Does the ships crew really get !00% of the gratuities?

[MicCanberra]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

My suggestion: 

The cruise line should offer two fares when booking a cruise:

- those who like to tip can book a cruise where the auto-gratuities are paid on board the ship.  The current system except the auto-gratuities cannot be removed except for documented service issues.

- those who do not want to tip are offered a increased fare exactly equal to the first fare plus the auto-gratuities.

 

That should make everyone happy.  Those who like the current system can book under that.  Those who think the cruise lines should incorporate the auto-gratuities into the fare can book under the second system. 

While I think it a great idea, I cannot see how anyone can get documented proof for bad service, who is ever going to write that up.

[mayleeman]

13 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

While I think it a great idea, I cannot see how anyone can get documented proof for bad service, who is ever going to write that up.

I agree. I think it would likely just result in negative evals of innocent crew by the skinflints.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

While I think it a great idea, I cannot see how anyone can get documented proof for bad service, who is ever going to write that up.

 

It also doesn't help that most people tip for bad service anyway 😜. It makes it hard to prove overall bad service. Maybe you would have to look at the security cameras to back it up but then that would mean hours of extra work that I doubt the cruise lines want to pay for. 

 

I think the answer is pretty simple. Just lay it out in big print next to the cruise fare that auto gratuity is part of the cost of cruise. If you hide it in the small print or spring it on passengers after boarding to those who never experienced auto gratuity it makes it seem like a dodgy hidden fee the cruise lines are trying to scam you with. If the cruise lines are opened and honest about it people will respect it more.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

While I think it a great idea, I cannot see how anyone can get documented proof for bad service, who is ever going to write that up.

The idea is to make it difficult to book the cheaper fare with the plan to remove the gratuities on board.   Instead of just going to guest services and asking for them to be removed, there should be a record of the substandard performance.  Did they try to correct the problem, etc.

2 hours ago, mayleeman said:

I agree. I think it would likely just result in negative evals of innocent crew by the skinflints.

I think it would reduce negative evaluations if the passenger had to have documented the poor service instead of requesting them to be removed on the last night for 'poor service'.  Make it difficult to remove.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

It also doesn't help that most people tip for bad service anyway 😜. It makes it hard to prove overall bad service. Maybe you would have to look at the security cameras to back it up but then that would mean hours of extra work that I doubt the cruise lines want to pay for. 

 

I think the answer is pretty simple. Just lay it out in big print next to the cruise fare that auto gratuity is part of the cost of cruise. If you hide it in the small print or spring it on passengers after boarding to those who never experienced auto gratuity it makes it seem like a dodgy hidden fee the cruise lines are trying to scam you with. If the cruise lines are opened and honest about it people will respect it more.

Giving those booking a cruise these two options does not hide the auto-gratuity.  It puts it out front and centered.

[ilikeanswers]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Giving those booking a cruise these two options does not hide the auto-gratuity.  It puts it out front and centered.

 

Yes but I am saying that you don't need that extra step of the two pricing systems. You world be surprised how positively people react to transparent pricing🤗. 

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Yes but I am saying that you don't need that extra step of the two pricing systems. You world be surprised how positively people react to transparent pricing🤗. 

What could be more transparent than the two step pricing.  

Gives people a choice.

The only ones who wouldn't like it are the ones who don't want to pay gratuties.  

Either way, they still pay them.  

[NLH Arizona]

26 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

It also doesn't help that most people tip for bad service anyway 😜.

I think you are making a big generaliation there.

[ilikeanswers]

9 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

What could be more transparent than the two step pricing.  

Gives people a choice.

The only ones who wouldn't like it are the ones who don't want to pay gratuties.  

Either way, they still pay them.  

 

I guess I am thinking about the back end how a two pricing system will probably be more complicated to organise so the cruise lines realistically will never impose a system that costs more to run. 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, ilikeanswers said:

 

I guess I am thinking about the back end how a two pricing system will probably be more complicated to organise so the cruise lines realistically will never impose a system that costs more to run. 

Understand.  There are those who say they don't like to pay gratuities and the cruise line should just incorporate them in the fare.  I believe they think that if the gratuities are incorporated in the fare, then the cruise line, not themselves, will pay them.  IOW, they want the cruise lines to pay the gratuities without increasing the fare.  They should be satisfied if all they want is for the cruise line to incorporate the gratuities in the fare.

[ilikeanswers]

4 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I think you are making a big generaliation there.

 

A lot of studies have be done on the tipping habits of Americans and they all corroborate that about 80% will tip a standard 20% even if the service is terrible, the reason usually given being the fear of social stigma. 

 

[ilikeanswers]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Understand.  There are those who say they don't like to pay gratuities and the cruise line should just incorporate them in the fare.  I believe they think that if the gratuities are incorporated in the fare, then the cruise line, not themselves, will pay them.  IOW, they want the cruise lines to pay the gratuities without increasing the fare.  They should be satisfied if all they want is for the cruise line to incorporate the gratuities in the fare.

 

I have always thought part of the problem is people don't value cruises enough. It is seen as the lowest denominator of travel and therefore the expectation is the lowest possible price. The whole race to the bottom of pricing by cruise lines only helps to devalue the valuation of cruising in people's minds. If only there was a way to get people to see cruising as something worth paying a little more for🤔. 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, ilikeanswers said:

 

I have always thought part of the problem is people don't value cruises enough. It is seen as the lowest denominator of travel and therefore the expectation is the lowest possible price. The whole race to the bottom of pricing by cruise lines only helps to devalue the valuation of cruising in people's minds. If only there was a way to get people to see cruising as something worth paying a little more for🤔. 

Too many are thinking they're already paying 'a little more', a 'little too much'.

