Slippery Slope for QE and the rest of the fleet.

[Jack E Dawson]

Without a doubt, the number one hot button issue on the Cunard Board is the Dress Code. Nothing seems to spark more discord. I’ve heard it said that change is really the only constant. Or as the Beatles sang, “There are places I’ll remember all my life though some have changed. Some forever but not for better.” The dress code on Cunard ships has been changing since 1840, at times more formal and at times less formal. Most of us seem to resist change because it either takes us out of our comfort zone or it causes us to lose something that is special to us. Companies that don’t change tend to go out of business. The fact is that probably half or more of all those passengers who sailed on the QM2 this year will not be sailing (for one reason or another) in 10 years. At the same time Millennials, Cunard’s next big customer base, don’t seem to be gravitating towards formal wear. My wife and I love the formal nights and dressier atmosphere of Cunard. Our kids, not so much. But what we do share, and are willing to pay for, is an appreciation for the great service, the excitement of sailing on the greatest ocean liner ever built and culture of civility.  Do I hope that it is my children that change rather than Cunard, ABSOLUTELY. 

Sometime during the mid ‘50’s, when I was a kid, my parents sailed on the Queen Mary. Unfortunately, I have only a few pictures that my Dad took on departure day, but look at the dress in these pictures, men in suits, ladies with hats and white gloves. They’d take one look at what we wear today and just shake their heads in sorrow at all that has been lost in dress and decorum.

 

Embarkation Day 1950’s

 

Embarkation Day 2018…SCANDALOUS

[Lakesregion]

Being in a part of the fashion business (Not attire thank goodness) I find one serious problem in marketing to the Millenniums. They are seeking experiences and once they experience something, they move on so Cunard like so many other businesses will find out the millenniums can be great "one time" passengers. They are not known for returning even if the experience was outstanding.

[Elephant1151]

Since Melbourne the MDR is busier than from Cape Town. Some passengers only on from Perth to Adelaide or Melbourne. 

 

Saw one guy last night waiting in line for the Welcome Aboard party without a jacket and he was seen soon after not at the party so the revised code is being enforced.

[Se1lad]

15 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

As I stated above I realize that I have lost the battle but if one thinks Cunard will maintain a level of decorum above the casual atmosphere of the rest of the ships afloat one is whistling past the grave yard. All one has to do is dig out past years posts on HAL, NCL, Princess, Celebrity etc. and even Cunard to see how passengers poo pooded the dropping of standards. A 2008 sailing on the QE2 shows that almost all nights at sea were formal and other evenings were jacket and tie, now 11 years later formal evenings have been reduced to two per week and no tie is needed and now on the QE no jackets. See how easy it is to keep dropping the standards."Never happen to my ships" and whoops look what happened. So do not fool yourself. Once the standards have begun to be lowered it is close to impossible to return to a better look. So enjoy what is left while it is left. And the few of us that "know" will still be dressed above the minimum allowed.

It doesn't necessary follow that making the dress code more casual automatically results in a drop in decorum.  The industry I work in required a suit and tie 10 years ago.  5 years ago this became a suit with no tie, and now jeans and a polo shirt suffice.  This hasn't impacted on mine or my colleagues ability to provide a professional service, or stopped us behaving correctly at work.

 

I will still most likely wear a jacket to dinner if this change is rolled out across the other two queens and applies globally.  I don't however have a problem with the change, and don't see how it impacts on the overall experience for those who prefer to dress more formally - The change doesn't prevent people from dressing more smartly if they choose to.  I don't see it as a drop in standards, just different standards.  For me it is far more important how someone behaves at dinner rather than how they dress.  

 

Cunard has the ability to maintain the decorum of the ships by not installing dodgems and zip wires, maintaining the standards of the lectures, and keeping the prices of the drinks comparatively high compared to other cruise lines.

 

Anyway, I hope to see some of you on board my future cruises on Cunard, and am sure I will enjoy your company whatever you choose to wear for dinner!

[carlmm]

1 hour ago, Se1lad said:

I don't however have a problem with the change, and don't see how it impacts on the overall experience for those who prefer to dress more formally - The change doesn't prevent people from dressing more smartly if they choose to. 

