Remember tragic accident with toddler? New revelations...

[aubreyc1988]

12 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

In your case, your memory got more accurate over time. In Anello's case, his memory was accurate initially (police report) and became less accurate over time (after family hired the attorney). In addition, the attorney has seen the undoctored surveillance video but continues to push a false narrative.

 

I would also assume that RCI has a lot more video footage they have not released to the public out of respect for the family. 

[fshagan]

On 1/19/2020 at 10:33 PM, podgeandrodge said:

I don't accept the analogy of the drunk driver.  As someone else put it elsewhere, a drunk driving accident is no innocent mistake, it happens when a driver makes a deliberate choice to get behind the wheel after having too much to drink, knowing full well that others will be exposed to danger. 

Might be the same legal theory, but do not agree with you that it is the same exact situation.

 

I see it as exactly the same. The only difference is our prejudice against drunk drivers and our sympathy for grandfathers.  Both are misplaced when talking about equal treatment under the law. Only the facts matter.

 

It doesn't matter how sorry they are, or how many years they will "have to live with this". They can be sorry or "live with this" in prison just as they can at home.

 

Both actions are incredibly stupid. Holding a child outside a window with a multi-story drop is just as stupid as getting behind the wheel when you are impaired. Both actions show a reckless disregard for the safety of others, and, when someone dies because of it, it must be punished.

 

 

[fshagan]

On 1/20/2020 at 6:19 AM, rhblake said:

If a parent is careless and leaves a child in a hot car and the child dies that parent will normally be convicted and serve time in jail. I think that it is only equitable that the grandfather should serve jail time for his careless actions.

 

Your analogy is pretty good, but the parent who leaves his child in the car is negligent. They often get a suspended sentence because the negligence can be explained away by other circumstances (whether the parent usually has the child, the situation the parent was in right before exiting the car, etc.)

 

Recklessly endangering the child is much worse. You are picking up a baby and holding it over a multi-story fall. You have taken action directly to endanger them.

[Starry Eyes]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:40 AM, FitchburgWIFamily said:

I agree with a lot of what has been said here.   I only post because I think there is a little more certainty among others that the grandfather is "lying" and "changing his story" for reasons of greed.   If you know anyone who has been through a really tragic event (and we can all agree this qualifies) ask them what they remember and how those memories are processed.  There experience may be similar to mine.

 

I was in a terrible car accident once.  I was questioned by the police.  Some of the questions they asked were about braking before the accident, were the brakes applied, did the brakes sequel, stuff like that.   I answered that I was sure the brakes were applied but they did not sequel...because I had no memory of that sound at that time.   About 3 months later, I was sitting in a restaurant, and a car outside jammed on its brakes, and as soon as I hear that squeal I had a flash back to my own accident and I all of a sudden could vividly recall the sound of the brakes squealing and even the smell of them.   In the years following that accident, more and more little memories surfaced.   Memories of things that if you asked me if they had occurred at the time I would have denied.

 

So, anecdotally,  I can see how someone's story would change and how someone would be open to the power of suggestion after a traumatic and tragic event.   I believe he may not remember what really happened and his brain is protecting him right now.   In the interim, he may be making himself believe a story that allows him to continue to function.

Oh, yes memory is a very interesting issue.  Many people like to think their memories are unchanged, rather like a videotape.  But really when we pull those memories, run them and store them again, our brains often change the memory.  Sometimes we are able to pull extra details...maybe correctly...or maybe the mind’s embellishments...or maybe a bit of both.  Even if the mind embellished the memory  bit at the sound of squealing breaks, that is totally normal; it happens.  In some cases, the ability to alter traumatic memory can be a blessing, especially with the aid of a gifted therapist, as the edges reactions can potentially be gradually taken off those memories.  More ordinary memories can be altered (for better or worse) by one’s attitude as one recalls them over the years. 

 

Under pressure from guilt, possible prosecution, family pressure, etc, perhaps each time this grandfather replays the memory, he has altered it, such that it is less and less like the surveillance video. Or perhaps he remembers relatively accurately and is lying.  We cannot get inside his head.  We can see the video.  He can see the video.  The parents can see the video.  The video is not re-writing itself.

[Two Wheels Only]

45 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

We cannot get inside his head.  We can see the video.  He can see the video.  The parents can see the video.  The video is not re-writing itself.

 

I find it nearly impossible to believe that nobody has seen the video of Anello extending the child out of the window and not told the parents or Anello what happened. At this point, all parties involved know what happened.

 

Attempting to fool the public who haven't seen the video or attempting to gain sympathy for the "poor, elderly, colorblind..." grandpa is the objective at this point in order to gain financially.

 

 

[ladybugpug]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:51 PM, atanac said:

Reading through this entire post the general consensus is the Grandpa was negligent and the fault

lies squarely with him. If this actually winds up in court with a seated jury the defense would be wise

to read every ones comments here on Cruise Critic for a preview as to what the outcome from a jury

might be.

Anyone else see it that way?

I have seen many many people on other sites who blame the cruise line 100%. I can easily see this case going either away. 

[coffeebean]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:40 AM, FitchburgWIFamily said:

...........  I believe he may not remember what really happened and his brain is protecting him right now.   In the interim, he may be making himself believe a story that allows him to continue to function.

Honestly, Anello doesn't have to remember anything. The videos will refresh his memory. The man held his grand daughter near a window. That is very easy to see.