You've been on cruise critic a long time.  How many threads do you see on how to save money on a cruise, when is the cheapest time to book, etc.?  It's one of the most popular subjects on this website.

[ilikeanswers]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Too many are thinking they're already paying 'a little more', a 'little too much'.

You've been on cruise critic a long time.  How many threads do you see on how to save money on a cruise, when is the cheapest time to book, etc.?  It's one of the most popular subjects on this website.

 

That was my point. It is the intangible value that seems to be missing in people's minds from cruising that makes customers think it should be worth less than the stated price. People will pay the 150% inflated price of a designer handbag because they feel it is worth it but cruising people seem see as a bargain basement travel and therefore it makes it hard to increase price even it is just adding gratuities. 

[davekathy]

This thread is like a train wreck. I can't stop looking. 

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The idea is to make it difficult to book the cheaper fare with the plan to remove the gratuities on board.   Instead of just going to guest services and asking for them to be removed, there should be a record of the substandard performance.  Did they try to correct the problem, etc.

I think it would reduce negative evaluations if the passenger had to have documented the poor service instead of requesting them to be removed on the last night for 'poor service'.  Make it difficult to remove.

perhaps everyone should wear personal body cams with a stop watch, showing how they waited for a while before being served.

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

What could be more transparent than the two step pricing.  

Gives people a choice.

The only ones who wouldn't like it are the ones who don't want to pay gratuties.  

Either way, they still pay them.  

But how does that give a choice to those that don't want to pay them.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, davekathy said:

This thread is like a train wreck. I can't stop looking. 

Have some popcorn to help.

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

But how does that give a choice to those that don't want to pay them.

Those who say they wish the cruise lines would incorporate the gratuities in the fare will get their wish.  They won't have to pay gratuities.  They get the higher fare they've always said they prefer.  So, What's the Issue?

[SRF]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:31 PM, ed01106 said:

That is the reason for the suspicion. 

 

Based on how much the cruise lines charge in gratuities for drinks--  bar tenders should be making a hundred dollars an hour or more *IF* they were getting 100% of the gratuities.  The fact that they make such low pay is what raises the suspicion that the cruise line is taking a cut or using the money for other purposes.  

 

Who said that only the bartenders are part of the tipping pool from bar tips?  There behind the scenes people for the bars also.

[ed01106]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Who said that only the bartenders are part of the tipping pool from bar tips?  There behind the scenes people for the bars also.

That is where we move into what I consider abusing the tip system.  In the USA it would be illegal to pay the dishwasher or busboy a sub-minimum wage and have that wage supplemented with the tip pool.  If that is occurring with the bar tips than the cruise line is IMHO is not using “American style “ tipping but a system that is even more exploitive of workers and customers than the “American system “ in which only those who directly serve customers are in the tipping system.  

[ldubs]

51 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

That is where we move into what I consider abusing the tip system.  In the USA it would be illegal to pay the dishwasher or busboy a sub-minimum wage and have that wage supplemented with the tip pool.  If that is occurring with the bar tips than the cruise line is IMHO is not using “American style “ tipping but a system that is even more exploitive of workers and customers than the “American system “ in which only those who directly serve customers are in the tipping system.  

 

"In the USA it would be illegal to pay the dishwasher or busboy a sub-minimum wage and have that wage supplemented with the tip pool"

"the “American system “ in which only those who directly serve customers are in the tipping system." 

 

Nope -- there are tip-share programs.   Local law applies.  

 

 

 

[ed01106]

Just now, ldubs said:

 

"In the USA it would be illegal to pay the dishwasher or busboy a sub-minimum wage and have that wage supplemented with the tip pool"

"the “American system “ in which only those who directly serve customers are in the tipping system." 

 

Nope -- there are tip-share programs.   Local law applies.  

 

 

 

Only way you can have a shared tip program in the USA is if the employer pays ALL the employees at least federal non-tipped min wage.  So if the waiter and bus boy are both getting at least the nontipped minimum wage then the waiter can be required to share their tips.  But if the waiter is getting the tipped minimum wage they can not be required to share their tips.

[ldubs]

45 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Only way you can have a shared tip program in the USA is if the employer pays ALL the employees at least federal non-tipped min wage.  So if the waiter and bus boy are both getting at least the nontipped minimum wage then the waiter can be required to share their tips.  But if the waiter is getting the tipped minimum wage they can not be required to share their tips.

 

I believe what you are describing is "back of house" staff which generally would not include bussers or servers.  BTW, everyone, whether a tipped position or not, must receive at least the minimum wage.  

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ed01106 said:

Only way you can have a shared tip program in the USA is if the employer pays ALL the employees at least federal non-tipped min wage.  So if the waiter and bus boy are both getting at least the nontipped minimum wage then the waiter can be required to share their tips.  But if the waiter is getting the tipped minimum wage they can not be required to share their tips.

This was only clarified in 2018, and does say that to include "back of house" staff, the employer cannot take a "tip credit", and must pay the wait staff full minimum wage.  However, bus boys, and hostesses, are "front of house" and are can be included in a tip pool, if the employer pays them all the minimum tipped wage.  This is further convoluted by the wording that those employees who "customarily and regularly" receive tips, could be interpreted in many different ways.  

 

However, whether or not the cruise lines are following the "US system", they are not required to follow US law in this matter, and besides, collective bargaining agreements will typically trump other wage concerns.  When NCL started their US flag operation in Hawaii, the deck and engine crew were unionized, and their collective bargaining agreement set their overtime rate at $.35/hour less than their straight time rate.  This was allowed under US law, because the union had the consent of the members to bargain for them.  Even the foreign crew are typically represented by a loose "union" in their home countries, and this "union" negotiates with the cruise lines for the terms of the crew contract.