 

But for those who do care it does impact the experience. I do not constantly look in a mirror thinking how smartly I am dressed.

What sets the overall experience is the overall attire, the decor, the behaviour and dress of the stewards, the music and, yes, of course the attire or clothes of the people around.

Again, the overall experience is different in a room filled with guests in suits and dresses and a room full of casualy dressed people.

[Lakesregion]

4 hours ago, Se1lad said:

It doesn't necessary follow that making the dress code more casual automatically results in a drop in decorum.  The industry I work in required a suit and tie 10 years ago.  5 years ago this became a suit with no tie, and now jeans and a polo shirt suffice.  This hasn't impacted on mine or my colleagues ability to provide a professional service, or stopped us behaving correctly at work.

 

I will still most likely wear a jacket to dinner if this change is rolled out across the other two queens and applies globally.  I don't however have a problem with the change, and don't see how it impacts on the overall experience for those who prefer to dress more formally - The change doesn't prevent people from dressing more smartly if they choose to.  I don't see it as a drop in standards, just different standards.  For me it is far more important how someone behaves at dinner rather than how they dress.  

 

Cunard has the ability to maintain the decorum of the ships by not installing dodgems and zip wires, maintaining the standards of the lectures, and keeping the prices of the drinks comparatively high compared to other cruise lines.

 

Anyway, I hope to see some of you on board my future cruises on Cunard, and am sure I will enjoy your company whatever you choose to wear for dinner!

If you fail to see the difference then you fail to see the difference. And how people dress does affect how they act in groups. In business it is different because the product is what matters though I am always more attuned to the professional appearance of the Harry Winston staff VS some of the lesser places.

[Lakesregion]

2 hours ago, carlmm said:

 

But for those who do care it does impact the experience. I do not constantly look in a mirror thinking how smartly I am dressed.

What sets the overall experience is the overall attire, the decor, the behavior and dress of the stewards, the music and, yes, of course the attire or clothes of the people around.

Again, the overall experience is different in a room filled with guests in suits and dresses and a room full of casually dressed people.

And to quote a current adv. running here in the states "He gets it"

[eroller]

The formal attire on Cunard does set it apart.  You can see and feel it in the overall ambiance onboard.  It's truly the last holdout of formality on the high seas.  If you want casual, there are 30+ other cruise lines that offer it day and night, from luxury to mass-market.  Pretty much all of them.  Take the formality away from Cunard and it's simply not the same.  It's a reason many of us chose to sail on Cunard and not Princess, HAL, Carnival, Celebrity, Royal, MSC, NCL, etc etc etc.   

[Se1lad]

2 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

If you fail to see the difference then you fail to see the difference. And how people dress does affect how they act in groups. 

I suppose everyone has their own threshold for what's appropriate.  In my opinion ripped jeans or sportswear in the evening would not by appropriate for a fancy restaurant, but I would have no problem with someone wearing smart trousers, a proper shirt, but no jacket.  However if a host has requested more formal attire I will always follow the dress code required.

 

I've not really experienced a change in how people act in a group (in a restaurant setting at least) based on what they are wearing.  I've sat was pretty obnoxious people who were very dressed formally and also very nice people who were casually dressed and vice versa.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Se1lad

[ToadOfToadHall]

On 12/7/2019 at 3:16 AM, NSWP said:

It is actually Daryl Brohmann doing the modelling, retired Australian Rugby League Player, he has been modelling for Lowes stores for many a year, good quality 'made in China Clothing' just like your Primark.🤣

 

I've just looked him up - he's a big lad alright !

 

I once went into Primark to see what all the fuss was about - I felt quite unwell looking at all the Chinese tat 🤣

 

 

[ToadOfToadHall]

18 hours ago, eroller said:

Cunard better figure out what it wants to be and who it wants to appeal to.  I feel they don’t have a lot of clear direction right now.    

That is a very good point you make. They are trying to hedge their bets and not alienate anyone, but the trouble with that is they come across as being a bit clueless as to whom they want to appeal to.

