Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

[gooch47]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

I've been on those Royal Ships.  Even still at the dock, you'll feel the breeze.  Plus, the glass is blue.  Extremely easy to see if it's open or closed.  The claim the Step-Grandfather didn't know it was open isn't even slightly believable.  

Exactly.  But you did say the ship was moving.

[shealea]

I wonder if the grandfather had been drinking at all. 

 

[UFMOM]

4 hours ago, shealea said:

I wonder if the grandfather had been drinking at all. 

 

 

 

Supposedly no.

 

Mary Ann

[graphicguy]

12 minutes ago, UFMOM said:

 

 

Supposedly no.

 

Mary Ann

First thing I thought.  But, I don’t know if they had done any tests to confirm that.

[UFMOM]

They can probably tell through the ship’s system whether he put any drinks on his card. Although not 100 percent since he could have been drinking before he boarded or had a drink bought by someone else on the ship. They should look at the cards of the whole family. I would think he would have been blood tested for drugs and alcohol shortly after the accident, but I don’t know what the procedure is. 

 

Mary Ann

[shealea]

14 hours ago, UFMOM said:

They can probably tell through the ship’s system whether he put any drinks on his card. Although not 100 percent since he could have been drinking before he boarded or had a drink bought by someone else on the ship. They should look at the cards of the whole family. I would think he would have been blood tested for drugs and alcohol shortly after the accident, but I don’t know what the procedure is. 

 

Mary Ann

I was just wondering if alcohol had maybe played a part. I just can't imagine what this grandfather feels. He probably just made a horrible mistake, and now he has to live with that. I think that a lot of folks are excited on vacations and there is so much activity, and people just somehow lack judgement that they would probably normally use. I just don't know. 

[Starry Eyes]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:45 AM, shealea said:

I wonder if the grandfather had been drinking at all. 

 

If when sober he truly does not know if a window is open or closed and he truly does not know that it is unsafe to place a toddler on a railing, one would wonder if he has a neurological issue (dementia for example).  If impaired by substance or neurological issue, then by extension, one would have to wonder about the judgement of the parents who allowed the child to be in his arms without careful supervision.  Did they know?  I hope not.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Starry Eyes

[graphicguy]

30 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

If when sober he truly does not know if a window is open or closed and he truly does not know that it is unsafe to place a toddler on a railing, one would wonder if he has a neurological issue (dementia for example).  If impaired by substance or neurological issue, then by extension, one would have to wonder about the judgement of the parents who allowed the child to be in his arms without careful supervision.  Did they know?  I hope not.

Never thought about that.  Interesting hypothesis!

[Starry Eyes]

12 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Never thought about that.  Interesting hypothesis!

I just cannot imagine a sane, sober adult with all their marbles being unable to distinguish an open window from a closed one...or believing it safe to balance a toddler on a railing.  I can imagine an dementia patient losing the capacity to make such judgments, though I doubt the GF has that degree of such an illness because the authorities might be disinclined charge an incapacitated individual.  So I do not really embrace that hypothesis.

 

On the other hand, I can easily imagine some people making stupid excuses after an adverse event.

[Two Wheels Only]

29 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I can imagine an dementia patient losing the capacity to make such judgments, though I doubt the GF has that degree of such an illness because the authorities might be disinclined charge an incapacitated individual.  So I do not really embrace that hypothesis.

 

The grandfather is 51 years-old and works in Information Technology. Dementia won't be mentioned by anyone, not even by his attorney. 

[sanger727]

4 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

If when sober he truly does not know if a window is open or closed and he truly does not know that it is unsafe to place a toddler on a railing, one would wonder if he has a neurological issue (dementia for example).  If impaired by substance or neurological issue, then by extension, one would have to wonder about the judgement of the parents who allowed the child to be in his arms without careful supervision.  Did they know?  I hope not.

 

Eh, I suspect he knew perfectly well the window was open and chose that one because it had a better view since the windows that are closed are somewhat colored and probably scratched up from sliding. I suspect that this was simply a very very very bad judgement call. I've seen tourists do a whole lot of things on vacation that are stupidly dangerous (for themselves and others) that defy all common sense. I think a lot of people just put the thinking part of their brain aside on vacation.

[graphicguy]

I’m not a lawyer.  Based on the public information, I would pursue a diminished capacity defense.  That’s the only way I can see for the Step-Grandfather to skirt the obvious end to this.

