Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[Aus Traveller]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, first, I have no knowledge of any claim that AC air gave "probable" infection to cabins.

 

The air that is vented from the cabin via the bathroom vent goes through ductwork that collects many cabins' exhaust, and then carries it up to the highest decks, where it is discharged, not out onto the balconies.  So, no, given the distance covered by the air exhausted from even the highest cabins to the point of exhaust, and then back to the balconies, there would not be "droplets" anymore, and environmental conditions (wind?) would make this transfer longer, or not at all.

 

Your second point is correct, that air from the passageway would flow into a cabin with the balcony door open.  But, again, you are ignoring the experts at WHO and CDC who say that aerosol transmission of this virus is limited to a 6 foot radius, and that once the droplets from a cough or sneeze breaks down, there is not enough concentration of virus to cause infection through inhalation.

Spokesmen from Princess and also the Japanese Ministry of Health have repeatedly said that the AC would not have caused the spread of infections. However, several people on this forum (probably well-meaning but not experts) have claimed repeatedly, that the virus spread through the ventilation system.

[arabrab]

41 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I would imagine those with positive tests were isolated on a different bus.  Unless the Japanese were in charge of the ground transport....

That would have been nice, but it wasn't how they did that. They were on the bus with the rest of the passengers. 😞

[milolii]

38 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I would imagine those with positive tests were isolated on a different bus.  Unless the Japanese were in charge of the ground transport....

https://abc30.com/5941032/
 

This passenger reports woman sitting next to her on the bus is positive.  Doesn’t say when she tested positive, though.  So don’t really know.  

[Psoque]

6 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Spokesmen from Princess and also the Japanese Ministry of Health have repeatedly said that the AC would not have caused the spread of infections. However, several people on this forum (probably well-meaning but not experts) have claimed repeatedly, that the virus spread through the ventilation system.

How do these "well-meaning but not experts" people know that the virus has spread through the ventilation system?  Or is it more like that they are afraid that the virus might be spreading through the ventilation system, and they are concerned? 

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Psoque said:

How do these "well-meaning but not experts" people know that the virus has spread through the ventilation system?  Or is it more like that they are afraid that the virus might be spreading through the ventilation system, and they are concerned? 

The people who stated that the virus was spreading through the ventilation system did not, and could not, know it for a fact, but they stated it that way. I feel that 'chengkp75' has explained how the ventilation works in the cabins and I feel doubly reassured that the virus was not spread that way.

 

When people such as David and Sally Abel tested positive only a couple of days ago, no-one knows how long they had the virus. He had reported tummy upsets and feeling very tired for days. In one of Sally's phone calls, David could be heard vomiting in the bathroom.

[Psoque]

The arguments about who sat next to whom on the bus to Haneda on the US evacuation is somewhat moot in my opinion.  All of these people, some with infection, some without, some testing positive, some testing negative (testing negative does not always mean not infected, by the way) in the same bus, same airport waiting area, and the same airplane (though the ones testing positive were eventually put into a make-shift isolation chamber).  That's enough for some of the uninfected to be exposed to the virus, especially seeing the pictures of some of the evacuees.   I don't think the masks were not fitting well on some of them for sure.  There should not be a big gap between the edge of the mask the the bridge of the nose, for example.  I am no privy to all of the discussions that led to this mass evacuation, but whether the isolation (not quarantine, isolation) on the ship worked or not, the whole mass evacuation did exposed more people to the infection, and some of the ambiguous statements from NIAID director is very telling about their obvious discomfort about the consequence of their decision.

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

FYI the report I watched said that these two tested negative in Japan prior to being  evacuated. Sorry again I have no link.

From what I read a couple of days ago, only passengers why tested negative were permitted to board the Australian evacuation plane. Following what medical experts have posted on here, I suggest that the two who have now tested positive did not have sufficient 'viral load' to test positive earlier.

[Psoque]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The people who stated that the virus was spreading through the ventilation system did not, and could not, know it for a fact, but they stated it that way. I feel that 'chengkp75' has explained how the ventilation works in the cabins and I feel doubly reassured that the virus was not spread that way.

 

When people such as David and Sally Abel tested positive only a couple of days ago, no-one knows how long they had the virus. He had reported tummy upsets and feeling very tired for days. In one of Sally's phone calls, David could be heard vomiting in the bathroom.

That's exactly my point.  I don't think any of us can say when these people tested positive was actually infected.  Despite this, there is this assumption that most of the infection onboard was due to poor isolation within the ship.  I don't think anybody can say that for sure.

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, em-sk said:

This morning there was an interview with the two government ministers that are in charge of the Canadian departments running the Canadian evacuation.  Some questions from reporters about why Canada is not taking back anyone who is infected the way the us did.  The answer  was two fold, they pose a risk to others on the aircraft and for their own safety it is not safe to transport them.  It is a long 9-10 hour flight and over such a time period someone can get very sick very quickly the best place for them is in a hospital under medical care.     

I my opinion, it was a sensible decision by the Canadians (and the Australians) not to have passengers who tested positive on their evacuation planes.

[MMDown Under]

56 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I saw that but there are also evacuees from Hubei also in isolation there at the same place and I couldn’t see where those two came from. 
 

Ah, that is a new abc report that wasn’t there first thing this morning. Thanks -bulldusthhh

Evacuees from Hubei have left quarantine and gone home all free of the virus.

All evacuees from Diamond Princess weren't tested positive in Japan before being flown to Darwin.  Now two have tested positive.  They are being kept isolated and are being sent to hospitals in their home states (SA & WA).

[AlyssaJames]

4 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

Evacuees from Hubei have left quarantine and gone home all free of the virus.

All evacuees from Diamond Princess weren't tested positive in Japan before being flown to Darwin.  Now two have tested positive.  They are being kept isolated and are being sent to hospitals in their home states (SA & WA).

