Travel insurance

[merlotwinedrinker]

Where does everyone buy their own travel insurance of you don't buy off the ship?

[crystalspin]

We have an annual Trekker policy through GeoBlue (which I found on InsureMyTrip website). They are the travel arm of BlueCrossBlueShield so I feel confident in their stability to be there if needed. That is for medical out of the country.

 

For cancellation/interruption protection, we pay for EVERYTHING with our Chase Reserve VISA. This will cover us for any reason we would need to cancel, including the financial insolvency of the trip organizer -- something the bigbox credit card washed their hands of. I am not saying "cancel for any reason" but for any reason we would need to cancel: major problems with our home, family health problems, even those of pets!

 

Someone is going to come on and say "Credit cards don't cover for pre-existing conditions!!!" We're lucky to not have them I guess, none that would dis-qualify us. We have read the T&Cs with a magnifying glass and feel quite comfortable with this combination protection. 

 

As far as "buying from ship", speaking from experience with HAL: first level is only cancellation protection; upper level is better cancellation protection with SOME medical. Good for a broken bone, maybe not enough for a heart attack!

 

There is a whole board for travel insurance, and this thread will probably get moved to there.

[Herfnerd]

http://Insuremytrip.com

http://Squaremouth.com

 

Maybe its just me but I tend to shy away from insurance offered by who I purchased the trip from.  They tend to be a little pricier and I'm just leery about the policy being skewed more towards their favor......

[sparks1093]

13 minutes ago, Herfnerd said:

http://Insuremytrip.com

http://Squaremouth.com

 

Maybe its just me but I tend to shy away from insurance offered by who I purchased the trip from.  They tend to be a little pricier and I'm just leery about the policy being skewed more towards their favor......

Took the words right off of my keyboard. I've always gotten more robust coverage for much less through the third party site.

[leaveitallbehind]

When a cruise line offers travel insurance, they are only acting as broker for the insurance company - they are not the insurers and are offering this as an optional service to their customers, and their pricing may reflect that. If a claim is filed, it would be directly with that insurer and the cruise line has no responsibility or liability with the coverage offered or any claim paid. 

 

I offer this information only to clarify as there have been other CC threads expressing frustration with a cruise line for delays or other issues with claims made through insurance offered by them.

 

To the question from the OP, typically we would also use a third party insurer as they provide better coverage than that offered by the cruise line IMO.  One such company is Travel Insured International.

Edited July 31, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Essiesmom]

As mentioned above, there is a board here for insurance and experts there can give you some advice:  https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/499-cruisetravel-insurance/

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, crystalspin said:

We have an annual Trekker policy through GeoBlue (which I found on InsureMyTrip website). They are the travel arm of BlueCrossBlueShield so I feel confident in their stability to be there if needed. That is for medical out of the country.

 

For cancellation/interruption protection, we pay for EVERYTHING with our Chase Reserve VISA. This will cover us for any reason we would need to cancel, including the financial insolvency of the trip organizer -- something the bigbox credit card washed their hands of. I am not saying "cancel for any reason" but for any reason we would need to cancel: major problems with our home, family health problems, even those of pets!

 

Someone is going to come on and say "Credit cards don't cover for pre-existing conditions!!!" We're lucky to not have them I guess, none that would dis-qualify us. We have read the T&Cs with a magnifying glass and feel quite comfortable with this combination protection. 

 

As far as "buying from ship", speaking from experience with HAL: first level is only cancellation protection; upper level is better cancellation protection with SOME medical. Good for a broken bone, maybe not enough for a heart attack!

 

There is a whole board for travel insurance, and this thread will probably get moved to there.

Beyond no PEC waivers (most but not all CCs), the biggest negative of included CC coverage is the limit on payouts (e.g., $5-10K). Even splitting the cruise charge across two CC accounts from the same bank (effectively doubling the limit) is not enough for "big ticket" cruises. 

As aforementioned, read the fine print.

[evandbob]

Another frequent traveler, another vote for an annual travel policy rather than individual ones. for each cruise or vacation

[GeezerCouple]

11 hours ago, merlotwinedrinker said:

Where does everyone buy their own travel insurance of you don't buy off the ship?

 

Do browse through and ask questions on the travel insurance section of CC:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/499-cruisetravel-insurance/

 

We used www.TripInsuranceStore.com - they are a broker and work with several vetted insurers.

 

CALL them; don't rely upon the online summaries.  The "fine print" can really matter.

