Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[alexkrn46]

My husband brought up a good point to me. Is there an insurance claim for accidental death for this child? My thought the grandfather was offered a plea deal if he confessed but that would probably void any accidental death claim. 

 

Personally if if this was an accident I would try to reduce any media attention which would bring pain to the parents, with a plea it would be quietly over. 

 

also I do not know I could forgive my parent for such a reckless act in such a short period of time.Seems like a very odd situation.

[trouble1964]

I think the family has misplaced their grief. It's easier for them to place their anger and pain towards a lawsuit than it is to have to turn that energy into just grieving.  The lawsuit will not make their loss any less tragic. 

 

Win or lose (and I would have to clear the cruise line, if I were the judge), they are going to grieve worse when this is over and they have nothing more to focus on. 

 

I was on this ship in November and I could not help but think of that baby as we boarded....wondering where she fell.....were the people working there that day on duty and witnesses....were those people who did witness it given any sort of counseling.....and then walking by the windows, wondering which one it was. That was always on my mind when I was in the area---so much so, that I avoided it as much as possible. 

[Two Wheels Only]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:26 PM, Another_Critic said:

This is another "investigation" photo that would appear, to me, be more incriminating to Anello than helpful.

 

 

Ignoring that the tape measure isn't exactly perpendicular...

 

Knowing how tall Anello is (5'11") and seeing how he leaned over the railing (with and without Chloe), is there any doubt whether or not Anello was at some point outside/past the window? Or would that be "physically impossible" for Sam?

[brillohead]

14 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

Knowing how tall Anello is (5'11") and seeing how he leaned over the railing (with and without Chloe), is there any doubt whether or not Anello was at some point outside/past the window? Or would that be "physically impossible" for Sam?

Those of us who have actually been at those windows have no doubt that it was absolutely physically possible for him to lean out the window without dangling his feet off the floor. 

I'm a whopping 5'2" tall and I can easily put my arm out the window.... this family's attorney is just making things up and playing with angles to make things look good for his lawsuit.

If it's so dangerously close that the baby just slipped right out of Anello's arms and through the window, how is it also sooooooo far away that it's physically impossible for Anello to look out the window? 

[mjkacmom]

8 hours ago, tonit964 said:

I'm certain most people would grieve the death of their child before contacting an attorney. They are not bombarded by attorneys and the media, the parents sought them out before they even laid their daughter to rest. In fact, they contacted the attorney THE.VERY.NEXT. DAY. who does that?  They are trying to get RCI to pay out a settlement when they are not to blame and badmouthing them every chance they get. The parents are disgusting.

 

How has this class of ship sailed for years and years, week in and week out with these windows and nothing like this has ever happened? If they were dangerous, it would have happened already.

The grandfather is the only one to blame. If he never lifted her OUT of the window and dropped her, she would be alive. This was 100% preventable.  

I sincerely doubt they contacted the attorney, a well known ambulance chaser who probably was at their side within 24 hours blaming the cruise line.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

For those who say/imply that the family "was not in their right minds" when they filed the lawsuit, don't forget the lawsuit was filed in December... MONTHS after the accident.  I'm not saying they wouldn't still be grieving, but surely at some point in those months, they would have had a moment of clarity to say it wasn't really RCI's fault. 

[deliver42]

Money, money, money. That's the only reason for the suit.

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, deliver42 said:

Money, money, money. That's the only reason for the suit.

Uh...isn't that the case for any civil suit?  Not really sure what your point is.

[compman9]

I am 5'10" and I have stood on that window frame and leaned out of the window

 

The photos of the family's team even have their 'man that is the same size as the grandad' standing with his feet below the window window frame 

 

Absolute nonsense, this who sorry affair

 

I still feel for the mum and dad, but also for the doctor that had to deal with the dead child and those that witnessed it

[tonit964]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

I sincerely doubt they contacted the attorney, a well known ambulance chaser who probably was at their side within 24 hours blaming the cruise line.

Even if that were true, they didn't have to hire him, especially an ambulance chaser.

[tonit964]

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

For those who say/imply that the family "was not in their right minds" when they filed the lawsuit, don't forget the lawsuit was filed in December... MONTHS after the accident.  I'm not saying they wouldn't still be grieving, but surely at some point in those months, they would have had a moment of clarity to say it wasn't really RCI's fault. 

They filed the lawsuit in December but hired the attorney immediately. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by tonit964
spelling error

[mjkacmom]

11 hours ago, alexkrn46 said:

My husband brought up a good point to me. Is there an insurance claim for accidental death for this child? My thought the grandfather was offered a plea deal if he confessed but that would probably void any accidental death claim. 

 

Personally if if this was an accident I would try to reduce any media attention which would bring pain to the parents, with a plea it would be quietly over. 

 

also I do not know I could forgive my parent for such a reckless act in such a short period of time.Seems like a very odd situation.

If there was an insurance policy it would be covered, why wouldn’t it?

 

26 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

Even if that were true, they didn't have to hire him, especially an ambulance chaser.

But we are not privy to what is going on behind closed doors, if family members are acting on their behalf and they are just going along with the motions. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

25 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

They filed the lawsuit in December but hired the attorney immediately. 

I'm not going to fault them for hiring an attorney.  With their background in the court system, I would assume it makes sense to make sure no evidence is destroyed, witnesses contact information is retained, etc.  Continuing the charade that RCI is as fault months later is reprehensible though IMO.  