[lissie]

Maybe its just because I'm a dancer and many of my friends are dancers. The reason we chose Cunard as first time cruisers was the size of the dance floor and the promise of music to dance to (which is not a disco beat).  We had a choice of Princess or Cunard for a similar itinerary and departure date and that's why we chose Cunard.   Have friends who have done Cunard and PRincess and  are dancers - they were adamant that we should choose Cunard.   In real life no one mentioned dress codes or lack thereof - it was all about the dancing, entertainment, food and booze prices. 

[NSWP]

17 hours ago, Elephant1151 said:

Since Melbourne the MDR is busier than from Cape Town. Some passengers only on from Perth to Adelaide or Melbourne. 

 

Saw one guy last night waiting in line for the Welcome Aboard party without a jacket and he was seen soon after not at the party so the revised code is being enforced.

An antipodean no doubt.   I bet he was an unhappy little Vegemite when he got knocked back at the welcome aboard party door.  But thems the rules.

[NSWP]

6 hours ago, ToadOfToadHall said:

 

I've just looked him up - he's a big lad alright !

 

I once went into Primark to see what all the fuss was about - I felt quite unwell looking at all the Chinese tat 🤣

 

 

I brought a belt in Primark in Southampton last year, my gut had expanded between cruises, Baltics/Scandinavia on Sapphire Princess, by jove.  4 quid from memory, but has fallen apart, I should have gone to Marks and Sparks to buy one for 20 quid.

Edited December 9, 2019 by NSWP

[NSWP]

On 12/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, Jack E Dawson said:

Without a doubt, the number one hot button issue on the Cunard Board is the Dress Code. Nothing seems to spark more discord. I’ve heard it said that change is really the only constant. Or as the Beatles sang, “There are places I’ll remember all my life though some have changed. Some forever but not for better.” The dress code on Cunard ships has been changing since 1840, at times more formal and at times less formal. Most of us seem to resist change because it either takes us out of our comfort zone or it causes us to lose something that is special to us. Companies that don’t change tend to go out of business. The fact is that probably half or more of all those passengers who sailed on the QM2 this year will not be sailing (for one reason or another) in 10 years. At the same time Millennials, Cunard’s next big customer base, don’t seem to be gravitating towards formal wear. My wife and I love the formal nights and dressier atmosphere of Cunard. Our kids, not so much. But what we do share, and are willing to pay for, is an appreciation for the great service, the excitement of sailing on the greatest ocean liner ever built and culture of civility.  Do I hope that it is my children that change rather than Cunard, ABSOLUTELY. 

Sometime during the mid ‘50’s, when I was a kid, my parents sailed on the Queen Mary. Unfortunately, I have only a few pictures that my Dad took on departure day, but look at the dress in these pictures, men in suits, ladies with hats and white gloves. They’d take one look at what we wear today and just shake their heads in sorrow at all that has been lost in dress and decorum.

 

Embarkation Day 1950’s

 

Embarkation Day 2018…SCANDALOUS

Very smart, who is the Chav behind you? Not dressed like a Cunarder should, hoody, baseball cap.

 

[Jack E Dawson]

48 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Very smart, who is the Chav behind you? Not dressed like a Cunarder should, hoody, baseball cap.

 

Interesting you should notice NSWP. I don't remember his name but he was the first passenger we met on he QM2. He was an older fellow (like me) and a widower. His son (who took the picture) had treated him to this crossing, and you are right NSWP, he had never been on a Cunard ship before. But he was a real gentleman and a class act. I'm pretty sure he didn't wear the cap to the MDR but I'm positive that his tablemates thoroughly enjoyed his company. I remember how happy and proud his son was to be taking this voyage with his dad. I didn't realize he was in the background of the picture and actually hadn't even thought about him since that voyage. Thinking about it, I guess being a real Cunarder is more than the clothes. 

Thanks NSWP for bringing back some GREAT memories.

Jack

[Docker123]

On 12/8/2019 at 3:26 PM, Elephant1151 said:

Since Melbourne the MDR is busier than from Cape Town. Some passengers only on from Perth to Adelaide or Melbourne. 

 

Saw one guy last night waiting in line for the Welcome Aboard party without a jacket and he was seen soon after not at the party so the revised code is being enforced.

The first few nights have been a bit more dressed down. Interestingly, we who boarded in Fremantle did not get any advanced warning. I have emailed a copy of the letter to my TA, as they had not been advised by Cunard, either.

