and pay for Room 7429. Something happens to that room the last night of the cruise before mine, and it causes Room 7429 to go out of service for a week. Further, all other rooms in that category are sold out.

What happens to me, then? Would they upgrade me to a nicer room category? Or would they downgrade me to a lower category and refund the difference?  I think the "guarantee room" thing is getting too much weight. It could happen to anyone, reserved room or guarantee room. 

Totally agree, the guarantee part of this is irrelevant, it could happen to any cabin.

[Iamcruzin]

28 minutes ago, bobbyandali said:

 

So... let's say I book and pay for Room 7429. Something happens to that room the last night of the cruise before mine, and it causes Room 7429 to go out of service for a week. Further, all other rooms in that category are sold out.

What happens to me, then? Would they upgrade me to a nicer room category? Or would they downgrade me to a lower category and refund the difference?  I think the "guarantee room" thing is getting too much weight. It could happen to anyone, reserved room or guarantee room. 

Personally I think any of the Royal up bidders who Royaled up from an inside to an ocean view should have been refunded and the OP should have received that room if indeed there room was put out of service or over sold.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Iamcruzin

[PelicanBill]

23 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

 

It’s literally the second line of the clause....deviate from....lodging...

 

6. CANCELLATION, DEVIATION OR SUBSTITUTION BY CARRIER:
a. Carrier may for any reason at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing, port of call, destination, lodging or any activity on or off the Vessel, or substitute another vessel or
Page 3 of 13

 

So here's where clause has a problem. I do a lot of contract work. That paragraph goes on to say 

Except as provided in 6(e) below, Carrier shall not be liable for any claim whatsoever by Passenger, including but not limited to loss, compensation or refund, by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, substitution or deviation.

 

Section 6(e) provides for compensation of the Carrier's choice, for cancellation or early termination.

 

Clearly they did not write this with the intent to allow downgrade substitution, as that is technically allowed with no compensation!  So what will happen is an arbitrator or judge is going to interpret as best as possible. If there is no evidence NCL did it on purpose, and they give reasonable compensation (which they did) then there really is no recourse.  Now you have to go to the advertised language (purchased category or HIGHER) and demand satisfaction, and hope a judge or arbitrator finds that NCL should offer better compensation. Only a slim chance of that in my estimate.

 

[TravelerThom]

I highly doubt that an arbitrator will make NCL pay compensation for the RCI mess up. 

[mr walker]

On 5/27/2019 at 4:12 PM, notladjr said:

 He said they would put us in an UPGRADED cabin, an oceanview one. He name the deck (below the water line - something I avoid) 

 

Would it have been ok if it was a balcony 

[Ergates The Ant]

Just a comment. Not all cruisers regard their cabin as just somewhere to sleep and change clothes.

For us, it is somewhere to relax, escape from the crowds, watch a film on the tv, or just sit in peace and enjoy the sea views.

A big reason for us always booking balcony cabins, to enjoy the view. We even leave the curtains open overnight, to wake with the daylight!

 We are unlikely to ever book an OV cabin, but the prospect of being downgraded to spending my holiday in a ‘cupboard’ with no window, would be my worst nightmare, and I would have been devastated.

Some cruise to enjoy all the ship has to offer, some cruise for a convenient home from home, with windows! We are all different and have different requirements which we expect the cruise line to deliver.

[alistairg]

Contracts such as RCI's are written to put people off taking them to court.

 

Under 6a RCI is perfectly entitled to cancel, change cruises, rooms etc. They have to be as it may simply be impossible to do otherwise eg ship breaks down.

 

However, they cannot exclude their liability for this despite what they say in their contract. They do it, they are liable. If you take them to court you will win IMO, but you need to actually take them to court. I have had business try to pull exactly this kind of clause on me before and refused to acknowledge it.

 

This is from the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977( Wikipedia entry)

 

Contractual Liability. s3, This applies against a party that deals on standard written terms or where the other party deals as a consumer. Any exclusion by that party for liability arising from a breach committed by that party under the same contract (s3(2)(a)) or performance under a contract which is substantially or totally different of that which is reasonably expected of him (s(3)(b)) shall be void except insofar as it satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.

 

Clauses such as this are void and unreasonable. Otherwise I could set up a business using this contract, sell people cruises, cancel them all and just keep the money, claiming that's what the contract says.

 

Now if the OP did take it to court the court may decide that the refund plus $300 OBC is ample compensation, this depends on the original cruise cost, comparison of the cabins etc.

 

 

[fscool]

As a cruiser do you have the option for a full refund?  I am not clear on this....

 

Two examples:

 

If I book a guarantee room and what happens to the OP happens to me, do you think I would have the option of a full refund?

 

If I book and get a room assignment (i.e. an actual cabin number) and there is an issue with the cabin and all that they can offer me is a lower category cabin, will I have the option of a full refund?

 

As long as I have the option of a refund, I guess I don't have as many gripes with what RCL is doing....

[Clarea]

Just now, fscool said:

As a cruiser do you have the option for a full refund?  I am not clear on this....

 

Two examples:

 

If I book a guarantee room and what happens to the OP happens to me, do you think I would have the option of a full refund?

 

If I book and get a room assignment (i.e. an actual cabin number) and there is an issue with the cabin and all that they can offer me is a lower category cabin, will I have the option of a full refund?

 

As long as I have the option of a refund, I guess I don't have as many gripes with what RCL is doing....

 

No full refunds (unless the cruise is cancelled by the cruise line) after final payment date.

[Biker19]

^ it will depend on circumstances and perhaps your/TA negotiating skills.