Spent a while trying to remember what US states were SA and WA

 

It’s been a long day

[MMDown Under]

Just now, AlyssaJames said:

Spent a while trying to remember what US states were SA and WA

 

It’s been a long day

Do you know now?  Darwin was a clue!  South Australia and West Australia. 

[Pushka]

18 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

Evacuees from Hubei have left quarantine and gone home all free of the virus.

All evacuees from Diamond Princess weren't tested positive in Japan before being flown to Darwin.  Now two have tested positive.  They are being kept isolated and are being sent to hospitals in their home states (SA & WA).

Not the second batch into NT as they arrived on the 9th. So Monday. Only Christmas Island folk have been released. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Pushka

[rabidstoat]

17 minutes ago, AlyssaJames said:

Spent a while trying to remember what US states were SA and WA

 

It’s been a long day

 

South Alabama and West Alabama! Heh.

[glam mistress]

For the life of me, I just do not understand how some of the passengers were just allowed to disembark and walk around amongst others in Japan. I saw the new "warning" sheet for disembarking passengers today but what about the people from yesterday?

 

And now more confirmed cases in the US - of folks from the DP that took the evac flights home. 

 

There are apparently outbreaks now in two different Chinese prisons, which will be an interesting thing to watch as compared to the DP. All are examples of tight quarters and people who are "stuck" in place. 

[Pushka]

15 minutes ago, glam mistress said:

For the life of me, I just do not understand how some of the passengers were just allowed to disembark and walk around amongst others in Japan. I saw the new "warning" sheet for disembarking passengers today but what about the people from yesterday?

 

And now more confirmed cases in the US - of folks from the DP that took the evac flights home. 

 

There are apparently outbreaks now in two different Chinese prisons, which will be an interesting thing to watch as compared to the DP. All are examples of tight quarters and people who are "stuck" in place. 

And in Australia from the charter flight, one passenger who was negative on leaving the ship on Wednesday developed symptoms yesterday, and tested positive last night. Obviously she was in quarantine on arrival here. She is now being flown by medivac to SA (South Australia) where she lives. She is so lucky to have got that flight back to Australia but it means she was capable of spreading the virus on the ship, the bus and the flights back to Australia. Which of course means that likewise any passenger that has left the ship yesterday, today and in the future into Japan. I think this has been a massive fail and error by Japan’s Health Department. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Pushka

[bluesea321]

South Korea's cases have now doubled to 156, Japan has 94, and the Diamond is responsible for 634. This virus is a cruel beast, sad indeed.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

[icat2000]

1 hour ago, AlyssaJames said:

Spent a while trying to remember what US states were SA and WA

 

It’s been a long day

Because those are States in Australia - South Australia and Western Australia. 

[AlyssaJames]

8 minutes ago, icat2000 said:

Because those are States in Australia - South Australia and Western Australia. 

Yep, that’s the joke. I was poking fun at myself.

[glam mistress]

10 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

South Korea's cases have now doubled to 156, Japan has 94, and the Diamond is responsible for 634. This virus is a cruel beast, sad indeed.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

I think cruises in the region will be on hold for quite some time. Travel period, really. 

 

 

 

[bluesea321]

12 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Mr Calouri....  would have been provided with some basic info for his videos. Also note that the only time recirculated air was mentioned was in his first video, the others did not mentioned recirculation at all...

 

Oh no, he was not provided "some basic info" for his videos, there is no way that CCL would have allowed him to make a video without it being carefully vetted by both Legal and Engineering. This is elementary in all major corporations and is no doubt the case at Princess.

 

And think about it for a second, if the air in the cabins was not recirculated, if it was all fresh, it would have been very simple for him to so say in his subsequent videos. The "panic" that your referred to would have been stopped in its tracks with some simple wording "air is not recirculated in our cabins". His failure to so state says it all.

[OzKiwiJJ]

30 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Oh no, he was not provided "some basic info" for his videos, there is no way that CCL would have allowed him to make a video without it being carefully vetted by both Legal and Engineering. This is elementary in all major corporations and is no doubt the case at Princess.

 

And think about it for a second, if the air in the cabins was not recirculated, if it was all fresh, it would have been very simple for him to so say in his subsequent videos. The "panic" that your referred to would have been stopped in its tracks with some simple wording "air is not recirculated in our cabins". His failure to so state says it all.

But the air IS recirculated within each cabin, how else could you set the temperature to what suits you. No-one is disputing that. However air is not recirculated between cabins and that's where the "panic" lies - people assuming they will get infected if someone in another cabin has the virus.

[BulldustHHH]

3 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

Ah, that is a new abc report that wasn’t there first thing this morning

The story was updated during the day. I checked it early this morning and there were only a couple paragraphs. It's worth re-checking stories such as these online, especially if they have "more to come..." at the bottom. 

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I would imagine those with positive tests were isolated on a different bus.  Unless the Japanese were in charge of the ground transport....

 

They were already on the bus and on the way to the airport when authorities learned of the positive results.

 

Thus, they were not isolated (at least not by design) on a single bus.

[hal2008]

4 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Not sure if you all noticed the portable isolation chamber at the front of the plane.  Those with positive tests were isolated in there.  That chamber would have virus-level filters on the air exhaust.  And likely on the intake too.  You may need to zoom in a bit to see the airtight doors, etc.

 

 

 

When we saw this picture, impression given was that white container was the isolation area for the infected.

 

But as washington post report details, they were actually kept on separate rows separated by plastic curtains.

 

Hope that WaPo is indeed fake news on this topic and the container shown on picture was actually used.

Unfortunately, someone with some info confirmed that WaPo was correct and the container shown above was not used for these infected (but asymptomatic) passengers.