 

They'll also help you understand what type of policy you need, by asking some question, especially useful for newbies (which we were a few years ago).

 

As for annual policies, double check whether the total annual coverage limits are enough for you, and whether there are any exclusions that might not work for you.

We'd love to have a policy like that, but there are at least two reasons why they won't work for us, alas.

 

GC

[lenquixote66]

I use recommendations from friends.

[SRF]

One advantage to the cruise line offered insurance is that it is not underwritten for age.

 

So when you start to get up in years, the difference in price can be HUGE.  When my parents cruised with us, the RCI insurance was a few hundred dollars.  3rd party insurance was several THOUSANDS of dollars.

 

My Mother had an issue, and the insurance company was VERY helful.

[leaveitallbehind]

50 minutes ago, SRF said:

One advantage to the cruise line offered insurance is that it is not underwritten for age.

I certainly can't challenge the experiences you had with your parents and their premiums, but you sure of that statement?  While I understand that different insurers would have different quotes for what typically are different levels and specifics of coverage, and when you request a quote from a third party carrier age is always required.  But the policies issued by the cruise lines are based on your specific booking, which includes your birth dates.  So when a policy is issued by a carrier affiliated with a cruise line your age clearly is known, and I would think your premium has that in consideration. 

 

In my experience, cruise line based policies typically are not as robust and with more limitations as those sourced separately, which would have a lot to do with their premiums as well.

Edited August 1, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Underwatr]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:28 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Beyond no PEC waivers (most but not all CCs),

This intrigues me. I'm familiar with Citibank credit card insurance (which is going away) and there's no exclusion on pre-existing conditions there as long as you're medically able to travel when the travel is purchased. Could you give an example of exclusionary language and the card issuer with that language?

 

We deal with the coverage $ limits by spreading the payments over several card accounts. Each account covers the portion of the travel charged to that card up to the account's limit.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, Underwatr said:

This intrigues me. I'm familiar with Citibank credit card insurance (which is going away) and there's no exclusion on pre-existing conditions there as long as you're medically able to travel when the travel is purchased. Could you give an example of exclusionary language and the card issuer with that language?

 

We deal with the coverage $ limits by spreading the payments over several card accounts. Each account covers the portion of the travel charged to that card up to the account's limit.

In this article (quick google search) https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-travel-insurance-exclusions.php

the reporter states: "Many of the credit card insurance policies we reviewed also won’t cover pre-existing medical conditions."

 

If I can find the time, I'll look up a correspondence I had with Chase (United Explorer Visa) about this. BTW, if the CC's insurance T&Cs don't specifically mention yea/nay on PEC limits and/or their waivers, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not addressed with some other catch all language (e.g., "other unusual/exceptional circumstances"). 

 

I'm pretty sure your comment about "able to travel" is not directly related to the PEC waiver issue. My understanding of any credit card travel is that "able to travel" (when that travel is purchased) only "activates/validates" your overall coverage. However, you are then still subject to the policy limitations and exclusions for claims reimbursement, which may include any PECs established during the "look back" period of x months prior to the credit card charge for the travel purchase.

 

A new or changed diagnosis or medication/treatment during that lookback is what insurers call a PEC. That you were able to travel when you bought the cruise (with your CC) doesn't mean you don't have a PEC. However, filing an eventual claim for trip interruption/cancellation that was due to that PEC (you missed returning to the ship at s port stop because you had to be taken to the hospital -related to a PEC) may be denied because your policy had no language that specifically said "PECs are waived." 

 

The other problem with CC trip insurance are the payout limits. Like you, we split the various cruise expenses over two different United Visas - effectively doubling the coverage limits. But, even then, that coverage would fall far short of the total cost of a longer cruise on premium/luxury lines including intercontinental biz class air.

 

Though we have great regular med insurance with international coverage for emergencies (though no med evac [another misunderstood item] and CCs with some trip interrupt/delay/cancel coverage (albeit limited payouts and no PEC waivers), we always get a comprehensive travel policy as our primary insurance.

 

 

[Underwatr]

Citi's exclusions include "Any event/incident (such as severe weather or terrorist incident) 
that occurred prior to the Trip being booked" and "The Covered Traveler(s) has been advised against traveling by a licensed medical practitioner prior to the Trip being booked" but nothing specific to medical conditions that haven't otherwise limited travel. A PEC that doesn't prevent travel at the time the trip is booked wouldn't (IMO) be considered a disqualifying 'event/incident.' 