 

Formal night saw fewer dinner suits, but mostly other suits. I was the only one at our table wearing one.
 

Some fellows were reminded that they should go to their staterooms and return wearing ties.

[drkitkat123]

Eagerly awaiting our first QE cruise in January.  Love dressing up but wearing a tie is what bugs me most. Seriously, how anachronistic is it wearing a germ infested slip of material around one's neck, especially in a warm climate?

[luckymal]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:37 PM, Bell Boy said:

As to be expected, with effect from December 6th for the QE  ( en route ) down under under. Smart Attire evening dress code  ( all categories) changed to No Jacket required 'for every evening'.

Doesn't come as a surprise for me , this is exactly the way as 'P&O Australia' started . 

 

Evening Britannia ( QE)  dining times changed  Early 5.45pm -late 8.pm. 

 

                                           😕 

Í

This is not a surprise to me, Cunard are not the the shipping line the management  think they are, they appear to be cutting corners at anything they can, who is to blame,

Carnival? I have said before, I think  they only  purchased Cunard for the name of CUNARD, fair enough to say if they had not purchased Cunard there would be no Cunard now, to spend all that money to buy a great ship QE2, but a very old ship. My wife and I have cruised many times with Cunard and have seen the decline of the fleet. We think the only thing not to have changed are the wonderful crew members.

I have written to Cunard to complain, and credit to them, they have answered my e-mails saying they are spending millions of  pounds/dollars to improve things, I have yet to see  any improvement.🍷🥃

[exlondoner]

On 12/7/2019 at 6:50 PM, Lakesregion said:

As I stated above I realize that I have lost the battle but if one thinks Cunard will maintain a level of decorum above the casual atmosphere of the rest of the ships afloat one is whistling past the grave yard. All one has to do is dig out past years posts on HAL, NCL, Princess, Celebrity etc. and even Cunard to see how passengers poo pooded the dropping of standards. A 2008 sailing on the QE2 shows that almost all nights at sea were formal and other evenings were jacket and tie, now 11 years later formal evenings have been reduced to two per week and no tie is needed and now on the QE no jackets. See how easy it is to keep dropping the standards."Never happen to my ships" and whoops look what happened. So do not fool yourself. Once the standards have begun to be lowered it is close to impossible to return to a better look. So enjoy what is left while it is left. And the few of us that "know" will still be dressed above the minimum allowed.

 

In 2008, my last QE2 voyage, to Iceland and Norway lasted fourteen days. According to the Daily Programme, there were four formal nights in that time. That seems to me to work out at two per week just as now. On the other hand, this year we went on QM2 and had four formal nights in nine days. I'm not sure what any of this says about standards, and I should be very wary about drawing too close a correlation between standards of dress and standards of behaviour, though failing to adhere to the dress code is obviously ungracious behaviour.

[exlondoner]

3 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

Eagerly awaiting our first QE cruise in January.  Love dressing up but wearing a tie is what bugs me most. Seriously, how anachronistic is it wearing a germ infested slip of material around one's neck, especially in a warm climate?

 

Surely it I should easily within the wearer's power to prevent germ infestation. And it won't necessarily be that warm in the restaurants.

[navybankerteacher]

13 hours ago, NSWP said:

Very smart, who is the Chav behind you? Not dressed like a Cunarder should, hoody, baseball cap.

 

The fact that the visor faces forward, rather than back, might be seen as a gesture of compliance.

[PORT ROYAL]

35 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

Surely it I should easily within the wearer's power to prevent germ infestation. And it won't necessarily be that warm in the restaurants.

 

Within the dress code related post there is a mention of an "infestation" in the Dining Room.  Déjà vu pour moi? 😉

 

[Victoria2]

13 hours ago, NSWP said:

Very smart, who is the Chav behind you? Not dressed like a Cunarder should, hoody, baseball cap.

 

That hoodie looks like a waterproof to me and as Cunard sell logo'd baseball caps onboard, it must be considered appropriate outdoor day wear. 

[drkitkat123]

7 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Surely it I should easily within the wearer's power to prevent germ infestation. And it won't necessarily be that warm in the restaurants.

but how many really do dry-clean their ties regularly? And really what does a piece of cloth around ones neck add to decorum and dress-code?