 

Anyone with any common sense at all would have verified if the window was open or closed especially being up on the 11th deck of a cruise ship.

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, ladybugpug said:

I have seen many many people on other sites who blame the cruise line 100%. I can easily see this case going either away. 

Just wondering......have those many many people who blame RCI for this tragic event ever been on a cruise ship?

[atanac]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:37 AM, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I find it nearly impossible to believe that nobody has seen the video of Anello extending the child out of the window and not told the parents or Anello what happened. At this point, all parties involved know what happened.

 

Attempting to fool the public who haven't seen the video or attempting to gain sympathy for the "poor, elderly, colorblind..." grandpa is the objective at this point in order to gain financially.

 

 

Is there much doubt that a seated jury would not be fooled either.

[cruisinagain1960]

Let's also not forget that grandpa also tried to blame all of this on the fact that he's colorblind - he said in an interview, "he was told" that because he's color-blind, that's the reason he didn't see the window was open - which, of course, is totally disputed by the video because, well, you can't lean out of a closed window (for obvious reasons).

 

Mom is an attorney, I think she knew exactly what would happen if this lawsuit was pursued.  If she gave a fig about grandpa, she would have highly encouraged him to take the deal that PR offered of no jail time for a guilty plea.  Obviously, she saw the $$ signs and opted to pursue the lawsuit.

 

The family has also played the "child's play area" line ad nauseum.  However, in the video, it looks to me like there is a bar right behind the bank of windows that grandpa held that child out.  I highly doubt a bar area would be described as a child's play area.

 

I never thought he should get jail time, he's in his own special hell at this point, but maybe an example needs to be made that when you lie to try to extort money from a corporation, there are consequences.

[ladybugpug]

4 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Just wondering......have those many many people who blame RCI for this tragic event ever been on a cruise ship?

Wouldn't have a clue.

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, cruisinagain1960 said:

However, in the video, it looks to me like there is a bar right behind the bank of windows that grandpa held that child out. 

 

 

Yes, it is a bar...(you can also see the windows).

[ray98]

Many seem to forget who the primary victim is....the child.  It is not the parents nor the grandfather.  First and foremost the state has a duty to speak for her no matter how convoluted the family and their lawyers make it.

 

Everything this man did from the time she exited that window was criminal.

[Mike_DeA]

19 hours ago, atanac said:

Is there much doubt that a seated jury would not be fooled either.

 

Does PR have a jury system?  It may be just a judge, not sure.  A jury can be emotional and irrational a judge typically not.

[jaja]

Does anyone know when the trial is?

[JoeTec]

ABC in New York just reported that the grandfather plead guilty!!!! Sorry I can't figure out how to link the story 

[Drinal01]

Here is the link...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grandfather-toddler-who-died-falling-cruise-ship-plead-guilty-her-n1142981?cid=par-aff-hubbard-wnyt_20200226

[rocklinmom]

Yes I read that on MSN this morning. Sounds like he agreed to plead negligent manslaughter or something like that and gets probation. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by rocklinmom

[phillyguy31]

But they are still continuing with the suit against RCL!

[jaja]

18 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

But they are still continuing with the suit against RCL!

Of course they are !!  They are playing every angle...grandfather pleads and gets probation in home state ...no jail. And family still gets to pursue suit to save face and get a settlement. 

[Laszlo]

13 hours ago, Drinal01 said:

Here is the link...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grandfather-toddler-who-died-falling-cruise-ship-plead-guilty-her-n1142981?cid=par-aff-hubbard-wnyt_20200226

No jail time huh, they should have made it conditional if he gets no jail time they drop the lawsuit

Edited February 26, 2020 by Laszlo

[HuliHuli]

16 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

No jail time huh, they should have made it conditional if he gets no jail time they drop the lawsuit

I get your logic and sentiment, but one is a criminal action and the other a civil action.  The two don't intersect legally.

[Laszlo]

2 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

I get your logic and sentiment, but one is a criminal action and the other a civil action.  The two don't intersect legally.

Your right, I don't get the no jail time. Then again a friend of mine was run over by a drunk driver while she was jogging on a side walk, she was killed and the guy got 18 months

Edited February 26, 2020 by Laszlo

[Mike_DeA]

So he continues to spout lies about thinking the window was closed, even though we've all seen the video where he first goes over and leans out the exact same window himself, then brings the little girl over.  He should be in jail.

[PelicanBill]

Well, now considering a civil case, the purpose will be to find the fault for Chloe's death. I believe the lawyers on each case will fix blame on each other (RCCL at fault vs. Grandfather at fault.)  I was on a jury for a civil liabilities case and we were charged with determine which parties were at fault, and then in what %.  Then to determine damages which are assigned based on the % finding.  For one of parties it was a case of a crime committed (with conviction) and the other party it was negligence.. very similar case here.  We had to apply the standard of negligence to a series of actions (or inactions) of one party to decide their level of responsibility.  The standard of negligence is basically "what would the average prudent person have done or not done?"

Assuming the federal court works the same way, I think we could see a jury assigned a high % of liabilty to the grandfather and a low % to RCCL.  Or  0% to RCCL.  A low % is my guess.  The defense will go after the jury's emotions... "SOMEBODY'S got to pay for this terrible tragedy."  Realizing the Grandfather isn't going to come up with a few million, they'll assign some % to RCCL so there is SOME kind of payout to the family for their loss.  People are weird about deaths that are viewed by many as "accidents."