 

My interest is mostly due to Citi's discontinuation of the travel insurance benefit, since I'm looking into available credit card insurance. Examples of exclusionary language would be helpful, since frankly I haven't seen it (all of the cards I've been relying on are Citi cards, so the language is similar although the limits vary).

 

When buying comprehensive travel insurance I've always paid close attention to pre-existing condition clauses, lookback periods and waivers so I'm familiar with the language in comprehensive policies.

 

Without pre-existing condition language in the terms of coverage you can't reasonably argue that they're not covered because they're not waived. I've never seen a policy that waives PECs without first defining how PECs are otherwise not covered.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Underwatr

[Underwatr]

Ok, Chase Sapphire (first one I looked at) specifically excludes recurrence of a preexisting condition in their bulletized benefits and exclusions list. I'll review the detailed language.

 

• Pre-Existing Condition – illness, disease or Accidental injury of you,your Traveling Companion, your Immediate Family Member or the Immediate Family Member of the Traveling Companion, for which medical advice, diagnosis, care or treatment was recommended or received within the 60-day period immediately prior to the purchase of a Covered Trip. The taking of prescription drugs or medication for a controlled condition throughout this 60-day period will not be considered to be a treatment of illness or disease.

Ok, looks like standard preexisting condition language, but a 60-day lookback might be easier to manage.

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 hours ago, Underwatr said:

This intrigues me. I'm familiar with Citibank credit card insurance (which is going away) and there's no exclusion on pre-existing conditions there as long as you're medically able to travel when the travel is purchased. Could you give an example of exclusionary language and the card issuer with that language?

As promised, I dug up some official info on this PEC question: Here's what Chase (in its complete 48 page T&Cs booklet) has to say about United Mileage Plus Explorer and Visa Signature cards (and it's safe to assume that it also applies to most of its similar cards):

 

What is NOT covered by Trip Cancellation (and Trip Interruption) insurance:

Trip Cancellation benefit "does not apply to a Covered Loss caused directly or indirectly from: ....a Pre-existing Condition."

Trip Interruption benefit "does not apply to a Covered Loss caused directly or indirectly from the Insured Person or Traveling Companion: ....traveling with a Pre-existing condition."

 

And my correspondence with Chase confirmed a 60 day lookback period for PECs from the date travel was purchased with their credit card.

 

Credit Card travel insurance benefits look great until one reads the T&C fine print. The limitations/exclusions make for a fairly narrow set of circumstances where benefits are forthcoming.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[Underwatr]

Same for their Sapphire card (look at the post immediately above yours). A pre-existing condition (e.g., 60 day lookback) is probably defined in the 48 page booklet as well.

 

You seem unwilling to agree that Citi didn't have the same fine print. It's a moot point, to be sure.

 

https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/~/media/CPP/Files/LegalDocs/BenefitsURLGuide/32901_-_Costco_Consumer_Benefits_Update_0718-3_No_Links_FINAL.ashx

 

WHAT’S NOT COVERED
Coverage does not apply to any claim under the following conditions:
- The Covered Traveler(s) decides to cancel, interrupt or extend their Trip for any reason not covered under “What’s Covered”.
- Any event/incident (such as severe weather or terrorist incident) that occurred prior to the Trip being booked.
- Death, serious injury or sickness of a non-Family Member that is not traveling on the Trip.
- The Covered Traveler(s) elects to shorten their Trip prior to the Trip Completion Date due to sickness or injury and the return was not at the direction of a licensed medical practitioner.

- The Covered Traveler(s) has been advised against traveling by a licensed medical practitioner prior to the Trip being booked.
- The Covered Traveler(s) did not get the required travel documentation, such as a passport or visa.
- The Covered Traveler(s) is unable to start or continue their Trip due to being involved in or under suspicion of any criminal act, illegal activities, disruptive/abusive behavior or is otherwise prevented from traveling by a government agency.
- The Covered Traveler(s) incurs additional expenses (not listed above) by electing to change their trip destination or a connecting city used to reach their trip destination.

 

IMO those are all reasonable exclusions, with no gotchas.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Underwatr

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, Underwatr said:

Same for their Sapphire card (look at the post immediately above yours). A pre-existing condition (e.g., 60 day lookback) is probably defined in the 48 page booklet as well.

 

You seem unwilling to agree that Citi didn't have the same fine print. It's a moot point, to be sure.