 

Or, if there’s some sort of admission or conviction of guilt by Royal, which I don’t see happening.  He might be able to disavow any responsibility for the child’s death because of Royal’s negligence and not his negligence.  That would be a pretty far fetched outcome, though.

[StillPooh]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7706333/Grandfather-dropped-toddler-150ft-death-cruise-ship-arrives-court-Puerto-Rico.html

 

The grandfather had his first court appearance. 

[Quencups]

I'm thinking the CCTV footage must show some type of negligence....the Prosecutor seems extremely confident.....

[Two Wheels Only]

12 minutes ago, Quencups said:

I'm thinking the CCTV footage must show some type of negligence....the Prosecutor seems extremely confident.....

 

"Officers did however obtain critical video footage from the Freedom of the Seas on-board camera system which was described as 'definitive' by police sources." - article

 

 

 

[jaja]

Very good article...most info in awhile...and it sure does not sound "good" for the  grandfather.

All so very sad.  

[Starry Eyes]

42 minutes ago, StillPooh said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7706333/Grandfather-dropped-toddler-150ft-death-cruise-ship-arrives-court-Puerto-Rico.html

 

The grandfather had his first court appearance. 

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

I found it interesting that this UK site referred to the 51 year old defendant as “elderly.”  Not what I consider elderly.  Is that a UK vs US thing?  Or maybe a young reporter?

[Quencups]

20 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

"Officers did however obtain critical video footage from the Freedom of the Seas on-board camera system which was described as 'definitive' by police sources." - article

 

 

 

Ty

[Quencups]

4 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

I found it interesting that this UK site referred to the 51 year old defendant as “elderly.”  Not what I consider elderly.  Is that a UK vs US thing?  Or maybe a young reporter?

I agree...Im 56 and I don't think I am elderly...but maybe I am...lol

[eileeshb]

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

I found it interesting that this UK site referred to the 51 year old defendant as “elderly.”  Not what I consider elderly.  Is that a UK vs US thing?  Or maybe a young reporter?

it’s probably more down to his physical appearance and demeanour than specifically tied to his age. He looks elderly in the photos, my mother is into her 70s and looks a heck of a lot younger than him. As a general rule I’d say more Caucasian Americans look significantly older than their calendar age compared to their Northern Europeans counterparts. I say that as someone with lots of friends and relatives from the states and having traveled there a lot!  I and most of my cousins regularly get our ages underestimated by a decade or more. I was still getting asked for ID in my 30s (drinking age in Ireland is 18) it even happened stateside much to the amusement of my work colleagues. 

[StillPooh]

33 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

it’s probably more down to his physical appearance and demeanour than specifically tied to his age. He looks elderly in the photos, my mother is into her 70s and looks a heck of a lot younger than him. As a general rule I’d say more Caucasian Americans look significantly older than their calendar age compared to their Northern Europeans counterparts. I say that as someone with lots of friends and relatives from the states and having traveled there a lot!  I and most of my cousins regularly get our ages underestimated by a decade or more. I was still getting asked for ID in my 30s (drinking age in Ireland is 18) it even happened stateside much to the amusement of my work colleagues. 

I’m a 57 year old “Caucasian American”. My picture is current. Call me elderly, I’m gonna beat you with my cane! 🤣

[eileeshb]

7 minutes ago, StillPooh said:

I’m a 57 year old “Caucasian American”. My picture is current. Call me elderly, I’m gonna beat you with my cane! 🤣

🤣 I’ve a cousin in Australia who could be mistaken for your twin, she’s in her mid 40s. 
 

honestly the age thing is as much genetics as lifestyle. Both sides of mine tend to look younger, and most of the girls don’t bother with makeup much and spend as much time as possible out of the cities. 
 

i have friends with parents the same age as mine but look years older... but it’s more commonplace for folks here to have their age underestimated. 

[Laszlo]

On 11/14/2019 at 12:53 PM, Two Wheels Only said:

 

The grandfather is 51 years-old and works in Information Technology. Dementia won't be mentioned by anyone, not even by his attorney. 

 

Holy cow. he looks 65 at least

[brillohead]

Genetics and lifestyle are both significant.  

My birthmother is an alcoholic sun-tanned smoker who looks twenty years older than she is.

I'm a redheaded (sun-avoiding) non-drinker who has never even tried a cigarette, and I'm regularly judged to be in my mid-30s instead of my actual age of 50.  

[pe4all]

Very informative article.  Well-written.  It seems the video evidence they have will probably decide the case one way or another.