[mayleeman]

Just a point for clarity: A civil suit in a tort case is always for damages. The law recognizes that no court ruling can ever make anything involving death or injury be as if the bad thing never happened, so money damages are used as a (poor) substitute. The goal is to both give some type of compensation to the victims, as well as to give an economic incentive for a wrongdoer to correct their conduct. 

 

Demands for large amounts of money in cases like this often reflect both that a horrible death has occurred, and the (alleged) monstrosity of the wrong complained about. The plaintiffs here also publicly at least have said their goal is to make ships safer, but I don't know if that is part of their actual court claim or just something they hope will be a consequence. Usually, anyone hoping to get a legal ruling compelling some type of action has to file for an injunction, which is not in this case and would be exponentially more complex.

 

So asking for money, even large amounts, reflects pretty much all anyone can do, and the seriousness of the case as well.

[tinkertwo]

Personally I feel the fact that the GF can not look the interviewers in the eye is pretty telling.  He never makes eye contact.  Not always the case but when people tell untruths they look down/around to help them avoid looking guilty where as looking away does just that.  

I don't know how they will find a unbiased jury if this does ever go to court.  

[grapau27]

2 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

For those who say/imply that the family "was not in their right minds" when they filed the lawsuit, don't forget the lawsuit was filed in December... MONTHS after the accident.  I'm not saying they wouldn't still be grieving, but surely at some point in those months, they would have had a moment of clarity to say it wasn't really RCI's fault. 

Probably the thought of a few million dollars from RC spurred them on.

There is no doubt it was the step grandfather's fault and it is shameful how they have reacted towards RC.

[tonit964]

6 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I'm not going to fault them for hiring an attorney.  With their background in the court system, I would assume it makes sense to make sure no evidence is destroyed, witnesses contact information is retained, etc.  Continuing the charade that RCI is as fault months later is reprehensible though IMO.  

I see your point.

With something as important as this, it seems as though they would need a little time to research an attorney before they just retained one right away. Unless, the mother knew this guy or someone she knew referred him to her? Those things we don't know. Them going to the media and appearing on several talk shows right after doesn't look good either. Take time to grieve and let the attorney do their thing. I think because they knew the GF was negligent, they went for public sympathy in the news.

[tonit964]

21 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

 

But we are not privy to what is going on behind closed doors, if family members are acting on their behalf and they are just going along with the motions. 

No, we're not. All we can do is have discussions on what we do know. The parents also went to the media and on talk shows right away and their focus was on how dangerous the ship is and how they are negligent for having windows that can open in a child's play area. The focus should have been on grieving their child and not getting public sympathy.

[SewMuch]

Regarding finding an unbiased jury, not everyone pays attention to the news. As cruisers, any cruise related story catches our attention but we probably all know people that are barely aware of this incident. (Although I will admit that in San Juan probably everyone knows about it). So I'm wondering - the criminal case will of course happen in Puerto Rico, but what about the Civil Law Suit?

[grapau27]

31 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

No, we're not. All we can do is have discussions on what we do know. The parents also went to the media and on talk shows right away and their focus was on how dangerous the ship is and how they are negligent for having windows that can open in a child's play area. The focus should have been on grieving their child and not getting public sympathy.

I agree,I think for most of us the loss of a close family member would leave us heartbroken and want to stay private to grieve.

 

[grapau27]

21 minutes ago, SewMuch said:

Regarding finding an unbiased jury, not everyone pays attention to the news. As cruisers, any cruise related story catches our attention but we probably all know people that are barely aware of this incident. (Although I will admit that in San Juan probably everyone knows about it). So I'm wondering - the criminal case will of course happen in Puerto Rico, but what about the Civil Law Suit?

If he is found guilty by the obvious video evidence surely there should be no civil law suit against RC who are totally innocent imo.

[Tapi]

54 minutes ago, tinkertwo said:

I don't know how they will find a unbiased jury if this does ever go to court.  

I bet that the voire dire process will start with this question by the prosecutor: “Have you ever sailed on a cruise ship, specially Royal Caribbean?”. If the answer is yes, the potential juror will most likely be eliminated by the prosecutor. They do NOT want a single person in that jury who knows how negligent you need to be and how out of your way you need to go to drop a child out of a cruise ship window. 

[grandgeezer]

7 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

If he is found guilty by the obvious video evidence surely there should be no civil law suit against RC who are totally innocent imo.

There would be. They are two different situations with no bearing on each other.

What about the obvious evidence in the OJ Simpson trial. There are times when innocent people are convicted and guilty people are set free.

[molsonschooner]

9 hours ago, brillohead said:

Those of us who have actually been at those windows have no doubt that it was absolutely physically possible for him to lean out the window without dangling his feet off the floor. 

I'm a whopping 5'2" tall and I can easily put my arm out the window.... this family's attorney is just making things up and playing with angles to make things look good for his lawsuit.

If it's so dangerously close that the baby just slipped right out of Anello's arms and through the window, how is it also sooooooo far away that it's physically impossible for Anello to look out the window? 

I am 5'11". I have leaned out those windows on the Freedom without dangling my feet off the floor. Almost lost my hat

[Tapi]

33 minutes ago, SewMuch said:

As cruisers, any cruise related story catches our attention but we probably all know people that are barely aware of this incident. (Although I will admit that in San Juan probably everyone knows about it). 

My family lives in Puerto Rico. EVERYBODY down there knows about this story. It’s been in the news incessantly, it’s widely discussed on various social media outlets, and the videos have even been dissected by a very popular TMZ-style TV show. It may also be harder to find a jury that’s unfamiliar with cruising since a significant percentage of people who live there have traveled by cruise ship, many on this particular ship.