 

https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/~/media/CPP/Files/LegalDocs/BenefitsURLGuide/32901_-_Costco_Consumer_Benefits_Update_0718-3_No_Links_FINAL.ashx

 

WHAT’S NOT COVERED
Coverage does not apply to any claim under the following conditions:
- The Covered Traveler(s) decides to cancel, interrupt or extend their Trip for any reason not covered under “What’s Covered”.
- Any event/incident (such as severe weather or terrorist incident) that occurred prior to the Trip being booked.
- Death, serious injury or sickness of a non-Family Member that is not traveling on the Trip.
- The Covered Traveler(s) elects to shorten their Trip prior to the Trip Completion Date due to sickness or injury and the return was not at the direction of a licensed medical practitioner.

- The Covered Traveler(s) has been advised against traveling by a licensed medical practitioner prior to the Trip being booked.
- The Covered Traveler(s) did not get the required travel documentation, such as a passport or visa.
- The Covered Traveler(s) is unable to start or continue their Trip due to being involved in or under suspicion of any criminal act, illegal activities, disruptive/abusive behavior or is otherwise prevented from traveling by a government agency.
- The Covered Traveler(s) incurs additional expenses (not listed above) by electing to change their trip destination or a connecting city used to reach their trip destination.

 

IMO those are all reasonable exclusions, with no gotchas.

Since Citi is dumping the benefit, we're just having an academic discussion. That said, reread the section you quoted from Citi:

 

WHAT’S NOT COVERED
Coverage does not apply to any claim under the following conditions:
- The Covered Traveler(s) decides to cancel, interrupt or extend their Trip for any reason not covered under “What’s Covered”.

 

That's the kind of statement that fits my comment about "catch all" language. Thus, was there a specific statement under "what's covered" that stated "PEC's are waived"?

IMO (FWIW), if a PEC waiver was not specified in "what's covered,"  Citi could make the argument that coverage does not exist in that instance.

[Underwatr]

As you said, it's all academic at this point, so I'm happy to allow you to be wrong in your assumption. 🙂

 

Feel free to read the entire PDF and you'll see.

 

But this discussion has also promoted me to look at the fine print of other credit card travel insurance, and so far the others I've read clearly do exclude pre-existing conditions (with a clear definition of pre-existing including a defined lookback period). So it looks like I'll go back to comprehensive travel insurance for each trip if there isn't a clean lookback period.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Underwatr

[crystalspin]

Medically PECs are, in my opinion, WAY different than 60-day look backs. Most of us go two months and more without a change in health status. The T&C's state taking medications for a condition does not count as a change. If you have had an event or new diagnosis, wait a few weeks (up to two months) to book your travel with your Chase Sapphire RESERVE card. Solved!

[SRF]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:02 PM, leaveitallbehind said:

I certainly can't challenge the experiences you had with your parents and their premiums, but you sure of that statement?  While I understand that different insurers would have different quotes for what typically are different levels and specifics of coverage, and when you request a quote from a third party carrier age is always required.  But the policies issued by the cruise lines are based on your specific booking, which includes your birth dates.  So when a policy is issued by a carrier affiliated with a cruise line your age clearly is known, and I would think your premium has that in consideration. 

 

In my experience, cruise line based policies typically are not as robust and with more limitations as those sourced separately, which would have a lot to do with their premiums as well.

 

 

I know I compared all the plans offered by Trip Insurance Store and RCI.  And the price difference was staggering.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would have priced the 3rd party without covering the cruise cost.  They could have easily absorbed that loss.

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

 

I know I compared all the plans offered by Trip Insurance Store and RCI.  And the price difference was staggering.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would have priced the 3rd party without covering the cruise cost.  They could have easily absorbed that loss.

 

Interesting.  I wonder if booking it through the cruise lines has the benefit of individual coverage through group pricing, as there would likely be more people on a given itinerary booking through the cruise line and a single insurer for that cruise v those booking independently through any number of individual insurers issuing one for one policies?

Edited August 4, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[iancal]

We would never buy out of country medical from any cruise line, travel vendor, or travel agency.   We have always found more comprehensive coverage at a sometimes significantly lower cost directly from the insurers or from insurance agents that specialize in travel.  

 

Coverage is our first priority.  The cruise line offerings that we have looked at simply don’t make the cut for us.

Edited August 4, 2019 by iancal

[Luckiestmanonearth]

Cruise line offered insurance is like cruise line offered excursions in that they try to make you feel like if you don’t get their product , you’ll get left in the cold and you’re on your own