[Starry Eyes]

13 hours ago, bobbyandali said:

 

So... let's say I book and pay for Room 7429. Something happens to that room the last night of the cruise before mine, and it causes Room 7429 to go out of service for a week. Further, all other rooms in that category are sold out.

What happens to me, then? Would they upgrade me to a nicer room category? Or would they downgrade me to a lower category and refund the difference?  I think the "guarantee room" thing is getting too much weight. It could happen to anyone, reserved room or guarantee room. 

I agree, it could happen to somebody who reserve a specific cabin.

 

In your hypothetical scenario, hopefully there is an equivalent or better cabin available on the ship (last minute cancellation, perhaps) so they can relocate you to that cabin.  If not, perhaps a downgraded cabin is available (at least you’d still get to cruise if you wish).  Or perhaps there are no cabins at all.  Or perhaps you are the sort who will not accept a downgrade and will try to get a refund instead.

 

Thankfully these do appear to be very rare events.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Starry Eyes

[Starry Eyes]

7 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

 

No full refunds (unless the cruise is cancelled by the cruise line) after final payment date.

I do not think the OP of this thread asked for a cancellation and refund.  They seem to very much want to go on their cruise.

 

Do you know of another thread (RCI’s fault not TA or guest or ambiguous finger pointing) where the guest wanted cancellation with refund rather than forced downgrade but was denied?  

[sgmn]

On 5/27/2019 at 1:09 AM, Biker19 said:

This assumes someone is actually in some OV meant for the OP - what if that cabin is simply not available (for mechanical reasons)?

Also, OBC given in situations like this is typically refundable. 

 

Can't remember, did RC actually give a good reason. Would presume if there was a good reason why this cabin wasn't available they would of let the passenger and travel agent know

[Biker19]

Just now, sgmn said:

Can't remember, did RC actually give a good reason. Would presume if there was a good reason why this cabin wasn't available they would of let the passenger and travel agent know

The real reason may only be available from staff on board, especially if the cabin is out of service - shore side may not have that info.

[Starry Eyes]

35 minutes ago, sgmn said:

Can't remember, did RC actually give a good reason. Would presume if there was a good reason why this cabin wasn't available they would of let the passenger and travel agent know

As biker noted, shoreside might even have the info.  If they did know it might not be a pretty reason that the cruiseline would enjoy sharing.  And if shoreside did have the info, far as I can tell from what they posted on this thread, the OP did not seem to have been concerned about the reason for the overbooking. If they did not ask, they are unlikely to hear the reason even if shoreside does know.  

 

There are other, nonmechanical reasons for overbookings.  Over time, I recall reading a few “my cruise was mysteriously cancelled” sort of threads.  Hypothetically a computer glitch or somebody’s fat fingers might inadvertently cancel another passenger’s cruise, which would later be reinstated it when the issue was discovered;  the cruiseline  might then find itself in an overbooked situation.  I doubt they want to advertise such errors, though we all know occasional errors happen in all human endeavors.

[ReneeFLL]

On 5/22/2019 at 9:48 PM, jomf said:

We were told on the 11th April that our sailing ( Sept 2020- med cruise) had been cancelled as the ship had been chartered. 

We were offered three other sailings, all on the Independence, none very good.

we had no option other than cancelling. Our deposit was returned after many, many phone calls. We were told that they would offer no other compensation as we had turned down the three alternative sailings!

After finding out the ship was being moved from the Med ( via cruise critic) not chartered, I requested the same FCC as other passengers, I have been promised it, but after yet more phone calls, nothing has materialised! 

By the time we get it we will be many days behind others in being able to pick cabins, get a good deal etc.

we are not happy, to say the least.

This would have been our, and our travelling companions, first Royal Caribbean cruise!

 

I would book a cruise now and as long as you aren't near final payment just wait until they issue the FCC. I would definitely keep on them to send it. Also, I don't think I would book a non-refundable deposit in case they don't get the FCC to you soon enough.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 4:14 AM, Homosassa said:

 

That would certainly prompt scream of outrage by those who thinK price changes should only work in their favor.

 

 

I think they should work in the passengers favor for all the planning that is done, etc and then they have to turn around and do it all over again. Our time is also valuable. I also think they should pay all out of pocket airline fees. I know it's a business and they are there to make money, but would it really kill them to correct a wrong that they have created?

 

They should at the very least make the customer whole again. For example, I was on 2 of the cancelled Indy cruises next year. I had a really nice aft cabin for the b2b cruise where we didn't have to change cabins. The options they were offering wouldn't work for us so we chose a Brilliance b2b the same month as the original Indy. The aft cabins (sunset view) on the Brilliance are a different category (4B) than the Indy (5D). Now I'm having to pay more for an aft because the category is different. 😡  I think they should price match my aft balcony cabins regardless of the category. It's not like I'm going from a balcony to a jr suite!

 

We also have to change cabins because the same one isn't available on both cruises. I can understand this because someone has already booked it. I have been checking at least 3 times a day and sometimes up to 5 times to see if someone cancels so we can be in the same room. If I can't get the same room on both I'm going to call C & A to see if they will contact the other people to see if they will swap rooms if they don't have an attachment to that particular room. It would only be swapping rooms for the one next to it.

 

We will still enjoy our cruise, but it makes me consider other lines more. For 2021 we are looking exclusively at other companies. Don't bother to say it because I know it can happen on others, but Royal really seems more about the almighty dollar than at least making an effort to make their passengers whole again. They also seem to have the market for screwing their passengers more than others.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:11 AM, Host Clarea said:

 

It is VERY rare that we see a report of a guarantee booking that does not get the minimum category booked.

 

But how many people has this happened to who aren't on CC?

Edited May 29, 2019 by ReneeFLL